North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation

[IndianRhino]

I didn’t know Val had a breeding recommendation with Obert but considering she does have a bull to breed with now I’m not too concerned about her anyway when it comes to have a calf.

Well none of us know for sure that they have a breeding recommendation but it’s just a reasonable assumption. I’m slightly concerned that Val still hasn’t calved since she’s already 15 and Obert has been at EAF for all this time. Hopefully, it’s just because EAF hasn’t tried breeding them yet.

Where would be a good place to move Johnson though cause I agree he shouldn’t be breeding anymore.

As @Mr.Ivory said, Denver (once a few of their bulls are sent out) and perhaps even Dickerson Park would be suitable new homes for Johnson.

But they could use Colonials sperm to artificially inseminate other females couldn’t they?

They could but they would prefer natural breeding (like all zoos) and they have Romeo as their proven natural breeder so unfortunately Colonel hasn’t been used for breeding. At least his maternal half-sister Natasha has a ton of descendants, hopefully his paternal half-brother Obert begins breeding as well.

 

[John Marchwick]

They could which would be great considering his genetic value but for to long zoos have relied on AI to breed their cows.

But that might not be a bad thing given in the case of Colonial. Not to mention those girls at Fort Worth Belle and Bluebonnet have very valuable genetics and they’ve artificially inseminate Bluebonnet before so I know it can be done.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

But that might not be a bad thing given in the case of Colonial. Not to mention those girls at Fort Worth Belle and Bluebonnet have very valuable genetics and they’ve artificially inseminate Bluebonnet before so I know it can be done.

It can be done but I doubt they would want to spend a large amount of money when they have a proven bull on site, it just wouldn't make sense to do so

 

[John Marchwick]

Well none of us know for sure that they have a breeding recommendation but it’s just a reasonable assumption. I’m slightly concerned that Val still hasn’t calved since she’s already 15 and Obert has been at EAF for all this time. Hopefully, it’s just because EAF hasn’t tried breeding them yet.


As @Mr.Ivory said, Denver (once a few of their bulls are sent out) and perhaps even Dickerson Park would be suitable new homes for Johnson.


They could but they would prefer natural breeding (like all zoos) and they have Romeo as their proven natural breeder so unfortunately Colonel hasn’t been used for breeding. At least his maternal half-sister Natasha has a ton of descendants, hopefully his paternal half-brother Obert begins breeding as well.

well half sister isn’t good enough as we need Colonial breeding. I know natural breeding is preferred but I also know that 2 of the births in the Asian Elephant population in 2021 were a result of artificial insemination. Regarding Val I think we need more information first in my opinion before we worry about her. Frankly I’m the most concerned about Maliha, Jade, and Priya at the Saint Louis Zoo as Maliha is older than Val, Jades the same age as Val, and those girls need bred ASAP.

 

[John Marchwick]

It can be done but I doubt they would want to spend a large amount of money when they have a proven bull on site, it just wouldn't make sense to do so

true but I’m just saying it’s a possibility is all. I think they should utitlize Romeo too for breeding obviously as he himself is genetically valuable as well.

 

[Jambo]

well half sister isn’t good enough as we need Colonial breeding. I know natural breeding is preferred but I also know that 2 of the births in the Asian Elephant population in 2021 were a result of artificial insemination. Regarding Val I think we need more information first in my opinion before we worry about her. Frankly I’m the most concerned about Maliha, Jade, and Priya at the Saint Louis Zoo as Maliha is older than Val, Jades the same age as Val, and those girls need bred ASAP.

Much like it’s been mentioned before, Saint Louis dosent have the space to further breed. With nine elephants, It would be best if the four older cows (Sri, Donna) were sent away and Raja retired to a bcehlor group. This would leave space for Saint Louis to import a new bull and breed from Rani, Maliha and Jade. Maliha’s currently sixteen so if they act now, they could still ensure she has a chance to breed.

true but I’m just saying it’s a possibility is all. I think they should utitlize Romeo too for breeding obviously as he himself is genetically valuable as well.

Yes, it’s a possibility but considering they have a proven bull on site who’s also rather valuable, I’d imagine there’s no need for AI right now.

