North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation

He should be! The other two bulls are both on the younger side (only 15 and 12) and Tsavo is the half-brother to both Kianga and Nadirah so he definitely wouldn’t have had the opportunity to sire any calves of theirs while Jabali is Kianga’s half brother.

Nonetheless, it’s really great to see Maclean siring more calves as he’s quite the genetically valuable bull! Hopefully this is the first of several in the next couple years!
Jabali's an unrelated bull and is certainly of reproductive age so we can't rule him out entirely just yet.

In saying that, there's a much more likely chance the father is Maclean, who is a valuable founder male. If he is the father of little Corra it's nice to have another daughter from him, securing his genetics at DWAK (and regionally) going forward. Same goes for Donna who only has three surviving daughters to date; Nadirah and two sired by Maclean himself.

The fact that Luna was with Nadirah during the birth obviously indicates DWAK plan to breed her next, if she isn't pregnant already. She's thirteen so this is the perfect time for her to have a calf, and it's also important she gets experience around another calf before she has her own.
 
Jabali's an unrelated bull and is certainly of reproductive age so we can't rule him out entirely just yet.

In saying that, there's a much more likely chance the father is Maclean, who is a valuable founder male. If he is the father of little Corra it's nice to have another daughter from him, securing his genetics at DWAK (and regionally) going forward. Same goes for Donna who only has three surviving daughters to date; Nadirah and two sired by Maclean himself.

The fact that Luna was with Nadirah during the birth obviously indicates DWAK plan to breed her next, if she isn't pregnant already. She's thirteen so this is the perfect time for her to have a calf, and it's also important she gets experience around another calf before she has her own.

I think the best option going forward is to focus on Donna's matriline, she has three daughters + a granddaughter all of whom are breeding/set to be breeding females and it wouldn't make sense to let a proven breeding female like Donna go to waste so it would be best for her to breed with Maclean if she hasn't already.

DAK has shown they can house multiple adult bulls so retaining both Jabali and Maclean wouldn't be too much of an issue. Maclean would mate with Donna and Nadirah, while Jabali would mate with Stella, Luna, and Corra plus any female calves born to Donna and Nadirah.
 
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I think the best option going forward is to focus on Donna's matriline, she has three daughters + a granddaughter all of whom are breeding/set to be breeding females and it wouldn't make sense to let a proven breeding female like Donna go to waste so it would be best for her to breed with Maclean if she hasn't already.

DAK has shown they can house multiple adult bulls so retaining both Jabali and Maclean wouldn't be too much of an issue. Maclean would mate with Donna and Nadirah, while Jabali would mate with Stella, Luna, and Corra plus any female calves born to Donna and Nadirah.
Agreed, although at Donna's age it may in fact just be better to focus on breeding from her three daughters going forward. I think it's reasonable to assume DAK have bigger breeding priorities at the moment - being Kianga and Luna. They've waited a too long with Kianga imo and they can't afford to let Luna go down the same trajectory.

Jabali's a very valuable male; especially if his sister, Kianga fails to conceive. I imagine the plan is to indeed retain him to breed with Maclean's daughters (thus far, Luna and Stella and potentially Corra as well).
 
Agreed, although at Donna's age it may in fact just be better to focus on breeding from her three daughters going forward.

I would disagree with that Donna is only 39 and only has four descendants making her a very genetically valuable female and still has many years ahead of her, there are multiple examples of females older then her having calves such as Renee despite not having a calf since 2011 is pregnant and if management deem her fit enough to continue breeding then there is no reason to retain her from the breeding program
 
I would disagree with that Donna is only 39 and only has four descendants making her a very genetically valuable female and still has many years ahead of her, there are multiple examples of females older then her having calves such as Renee despite not having a calf since 2011 is pregnant and if management deem her fit enough to continue breeding then there is no reason to retain her from the breeding program
I was more in reference to immediately ie. there's no need for her to be pregnant right now with other priorities at this point in time with DAK's breeding program. Going say another two or three years, I could see her pregnant again. A son would be preferable imo.
 
