EEHV is definitely NOT primarily transmitted sexually.
North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation
- Thread starter IndianRhino
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EEHV is definitely NOT primarily transmitted sexually.
According to the Omaha Zoo, Kiki’s calf that was just born and Claire’s calf that’s due in a matter of weeks will be the only elephants that will be or already had been born in the United States for this year. I think the zoo meant they’re the only African Elephants as Asha is due to have a calf here soon but she’s an Asian Elephant. So unfortunately, I think Claire’s and Kiki’s calves will be the only ones born in 2022
New Bull? Do you know who? The only reason I thought they were pregnant meaning Rudy and Sunny was because I heard the girls were showing mammary development. Not to mention there’s a number of Asian Elephants pregnant currently across the US according to @NOVAElephantEnthusiast . Did Columbus tell you they’re getting a new bull? Also, zoos do lie on occasion about their animals when it comes to something like this. I don’t know, what I’m saying is whoever gave you that information that doesn’t make any sense nor give any explanation why Rudy and Sunny have been showing mammary development and Columbus not to mention already has two bulls? And just HOW long exactly are they waiting for in regards to Rudy. She’s turning 20 this year and should’ve had numerous calves by now
Mai Thai
Well-Known Member
Female elephants often show mammary gland development when there is a new calf in the herd. I was at the zoo the other day and their mammary glands were normal. I know the maybe future bull but I will not share any more information about the topic. My apologies.
oh good. So they’re not pregnant and therefore off the list. Great, so Rudy and Sunny are gonna go infertile, with no male to mate with, great fantastic. Then those “number of Asian Elephant Females pregnant” aren’t there nor is Rosanna included in that list. Asha is one of them, everyone saids Rose Tu is too but. Maybe Jade and Maliha then? Regarding that bull Columbus should’ve gotten one there like yesterday but oh well. Rudy I know is going to go infertile now with never producing any offspring. They waited too long and she’s now what 20
Never say never. A 38 year old cow in Asia gave birth to her first calf this past Christmas. Granted it took a very long time for her maternal instincts to kick in, but still. A cow at the koln zoo in Germany had her first calf at the age of I think 32 a few years back as well. Kali at Zlin and Suriki at ppg both had their first calves after age 24 as well.
Statistically the odds aren’t great for cows having a first calf after age 24 (and honestly I would probably bump that down to 18-20 personally), but it is by no means impossible, and a number of females have proven that.
Statistically the odds aren’t great for cows having a first calf after age 24 (and honestly I would probably bump that down to 18-20 personally), but it is by no means impossible, and a number of females have proven that.
@Hyak_II from a realistic standpoint with Rudy I’d just say no at this point. Columbus waited too long. Sunny still could but they needed both of those girls breeding asap. I don’t know, but I’m starting to doubt that what @NOVAElephantEnthusiast may not be true. Regarding those bulls Columbus has I’d send Beco to the Denver Zoo to join their bachelor herd and bring either Jake or Chuck from Denver to Columbus
Rudy is still 20, the cutoff age is 24-25 and there are numerous examples of cows giving birth for the first time in their early 20s so I definitely wouldn't say she's simply a "no". NOVA never said either of the girls is pregnant, all he said was that he knew of a number of pregnant cows within the population which I don't find too surprising and I highly doubt he would lie about this type of thing. Jake and Chuck seem a little too young in my opinion, and they aren't particularly genetically valuable or anything so I don't think the SSP would recommend they breed quite yet.
ok but we don’t for sure Rudy is one of those cows that’s gonna have a calf after the age of 24. I know everyone wants to be optimistic but we have to be realistic. It’s this same attitude I witnessed with Jasmine. Everyone said she would have a better outcome than thorn cause she was on the older side when she caught EEHV but the virus killed her. I’m not saying @NOVAElephantEnthusiast lied. Im not convinced whoever told him that information was correct was the point I was trying to make. But if Columbus is bringing a new bull who do you think it could be? Not meant to be rude but I’m genuinely curious
You realize she's not 24 yet, right? She still has 4 more years and there is still a possibility she will give birth within that time frame. If she was in her mid 20s what you are saying would make sense but she's just about to turn 20 and there's absolutely nothing wrong with hoping something good happens within the next few years
If he didn't trust his source, I doubt he would post it. What makes you so sure his source is incorrect? There's absolutely no proof that there aren't a few cows that are currently pregnant... just because Rudy and Sunny aren't doesn't mean Rose-tu, Mali, Rozanna, Rani, Belle, some of the Ringling/White Oak girls, etc. aren't.
