North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation

[John Marchwick]

I just thought realized something when writing those last 2 posts. We have previously talked about on this thread the current number of confirmed and possible Asian Elephant pregnancies in the United States. The African Elephant population has a significant number of more current confirmed pregnancies in the United States and the Asian Elephant population only has one and that’s Mali at the Rosamond Gifford Zoo in New York. Seems as though now we switched places with the Asian Elephant Population and the African Elephant Population just now with the overall population in African Elephants there’s now real potential for growth and the Asian Elephant Population we’ve had 2 deaths of EEHV this year in the population, we have the good news about Malis pregnancy I will say, but I’m left with more questions than answers now about the Asian Elephant population so to speak.

this sounds like a very unlikely possibility but I remember @Hyak_II stating that he knew a number of Asian elephants currently pregnant in the United States and this was a year ago anyway when I learned of this information and I think he posted that news around a year ago as well. That being said is it possible 2022-2023 will be good reproductive years for both the African Elephant Population and the Asian Elephant Population?

 

[Zoofan15]

I just thought realized something when writing those last 2 posts. We have previously talked about on this thread the current number of confirmed and possible Asian Elephant pregnancies in the United States. The African Elephant population has a significant number of more current confirmed pregnancies in the United States and the Asian Elephant population only has one and that’s Mali at the Rosamond Gifford Zoo in New York. Seems as though now we switched places with the Asian Elephant Population and the African Elephant Population just now with the overall population in African Elephants there’s now real potential for growth and the Asian Elephant Population we’ve had 2 deaths of EEHV this year in the population, we have the good news about Malis pregnancy I will say, but I’m left with more questions than answers now about the Asian Elephant population so to speak.

this sounds like a very unlikely possibility but I remember @Hyak_II stating that he knew a number of Asian elephants currently pregnant in the United States and this was a year ago anyway when I learned of this information and I think he posted that news around a year ago as well. That being said is it possible 2022-2023 will be good reproductive years for both the African Elephant Population and the Asian Elephant Population?

There could potentially be a number of 2023 pregnancies thay have yet to be announced. It's not uncommon for zoos to delay the pregnancies until a few months before the birth; and some have gone unannounced full stop.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

Here is the possible breeding plan for Omaha, it would make more sense for Omaha to have any calves born in pairs as it allows the herd to better support one another.

Keeping Jayei and Omma in seperate breeding rotations means they're in a better position to offer each other support versus both having newborns at the same time.

2024- Omma

2026 - Kiki, Claire, Jayei

2027 - Omma, Lolly

2030 - Lolly, Omma, Kiki

2031 - Jayei, Claire

 

[John Marchwick]

There could potentially be a number of 2023 pregnancies thay have yet to be announced. It's not uncommon for zoos to delay the pregnancies until a few months before the birth; and some have gone unannounced full stop.

that’s true. We have Mali who’s due this fall, Belle at Fort Worth who’s most likely pregnant and is due in 2023, Shanti at the Houston Zoo who’s most likely pregnant and due in 2023. I guess only time will tell and will see how 2023 plays out for Asian Elephants and how the next 2 years play out for African Elephants.

 

[John Marchwick]

Here is the possible breeding plan for Omaha, it would make more sense for Omaha to have any calves born in pairs as it allows the herd to better support one another.

Keeping Jayei and Omma in seperate breeding rotations means they're in a better position to offer each other support versus both having newborns at the same time.

2024- Omma

2026 - Kiki, Claire, Jayei

2027 - Omma, Lolly

2030 - Lolly, Omma, Kiki

2031 - Jayei, Claire

I suppose that could work but what’s your take on the six confirmed African Elephant pregnancies currently in the United States?

 

[Mr.Ivory]

I suppose that could work but what’s your take on the six confirmed African Elephant pregnancies currently in the United States?

My take on the six pregnant female's

Confirmed African Elephant Pregnancies.

• Lolly - Omaha Henry Doorly Zoo
• Jayei - Omaha Henry Doorly Zoo

African Elephants Most Likely Pregnant.

• Omma - Omaha Henry Doorly Zoo
• Litsemba - Reid Park Zoo
• Nolwazi - Fresno Chaffee Zoo
  
• Amahle - Fresno Chaffee Zoo

 

[John Marchwick]

My take on the six pregnant female's

Confirmed African Elephant Pregnancies.

• Lolly - Omaha Henry Doorly Zoo
• Jayei - Omaha Henry Doorly Zoo

African Elephants Most Likely Pregnant.