With the birth of Corra being announced, It's really becoming apparent the differences between Asian and African program management.

There have been five African births at four different facilities this year alone, with 5+ on the way next year too. Several of these come from well represented lines, but a handful are much more valuable and some on the way are valuable as well (Renee and Titian's calf for example). After years of several of these facilities seeming "duds" (IE Dallas), I think we finally are seeing a positive upward trend.
One of the weakest parts of the African breeding population was/is the lack of proven bulls and lack of AI trained bulls. While the problem hasn't gone away (Jackson and Mabu continue to be very popular sires), I believe that as these younger bulls come of age we will see more stepping up as proven breeders. There are a few now from valuable lines just beginning to sire offspring, so I don't see the popular sire effect being an issue long-term. Only a handful of Jackson's calves have successfully reproduced, and several are pushing reproductive age themselves. I think Callee will be the most successful spreader of his genes lol, with four calves already, one on the way and very likely an additional two at Sedgwick (the timing is just too fitting after his arrival for them NOT to be his). Mabu may be more of a problem yet, but what's important now is that he's ensuring that these females are proven.

Asians on the other hand have seen much fewer, with only two confirmed pregnancies thus far in the next two years. This isn't to say we won't see more of course, but I think it's safe to say we are in the middle of a frustrating pause in breeding with several facilities right now. With Cincinnati JUST getting breeding cows, Smithsonian's girls being relatively new, Columbus' girls just recently being put with a proven bull, and several other facilities either at capacity or cows raising calves currently, a slight in births isn't altogether unexpected tbh.
The Asian breeding program for years has notoriously left proven bulls to sit in facilities with aging cows when they could and should make even temporary moves for breeding. So many facilities have waited far too long to breed their young cows and now it very well may be too little, too late for some of them. We are finally seeing the consequences of that. Even after announced upcoming moves, that still leaves Billy, Ongard and Sneezy without females to breed as arguably the most valuable males in the region.
That being said, I think we'll see the slack picking up in a few years. Fort Worth, Oklahoma City, Houston and Syracuse will no doubt continue their success with another calf or two each within the next three years. Cincinnati and National, just recently gaining proven cows for their proven bulls, will also very likely see calves in short order. I don't think we can discount Columbus' chances between Sabu and the upcoming arrival of two proven bulls as well. Oregon and STL of course have calves on the way, and my assumption is we will hopefully see at least one more AI calf out of St Louis before Samudra's arrival. I think White Oak, Endangered Ark and ALS will prove to be breeding powerhouses once bulls are transferred (ALS) and time allows calves to be on the ground (Endangered Ark and White Oak).

I think genetics-wise both populations are doing fine, but ssp coordinators need to be careful. I'm not an expert on the studbook and nor to I pretend to be, but allowing bulls to breed in excess is dangerous, especially when more options are readily becoming available (especially on the Asian front).
The African population got a much needed supplement from the Swaziland imports though, well-managed wild blood is priceless and facilities are just beginning to utilize it.
 
If needed, how much could captive elephants be exported from Asia?

They have those in glut, great fresh genes, and you can frame it as a rescue.
 
If needed, how much could captive elephants be exported from Asia?

They have those in glut, great fresh genes, and you can frame it as a rescue.
I would be very, very surprised if any wild Asian elephants were ever imported.
The situation in Africa WAS a rescue, those animals were going to be culled due to the drought.
Bringing in wild elephants without reason not only directly goes against everything the SSP and EEP stands for conservation-wise, but also is a massive step in the wrong direction ethics-wise. Imports years back were stressful, split families and was awful on the animals.

Short of a drought, disaster, etc that would warrant the rescue of a group of Asian Elephants, I don't think getting new wild asian blood is in the cards, nor should we be lobbying for that.
 
With the birth of Corra being announced, It's really becoming apparent the differences between Asian and African program management.