I'm not at liberty to disclose who Columbus' new potential bull is but I will say it wasn't a bull I was expecting.
@Animals R AMAZING! regarding the pregnancies, there’s been no announcements and right now the only confirmed pregnancy we know of is Asha. Rosanna is NOT pregnant, I can confirm that with the zoo (if they’re telling the truth…). Rani I highly doubt is pregnant considering she just had a calf 2 years ago. I’m hoping they used artificial insemination for Jade and Maliha. Priya is now at breeding age too. Mali I can confirm was mating with Doc in 2021 and Belle was mating with Romeo in 2021. So Belle and Mali based off of breeding activity in 2021 I believe are both due in 2023. I never thought of ringling and white oak but at the same time I was hoping pregnancies of Asian elephants would’ve been in more traditional zoos. (Like Rudy and Sunny at Columbus for instance). I wish Saint Louis would just get a new bull already. Why is Columbus getting a new bull? Surely they’d have to get rid of one of there’s in exchange for a new one?
@Animals R AMAZING! regarding Rudy I’m VERY annoyed how Columbus has handled that situation. I also do not trust those people as far as I can throw them. And I’m very skeptical if Rudy can get pregnant after the cutoff age. Same goes for Batir at North Carolina (yes she’s an African Elephant but you get the point).
Asian elephant calf born at Oklahoma City Zoo
Now that Asha has finally had her calf (I’m very excited it was a boy cause that’s Ashas first male calf), they’re now no confirmed Asian Elephant pregnancies in the United States. I know there’s Rose Tu but no one knows the full story there on that one and for all we know she could not be pregnant just like I Rudy and Sunny turned out NOT to be pregnant. Is their any actual evidence we currently have of Asian elephant females that are believed to be pregnant in AZA accredited zoos aside from Rose Tu
Now that Asha has finally had her calf (I’m very excited it was a boy cause that’s Ashas first male calf), they’re now no confirmed Asian Elephant pregnancies in the United States. I know there’s Rose Tu but no one knows the full story there on that one and for all we know she could not be pregnant just like I Rudy and Sunny turned out NOT to be pregnant. Is their any actual evidence we currently have of Asian elephant females that are believed to be pregnant in AZA accredited zoos aside from Rose Tu
I have been reading over this thread for a little bit now. With the Asian program, I guess I would say it's satisfactory. It certainly could be better, but it's not too bad in my opinion. The African program on the other hand, I feel like has so much potential that is not being utilized. We have these new bloodlines appearing in the states, and yet we haven't been utilizing this opportunity that we have been given. Now will I pretend I could do better? No, because I have no idea how best to run a breeding program, I'm sure that transferring elephants around is really difficult and probably why it hasn't been done super often. But this is just my two cents from an observer.
Zoo, BioPark Society expand fight against virus that killed elephants
Given this news, it doesn’t seem like the Albuquerque BioPark Zoo is phasing our their elephants anytime soon. I do hope though the zoo finishes building this BEFORE Rosanna has a calf again (if she ever has one). Given she’s had 3 but all died of EEHV the next calf she has cannot have the same outcome as those 3. I wish though the zoo would stop breeding her with bulls related to Calvin. Wishful thinking on my part but moving on.
Between 2010 - 2019 however we have very few bulls that are still alive that were born in AZA accredited institutions in the US. The only Asian Elephant bulls I know of born in that time frame are Shanti’s two sons at the Houston Zoo and Bowie at the Fort Worth Zoo that are still alive. I have a feeling Teddy (born at the Houston Zoo in 2021), Frankie (born at the Columbus Zoo in 2021) and Brazos (born at the Fort Worth Zoo in 2021) will all be used for breeding as mature, adult bulls. My reasoning behind it is this.