• Omma - Omaha Henry Doorly Zoo
• Litsemba - Reid Park Zoo
• Nolwazi - Fresno Chaffee Zoo
  
• Amahle - Fresno Chaffee Zoo

It does appear 2023 might be a big year for both African and Asian Elephant populations.

 

[Jambo]

that’s true. We have Mali who’s due this fall, Belle at Fort Worth who’s most likely pregnant and is due in 2023, Shanti at the Houston Zoo who’s most likely pregnant and due in 2023. I guess only time will tell and will see how 2023 plays out for Asian Elephants and how the next 2 years play out for African Elephants.

There's also Rose Tu at Oregan, and even maybe Maharani..alongside maybe some of the Ringling cows.

My take on the six pregnant female's

Confirmed African Elephant Pregnancies.

• Lolly - Omaha Henry Doorly Zoo
• Jayei - Omaha Henry Doorly Zoo

African Elephants Most Likely Pregnant.

• Omma - Omaha Henry Doorly Zoo
• Litsemba - Reid Park Zoo
• Nolwazi - Fresno Chaffee Zoo
  
• Amahle - Fresno Chaffee Zoo

I think Litsemba is highely likely pregnant again, and it would make sense if both of Fresno's girls are pregnant too. They'd likely bred both at the same time rather than one at a time.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

There's also Rose Tu at Oregan, and even maybe Maharani..alongside maybe some of the Ringling cows.



I think Litsemba is highely likely pregnant again, and it would make sense if both of Fresno's girls are pregnant too. They'd likely bred both at the same time rather than one at a time.

I agree it would make sense for some Rinigling cows like Bonnie, and Mable to be mated naturally with Charlie before heading to WOCC, while other females like Angelica, Sara and Asha be AI'd. Along side Shanti, Belle, and some ALS'S cows are all possibly pregnant as well

Given the success rate of a mature breeding bull like Mabu Litsemba is 99.9% pregnant, and their is also the possibility of some of Sedgwick's cows be pregnant, and even Sukiri as well though this is unlikely

 

[John Marchwick]

There's also Rose Tu at Oregan, and even maybe Maharani..alongside maybe some of the Ringling cows.



I think Litsemba is highely likely pregnant again, and it would make sense if both of Fresno's girls are pregnant too. They'd likely bred both at the same time rather than one at a time.

Rose Tu I think is kind of a wild card to
My understanding but only time will tell I suppose if she is or not.

 

[IndianRhino]

I agree that Omma and Litsemba are very likely to be the other two (not sure why Omaha doesn’t just announce that Omma’s pregnant if they already know though).

Would be very nice if Amahle and Nolwazi are pregnant as they are valuable and so is Moose. Though, last I heard (from a Fresno keeper on the site), neither had fallen pregnant but that could’ve changed recently.

Zola and Mlilo at Dallas would be really nice too but apparently, Tendaji has had trouble breeding the girls or something like that (not 100% sure what’s going on there). Also there are the Sedgwick girls, I’m confused why Ajani has failed to get any of them pregnant so far while Callee has done such a fantastic job. I guess we’ll find out eventually!

My take on pregnant Asian cows would be Belle, Shanti, Rozie, Rani (STL), Rose-tu, a few of the ALS cows, and maybe Maharani, and a few cows via AI (at White Oak, Columbus, STL, etc). Though, most of these are much less likely.

 

[Jambo]

Rose Tu I think is kind of a wild card to
My understanding but only time will tell I suppose if she is or not.

It's interesting that Rose Tu hasn't bred yet. I would've thought her and Samson would've been bred already, but obviously they haven't been recommended. I don't think it's anything to do with her reproductive health or Samson's fertility.

I agree that Omma and Litsemba are very likely to be the other two (not sure why Omaha doesn’t just announce that Omma’s pregnant if they already know though).

This could be due to her possibly being very early on, where survival rates can be up in the air. Once she reaches around 12 months, maybe then will an announcement be made.

 

[E Maximus]

It's interesting that Rose Tu hasn't bred yet. I would've thought her and Samson would've been bred already, but obviously they haven't been recommended. I don't think it's anything to do with her reproductive health or Samson's fertility.

I have personally seen Samson and Rose Tu breeding multiple times on personal visits. They definitely have a recommendation to breed, it just to our knowledge hasn't been successful as of yet. If I'm correct he was moved on an SSP recommendation to breed with Rose in 2018.