There have been five African births at four different facilities this year alone, with 5+ on the way next year too. Several of these come from well represented lines, but a handful are much more valuable and some on the way are valuable as well (Renee and Titian's calf for example). After years of several of these facilities seeming "duds" (IE Dallas), I think we finally are seeing a positive upward trend.
One of the weakest parts of the African breeding population was/is the lack of proven bulls and lack of AI trained bulls. While the problem hasn't gone away (Jackson and Mabu continue to be very popular sires), I believe that as these younger bulls come of age we will see more stepping up as proven breeders. There are a few now from valuable lines just beginning to sire offspring, so I don't see the popular sire effect being an issue long-term. Only a handful of Jackson's calves have successfully reproduced, and several are pushing reproductive age themselves. I think Callee will be the most successful spreader of his genes lol, with four calves already, one on the way and very likely an additional two at Sedgwick (the timing is just too fitting after his arrival for them NOT to be his). Mabu may be more of a problem yet, but what's important now is that he's ensuring that these females are proven.

Asians on the other hand have seen much fewer, with only two confirmed pregnancies thus far in the next two years. This isn't to say we won't see more of course, but I think it's safe to say we are in the middle of a frustrating pause in breeding with several facilities right now. With Cincinnati JUST getting breeding cows, Smithsonian's girls being relatively new, Columbus' girls just recently being put with a proven bull, and several other facilities either at capacity or cows raising calves currently, a slight in births isn't altogether unexpected tbh.
The Asian breeding program for years has notoriously left proven bulls to sit in facilities with aging cows when they could and should make even temporary moves for breeding. So many facilities have waited far too long to breed their young cows and now it very well may be too little, too late for some of them. We are finally seeing the consequences of that. Even after announced upcoming moves, that still leaves Billy, Ongard and Sneezy without females to breed as arguably the most valuable males in the region.
That being said, I think we'll see the slack picking up in a few years. Fort Worth, Oklahoma City, Houston and Syracuse will no doubt continue their success with another calf or two each within the next three years. Cincinnati and National, just recently gaining proven cows for their proven bulls, will also very likely see calves in short order. I don't think we can discount Columbus' chances between Sabu and the upcoming arrival of two proven bulls as well. Oregon and STL of course have calves on the way, and my assumption is we will hopefully see at least one more AI calf out of St Louis before Samudra's arrival. I think White Oak, Endangered Ark and ALS will prove to be breeding powerhouses once bulls are transferred (ALS) and time allows calves to be on the ground (Endangered Ark and White Oak).

I think genetics-wise both populations are doing fine, but ssp coordinators need to be careful. I'm not an expert on the studbook and nor to I pretend to be, but allowing bulls to breed in excess is dangerous, especially when more options are readily becoming available (especially on the Asian front).
The African population got a much needed supplement from the Swaziland imports though, well-managed wild blood is priceless and facilities are just beginning to utilize it.

Endangered Ark only has 1.2 breeding candidates. Obert one of the most geneticlly valuable bulls in region on par with Casey, Sneezy, Billy and Ongard, and sisters Val and Dorie Marie hopefully more calves will be born from the two sisters.

ALS without a doubt will continue to be a breeding powerhouse with a bull hopefully from Europe arriving after Johnson departs, and White Oak will hopefully become the next ALS.

Transfers I would make that would probably see the population flourish Billy to Albuquerque to mate with Rozana, Sneezy to Fort Worth to mate with Bluebonnet and Belle,.while Romeo moves to Tulsa alongside Shanti and her two calves to mate with Shanti and Joy, and Ongard to Houston to mate with Tupelo, and Tilly and Winnie and Tess after Thai passes.