Teddys parents are both wild born (Thailand and Tess) and it’s their only son the parents have had together. Frankie is Franks currently only living child and Brazos to my understanding is one of the most genetically Valuable elephants in the US. My point is those 3 bulls in particular I think are ideal candidates to be used for breeding in the future in AZA accredited zoos as they get older. Regarding Columbus getting a new bull I truly hope the new bull isn’t related to Calvin’s or Onyx’s bloodline. Saint Louis needs a new bull too asap in my opinion.
in regards to pregnancies we have no confirmed Asian Elephant pregnancies in the US currently. As far as pregnant Asian Elephants due this year in AZA accredited zoos Im hearing Rose Tu is most likely pregnant and due this year. Maybe Jade and Maliha were artificially inseminated at the Saint Louis Zoo but I’m not sure about that one. I do know 2023 that Mali at the Rosamond Griffith Zoo and Belle at the Fort Worth Zoo were breeding in 2021 and are possibly due in 2023 but other than that I got nothing
Given this news, it doesn’t seem like the Albuquerque BioPark Zoo is phasing our their elephants anytime soon. I do hope though the zoo finishes building this BEFORE Rosanna has a calf again (if she ever has one). Given she’s had 3 but all died of EEHV the next calf she has cannot have the same outcome as those 3. I wish though the zoo would stop breeding her with bulls related to Calvin. Wishful thinking on my part but moving on.
Between 2010 - 2019 however we have very few bulls that are still alive that were born in AZA accredited institutions in the US. The only Asian Elephant bulls I know of born in that time frame are Shanti’s two sons at the Houston Zoo and Bowie at the Fort Worth Zoo that are still alive. I have a feeling Teddy (born at the Houston Zoo in 2021), Frankie (born at the Columbus Zoo in 2021) and Brazos (born at the Fort Worth Zoo in 2021) will all be used for breeding as mature, adult bulls. My reasoning behind it is this.
Teddys parents are both wild born (Thailand and Tess) and it’s their only son the parents have had together. Frankie is Franks currently only living child and Brazos to my understanding is one of the most genetically Valuable elephants in the US. My point is those 3 bulls in particular I think are ideal candidates to be used for breeding in the future in AZA accredited zoos as they get older. Regarding Columbus getting a new bull I truly hope the new bull isn’t related to Calvin’s or Onyx’s bloodline. Saint Louis needs a new bull too asap in my opinion.
in regards to pregnancies we have no confirmed Asian Elephant pregnancies in the US currently. As far as pregnant Asian Elephants due this year in AZA accredited zoos Im hearing Rose Tu is most likely pregnant and due this year. Maybe Jade and Maliha were artificially inseminated at the Saint Louis Zoo but I’m not sure about that one. I do know 2023 that Mali at the Rosamond Griffith Zoo and Belle at the Fort Worth Zoo were breeding in 2021 and are possibly due in 2023 but other than that I got nothing
The region indeed only has three surviving bulls born between 2010-2019; Baylor and Duncan at Houston and Bowie at Fort Worth. These bulls aren’t that genetically valuable, with a lot of representation already within the region. I do see Tucker being utilised though in the near future. He would have higher priority over Teddy, being older.
Saint Louis is definitely in need of a new bull due to his daughters now reaching reproductive age. The simplest option would be to exchange Hank at Columbus for Raja.
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Not only would it benefit for St. Louis to over Raja to another facility, but also for Columbus since they need a proven male that can mate naturally and both Rudy and Sundara as they need to be bred ASAP
Don’t forget Hugo, born 2011, and Onyx (if we’re including Canada), born 2018.
@John Marchwick Frankie isn’t that valuable as both Hank and Phoebe come from well represented families and Frankie’s half brothers Bodhi and Beco are much more valuable through their wild born father Coco. Brazos and Teddy are a lot more valuable, however, I suspect it will be a few decades till we see either of these boys in a breeding situation.
I agree; Saint Louis desperately needs a new bull. Maliha is turning 16 this year and Jade will be turning 15 next month. Even Priya, who’s turning 9 in a few months, is at the perfect age to breed. However, because Raja is so special to the zoo and they wouldn’t want to send him away, I have a feeling AI is the path they’ll go down for his girls.
I was talking about the United States for my first point but I get where you getting from.
regarding your second point did not know Frankie had no genetic diversity cause I was told he was originally by other members of zoochat. But I do agree that Teddy and Brazos are both gonna be used for breeding when they’re older.
regarding your third point Saint Louis I think we’ve talked about in the past how they could bring a second bul and move their older females (aside from Ellie) to another facility. Granite they could move Raja to another facility but like you said it’s doubtful. However I don’t believe he should be used for breeding anymore at this point and if I were managing Raja I’d send him to most likely the Denver Zoo to join their bachelor herd