 

[John Marchwick]

Much like it’s been mentioned before, Saint Louis dosent have the space to further breed. With nine elephants, It would be best if the four older cows (Sri, Donna) were sent away and Raja retired to a bcehlor group. This would leave space for Saint Louis to import a new bull and breed from Rani, Maliha and Jade. Maliha’s currently sixteen so if they act now, they could still ensure she has a chance to breed.



Yes, it’s a possibility but considering they have a proven bull on site who’s also rather valuable, I’d imagine there’s no need for AI right now.

I think Saint Louis currently still has the space to have 1-2 calves but regardless I agree with both. They need to send Sri, Donna, and Pearl I think anyways to the Dickerson Park Zoo. They can NOT move Ellie as that’s Rani, Maliha and Priyas mother and Jades grandmother. Raja should just not be bred anymore but the cut off date is 24 so we’re still a few years away but they should in fact Saint Louis Zoo needs to act now.

 

[Jambo]

I think Saint Louis currently still has the space to have 1-2 calves but regardless I agree with both. They need to send Sri, Donna, and Pearl I think anyways to the Dickerson Park Zoo. They can NOT move Ellie as that’s Rani, Maliha and Priyas mother and Jades grandmother.

They do have the space for another calf, and these girls are rather unrepresented within the region, so I’d imagine if it gets to another few years or so and these girls still haven’t fallen pregnant yet, they’ll have to resort to AI.

Sri, Donna and Pearl could go to a lot of parks. Dickerson seems one of the most likely options. LA is another option off the top of my head.

This would leave Saint Louis with five cows, which would be good enough alongside a bull. If the herd continues to grow though, especially with female calves, splitting the herd may need to be considered.

 

[ZCChip]

Don’t forget the Dickerson park has two bulls. Would they be able to accommodate three more older cows?

 

[Jambo]

Don’t forget the Dickerson park has two bulls. Would they be able to accommodate three more older cows?

Yes, I believe so if they can be successfully integrated with Moola and Patience. I’m not sure how they’ll go if they can’t be integrated though as Dickerson would have to hold their elephants across four groups, which wouldn’t really work well.

 

[John Marchwick]

They do have the space for another calf, and these girls are rather unrepresented within the region, so I’d imagine if it gets to another few years or so and these girls still haven’t fallen pregnant yet, they’ll have to resort to AI.

Sri, Donna and Pearl could go to a lot of parks. Dickerson seems one of the most likely options. LA is another option off the top of my head.

This would leave Saint Louis with five cows, which would be good enough alongside a bull. If the herd continues to grow though, especially with female calves, splitting the herd may need to be considered.

Ya splitting the herd is definitely not a good idea. That would do serious damage to the elephants mental health as elephants live in family groups.

 

[Zoofan15]

Ya splitting the herd is definitely not a good idea. That would do serious damage to the elephants mental health as elephants live in family groups.

Splits can potentially be undertaken as long as matrilineal lines are preserved. Splits can even occur in wild herds when they grow too large - again with one point matrilineal lines fracturing off e.g. a cow and her daughter; while her sister and nieces remain in the herd.

 

[Jambo]

Splits can potentially be undertaken as long as matrilineal lines are preserved. Splits can even occur in wild herds when they grow too large - again with one point matrilineal lines fracturing off e.g. a cow and her daughter; while her sister and nieces remain in the herd.

Dublin as example of a zoo that plans to undertake this.

Saint Louis could potentially split Rani, Jade and any future daughters from both of these girls as this is a technically one matrilineal line. The other group would that would stay would be Ellie, Maliha and Priya. It allows Ellie to remain with her two youngest daughters, whilst her oldest daughter, who now has her own line, can be separated. This will have to be inevitable in the future if Saint Louis wish to continue breeding.

 

[ZCChip]

It looks like if the plans is to breed Beco to the Ringling girls, it has been put on hold.

Get well, Beco!

 

[John Marchwick]

It looks like if the plans is to breed Beco to the Ringling girls, it has been put on hold.

Get well, Beco!

I really do think Beco will recover from EEHV to be honest. The most vulnerable age category for elephants that die of the virus is 1-8. Considering Beco is 13 he should be able to fight the virus off on his own but it’s better to be safe than sorry is my attitude and I hope Columbus is taking his health very seriously. EEHV is an unpredictable virus as we continue to learn.