Maybe being to ambitious moving all breeding individuals from Endangered Ark to ALS allowing Tommy to mate with Emily and Lilly, and Obert with Johnson's daughters
 
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I would be very, very surprised if any wild Asian elephants were ever imported.
The situation in Africa WAS a rescue, those animals were going to be culled due to the drought.
Bringing in wild elephants without reason not only directly goes against everything the SSP and EEP stands for conservation-wise, but also is a massive step in the wrong direction ethics-wise. Imports years back were stressful, split families and was awful on the animals.

Short of a drought, disaster, etc that would warrant the rescue of a group of Asian Elephants, I don't think getting new wild asian blood is in the cards, nor should we be lobbying for that.
I should have been more tactful. I'm aware that the African import was a legit rescue but my idea was that, since many Asian elephants in human care aren't doing so hot, one could bring them if needed. I didn't mean getting legit wild Asian elephants
 
Endangered Ark only has 1.2 breeding candidates. Obert one of the most geneticlly valuable bulls in region on par with Casey, Sneezy, Billy and Ongard, and sisters Val and Dorie Marie hopefully more calves will be born from the two sisters.

ALS without a doubt will continue to be a breeding powerhouse with a bull hopefully from Europe arriving after Johnson departs, and White Oak will hopefully become the next ALS.

Transfers I would make that would probably see the population flourish Billy to Albuquerque to mate with Rozana, Sneezy to Fort Worth while Romeo moves to Tulsa alongside Shanti and two calves, and Ongard to Houston.

Maybe being to ambitious moving all breeding individuals from Endangered Ark to ALS allowing Tommy to mate with Emily and Lilly, and Obert with Johnson's daughters
Correct, Obert should be a priority bull right now. Him, Ongard, Billy and Sneezy are the 'big four' imo.

Considering their ages and backgrounds I would be surprised if Sneezy or Billy ever left their current locations. If anything, cows will probably be the ones joining them. At this point in time, there will be space at Tulsa with their new complex soon being completed. Shanti and Joy would be perfect candidates to join him there.

On the other hand we have the space issue at LA as we'd have to wait for their females to pass before any new cows can be acquired. It's a very similar situation at Zoo Miami too with Nellie and Ongard.

There's no need to move Romeo from Fort Worth at this point in time. He's been a successful breeder and has no daughters there as of yet.

Obert would be a nice bull for Houston too, or in the event ALS don't end up acquiring a bull from Europe, he could go there too.
 
I should have been more tactful. I'm aware that the African import was a legit rescue but my idea was that, since many Asian elephants in human care aren't doing so hot, one could bring them if needed. I didn't mean getting legit wild Asian elephants
Ah I see, my bad for misinterpreting!
The issue with so many of those captive elephants stuck in logging or riding industries is that they are in very, very bad shape. As in- they could never be used for breeding and would likely not survive a substantial amount of time - kind of bad shape.
This sounds cruel, but while the AZA and similar acrediting organizations may warrent protective efforts to WILD elephants, I doubt they'd use resources to bring in aging or post-reproductive animals that could not help the ssp.
 
What is "Endangered Ark", and are they even involved in the SSP population at all (it certainly isn't an AZA facility)?
I would say that if they're not AZA now they will be within a few years. Theyve been involved with AZA transfers in the past and likely will disperse some of their animals into the population within the next few decades.
On the other hand we have the space issue at LA as we'd have to wait for their females to pass before any new cows can be acquired. It's a very similar situation at Zoo Miami too with Nellie and Ongard.
I'm unsure how much space TES has, but moving those cows there would eliminate the space issue at Miami and LA certianly. There's no reason short of just not having transfers of viable cows prepared that those cows should stay. Shanti, Joy and Nelson are really the only animals in NA right now that could be a plausible transfer. Tulsa seems the most likely due to their new complex but we can't rule out LA or Miami either since we can't know for sure that they DON'T have plans to move out their cows.
Considering their ages and backgrounds I would be surprised if Sneezy or Billy ever left their current locations.
It's certianly far more likely that, given the lengths LA has gone to keep Billy especially, that they would want cows to come to them verses sending the bulls out. Both shouldve been on breeding loans long ago, but as it stands now, both facilities have the resourses to accomodate breeding herds and no doubt those are the plans.