 

[John Marchwick]

I agree that Omma and Litsemba are very likely to be the other two (not sure why Omaha doesn’t just announce that Omma’s pregnant if they already know though).

Would be very nice if Amahle and Nolwazi are pregnant as they are valuable and so is Moose. Though, last I heard (from a Fresno keeper on the site), neither had fallen pregnant but that could’ve changed recently.

Zola and Mlilo at Dallas would be really nice too but apparently, Tendaji has had trouble breeding the girls or something like that (not 100% sure what’s going on there). Also there are the Sedgwick girls, I’m confused why Ajani has failed to get any of them pregnant so far while Callee has done such a fantastic job. I guess we’ll find out eventually!

My take on pregnant Asian cows would be Belle, Shanti, Rozie, Rani (STL), Rose-tu, a few of the ALS cows, and maybe Maharani, and a few cows via AI (at White Oak, Columbus, STL, etc). Though, most of these are much less likely.

I heard Ajani at some point within the last year mated with some of the girls at Sedgwick County Zoo. Maybe he possibly gotten some of the girls finally pregnant? He’s only been there since 2019 if I recall as well and most of the girls there only recently hit sexual maturity.

 

[Jambo]

I have personally seen Samson and Rose Tu breeding multiple times on personal visits. They definitely have a recommendation to breed, it just to our knowledge hasn't been successful as of yet. If I'm correct he was moved on an SSP recommendation to breed with Rose in 2018.

I’ve heard that from regulars too. I believe he’s mated with Chandra too.

Is Samundra still living with the matriarchal herd?

 

[IndianRhino]

I’ve heard that from regulars too. I believe he’s mated with Chandra too.

There are a few videos on YouTube itself of Samson and Rose-tu breeding. I’ve seen a video of Chendra being bred by one of the bulls, not sure which one though. Apparently they wanted Samudra and Chendra to breed at one point, but unfortunately it never resulted in a birth. That would’ve been a very genetically valuable calf.

Is Samundra still living with the matriarchal herd?

Samson and Samudra are usually together, separate from the females. However, both bulls are mixed with the girls relatively often afaik.

 

[Jambo]

There are a few videos on YouTube itself of Samson and Rose-tu breeding. I’ve seen a video of Chendra being bred by one of the bulls, not sure which one though. Apparently they wanted Samudra and Chendra to breed at one point, but unfortunately it never resulted in a birth. That would’ve been a very genetically valuable calf.


Samson and Samudra are usually together, separate from the females. However, both bulls are mixed with the girls relatively often afaik.

Yes, I've heard that too re. Samundra and Chendra. Chendra is capable of of getting pregnant, but i'm not sure they're willing to bred her with Samson and will likely continue efforts with Samundra. There's still hope breeding wise.

That's good to know as as far as I was aware, Samundra was still with the girls around the time Samson arrived. Samundra would've been ten which is relatively late for a male to leave his matriarchal herd.

 

[IndianRhino]

Chendra is capable of of getting pregnant, but i'm not sure they're willing to bred her with Samson and will likely continue efforts with Samundra. There's still hope breeding wise.

I’m not too confident that Chendra will successfully birth any calves at this point - she’s about 29 years old and has never given birth (she had a miscarriage in 2019 but that’s about it). It would be fantastic if she and Samudra produce a calf but I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Jambo]

I’m not too confident that Chendra will successfully birth any calves at this point - she’s about 29 years old and has never given birth (she had a miscarriage in 2019 but that’s about it). It would be fantastic if she and Samudra produce a calf but I’m not holding my breath.

That’s very true, but there’s no reason why she can’t get pregnant again. Just because she’s never given birth (due to a single miscarriage) dosen’t mean she won’t. She had the miscarriage at 26 too which is quite old for a first time mother. I’m thinking her age may have contributed to her miscarriage although we’ll see within the next few years whether she’ll fall pregnant again. I have hope she will, although I agree with you, I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Elephantelephant]

I heard Ajani at some point within the last year mated with some of the girls at Sedgwick County Zoo. Maybe he possibly gotten some of the girls finally pregnant? He’s only been there since 2019 if I recall as well and most of the girls there only recently hit sexual maturity.

I think it is quite logical that none of the Sedgwick County cows are pregnant yet, as most were born around 2010 (except Simunye), so they are still quite young to have a calf. I kind of have a feeling that we could soon hear a similar amount of pregnancies as in Omaha, so hopefully it will happen.