 

[ZCChip]

I really do think Beco will recover from EEHV to be honest. The most vulnerable age category for elephants that die of the virus is 1-8. Considering Beco is 13 he should be able to fight the virus off on his own but it’s better to be safe than sorry is my attitude and I hope Columbus is taking his health very seriously. EEHV is an unpredictable virus as we continue to learn.

i agree. His health is the top priority right now. But he should be fine. But I wonder what triggered it? He’s past the weaning stage and should have all of the antibodies from his mom.

 

[John Marchwick]

i agree. His health is the top priority right now. But he should be fine. But I wonder what triggered it? He’s past the weaning stage and should have all of the antibodies from his mom.

I know in the African elephant population anyways some of the latest EEHV cases in African elephants were older than 8. For example Kedar, Zahara, Ivory at the Indianapolis Zoo and Lucas at Toledo Zoo to name a few.

 

[Jambo]

Guys, Omaha Zoos director Dennis Pate confirmed there are 6 African Elephants currently pregnant in the United States all due within the next year or two. Go to the 3:58 minute mark on this YouTube video as that’s where he mentions the news. We know for sure 2 of those girls pregnant are Jayei and Lolly. I’ll say no more as this news would better be talked about on the Northern American Asian and African Elephant Population discussion thread.

He also mentions half will be born at Ohama, so there’s another female at Ohama in pregnant (possibly Omma).

In regards to the other three, they could be the Sedgewick girls and/or Nolwazi and Amahle at Fresno.

 

[John Marchwick]

BREAKING: Dennis Pate, the director of the Omaha Zoo announced today that there are 6 African Elephant females currently pregnant in the United States all due within the next year or two. Prior to this announcement we knew of one of six and that’s Lolly at the Omaha Zoo who’s due in February - March 2023. However another one of those 6 females currently pregnant is Jayei, who’s also at the Omaha Zoo and she’s due with her new calf in August 2023.

That being said, we know there are 4 additional pregnant African Elephant females according to Dennis. The question is who could those other 4 elephants be? I know Litsemba did mate with Mabu a few months ago so she’s a likely contender and Omma at the Omaha Zoo who’s also Jayeis daughter at this point it’s safe to say I think is going to get pregnant and have a calf of her own in the very near future. So Litsemba and Omma are most likely pregnant as well and those zoos just haven’t said anything. But that still leaves out 2 others. Here’s a list of African elephants that are currently confirmed pregnant, who are most likely pregnant, and who’s most likely not pregnant.

Confirmed African Elephant Pregnancies.
1.) Lolly at the Omaha Zoo (due between February-March of 2023).
2.) Jayei at the Omaha Zoo (due sometime in August in 2023).

African Elephants Most Likely Pregnant.
1,) Omma - Omaha Zoo
2.) Litsemba - Reid Park Zoo
3.) Nolwazi and her daughter Amahle - Fresno Chaffee Zoo
4.) Zola and Mlilo - Dallas Zoo
5.) any of Sedgwicks girls.

African Elephants most likely not pregnant
1.) Ndula, Umngani, Khosi, Swazi, Qinisa, and Phakamile at the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.
2.) Batir - North Carolina Zoo
3.) Zahara - Indianapolis Zoo
4.) None of Disney Animal Kingdoms reproductive females
5.) None of Zoo Tampas reproductive females
6.) Victoria.

@IndianRhino I hope you can forgive me when it comes to me constantly asking you questions it feels like but who do you think are most likely candidates as to which of the additional 4 African elephant females are currently pregnant in the United States?

 

[John Marchwick]

He also mentions half will be born at Ohama, so there’s another female at Ohama in pregnant (possibly Omma).

In regards to the other three, they could be the Sedgewick girls and/or Nolwazi and Amahle at Fresno.

Omma would have to be the only option at Omaha because that’s the only female that hasn’t had a calf this year nor that we know of that’s currently pregnant. They only have 5 females and Claire and Kiki both just had calves this year in 2022 and with Jayei and Lolly both currently pregnant that means Omma is the only one left. The zoo could be hesitant to announce her pregnancy cause she could be having complications like Kiki did or they don’t feel comfortable enough yet announcing her pregnancy.