Iirc Obert was to be used for breeding Dorie Marie and Val, both need to conceive asap but unless plans are changed, that is the goal. Transferring Obert out would leave Endangered Ark without a bull to breed their only two reproductive females, and not being AZA would make bringing in a new bull much harder. I don't really see a reason why he'd be moved, unless Endangered Ark is ending their breeding program and I just am not aware?

With overseas transports starting back up again post-covid, we will very likely see an import of a bull for ALS, and cows for Miami, Tulsa and/or LA. Its no secret the asian elephant EEP is struggling with a surplus of animals, so Im sure several plans were already in place or are being discussed now. Now we just have to hope no more from the Motek/Warda line are imported ;).
 
I'm unsure how much space TES has,

TES is quite large, it's 2,700 acres in all.

2,200 acres are devoted for Asian elephants, 300 acres for African elephants & 200 acres are designated for quarantining elephants who have known exposure to TB.

Enclosure size definitely isn't a limiting factor at TES, it's probably the size and number of barns that they have if anything.

The Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee - Wikipedia
 
TES definately has free barn space for elephants that were exposed to TB (in the "quarantine barn" and the "Asian barn" - the Asian barn is huge but currently houses only 3 elephants). In the African barn for elephants not exposed to TB, there should be space for 1 female. Barn space for asian elephants not exposed to TB could be a problem since the single survivor of the original TB-free group of Asians also developed clinical TB and is now housed with 2 Africans that were also exposed to TB. However, it might be possible to re-group the elephants to make space for TB-free Asians if the need arises. And they are currently building a new barn for African bull elephants, which frees up the extra barn currently occupied by Artie (African bull elephant).

A few remarks to the other topics discussed here in the last days:

1. I can`t imagine Columbus getting both Johnson AND Raja while keeping Hank. That`s at least 1 bull too much. My guess is the move of Johnson has been cancelled, OR they get Johnson in spring 2024 right after Sabu moves back to Cinci, but gets moved to a 3rd facility before the arrival of Raja in 2025.

2. Speculation that Columbus could also welcome Tess and Joy from Houston seems highly unrealistic to me. First, Columbus already has 3 females in breeding condition and doesn`t need more, while zoos like L.A. and Tulsa urgently need breeding females.

Second, you are not taking into account that female elephants are notoriously difficult to integrate into existing herds, especially if there are calves. Female elephants strongly prefer the company of their own offspring, and once a female has not just one calf, but serveral of them, the likelyhood of aggression between the different matriachial groups is very very high. We`ve seen this in Europe over and over again in the last 25 years - pretty much all zoos that originally had breeding groups with 2 or more unrelated females had to move out one family due to aggression until only one family was left! Examples: Emmen, Hannover, Zurich, Rotterdam, Wuppertal, Halle, Berlin....

You havn`t seen this in North America so far because there are so few family groups and hardly any breeding in the second generation, but believe me, the same will happen in North America too once the families become larger. The rule (with only very few exeptions) is that each zoo can only keep one family, consisting of females all related through the mother. Half sisters through the father`s side don`t count, they will eventually become incompartible with each other even when they`ve grown up together.
 
TES definately has free barn space for elephants that were exposed to TB (in the "quarantine barn" and the "Asian barn" - the Asian barn is huge but currently houses only 3 elephants). In the African barn for elephants not exposed to TB, there should be space for 1 female. Barn space for asian elephants not exposed to TB could be a problem since the single survivor of the original TB-free group of Asians also developed clinical TB and is now housed with 2 Africans that were also exposed to TB. However, it might be possible to re-group the elephants to make space for TB-free Asians if the need arises. And they are currently building a new barn for African bull elephants, which frees up the extra barn currently occupied by Artie (African bull elephant).

I find it interesting on the re-grouping possibility. Since it’s hard to see the thought process on keeping the TB-exposed african away from the non when you have Artie interacting with both groups. So it really defeats to whole purpose of keeping all the African elephants separated to avoid TB spread. Nosey was confirmed negative for TB when she first started sharing space with Sissy. Maybe keeping Africans in the Asia barn is for Sissy not to be alone.
 
I can`t imagine Columbus getting both Johnson AND Raja while keeping Hank. That`s at least 1 bull too much. My guess is the move of Johnson has been cancelled, OR they get Johnson in spring 2024 right after Sabu moves back to Cinci, but gets moved to a 3rd facility before the arrival of Raja in 2025.
There's no evidence that plans to Johnson have been canceled. Johnson's transfer has been years in the making and Raja's has likely been in discussion for months at LEAST, Its very likely Columbus will be receiving both bulls.
I'd say its more likely Hank will be moved out before the 2nd bull arrives. Hank is a dead end natural breeding-wise and currently only serves as a companion to Connie, a role that could easily be filled by Johnson, Raja or even both.
It would be downright irresponsible for Columbus to sacrifice a breeding bull for a behavioral nonbreeder who genuinely just takes up space right now.
Speculation that Columbus could also welcome Tess and Joy from Houston seems highly unrealistic to me. First, Columbus already has 3 females in breeding condition and doesn`t need more, while zoos like L.A. and Tulsa urgently need breeding females.
The idea of Columbus welcoming more cows came before Johnson and Raja's transfers were announced. Even if Sunny becomes proven, theres no guarantee Rudy will be and Phoebe likely will only have one more calf. Two bulls being transferred was very unexpected given that Columbus went over a decade with Hank as a dud before agreeing to Sabu's transfer (which wasn't even primarily a breeding one), so a transfer of Shanti, Joy, Nelson and Tucker was discussed as a way to kill two birds with one stone down the road (split Houston's herd and bring in more reproductive animals to Columbus). Though with likely two proven males coming potentially next year alone, obviously a transfer of Shanti's line now doesn't make sense.
The rule (with only very few exeptions) is that each zoo can only keep one family, consisting of females all related through the mother. Half sisters through the father`s side don`t count, they will eventually become incompartible with each other even when they`ve grown up together.
I don't think there's a single facility in NA capable of holding a massive herd of multiple matrilines. Houston comes close and theyve had multiple unrelated females with various offspring for decades without social strife, and a split is only needed for spacing.
Even Columbus itself introduced two completely unrelated families under the hopes that they would have multiple calves as a group. Several facilities currently have unrelated family groups with no signs of issues because NA does not even sort of have a breeding surplus like Europe does. Maybe issues will arise down the road, yes, but currently theres not enough of a problem where I think SSP coordinators would be wary. Smithsonian just semi recently introduced two females to an unrelated group (with one still reproductive in that group).

I do think that Tulsa is the most likely and beneficial move now for Shanti's line though. It's closer than Miami or LA, and has the room for multiple bulls, so moving Shanti, Joy, Nelson and even Tucker is a possibility that would leave both facilities open for further breeding opportunities. Sneezy could father calves with Shanti and Joy, and then once he passes Tucker can take over as the main breeding bull. Any offspring of Sneezy's would be unrelated to him as well of course.
 
I find it interesting on the re-grouping possibility. Since it’s hard to see the thought process on keeping the TB-exposed african away from the non when you have Artie interacting with both groups. So it really defeats to whole purpose of keeping all the African elephants separated to avoid TB spread. Nosey was confirmed negative for TB when she first started sharing space with Sissy. Maybe keeping Africans in the Asia barn is for Sissy not to be alone.
Honestly, given the fact that TB is by no means a death sentence to most elephants, TES elephants interacting with TB positive individuals isn't a isn't a major issue. It's treatable and none of the individuals at the facility will ever leave, so it's not like there's huge risk for a population spread of it. Im sure TES coordinators would rather the elephants have socialization and a TB risk then isolation but without it.
 
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