North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation
- Thread starter IndianRhino
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GFgomez
Well-Known Member
Tina is 58 years old I don’t think a move is best for her .
Los Angeles zoo has ample space for elephants.
The husbandry and care that goes into Tina and Billy is beyond what the public knows.
I feel they should find a younger herd for Billy since Tina is alone and older .
Ultimately the decision will be made following Tina's passing.
At the present, it isn't in Tina's best interests to move or be introduced to new animals.
Once Tina does pass, LA will have to consider their options and Billy will be the main priority. If they believe he's capable of breeding, cows may be brought in. If not, they could easily go the bachelor route. Either way, I'd be surprised if Billy does leave LA.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
LA would be, to put it frankly, fools to let Tina pass before making a decision. Their elephant program has been scrutinized for years due to Billy being a solitary elephant, and if they let Tina die before bringing new individuals in then they will be in the same boat.
The zoo has stated that Billy is one of the most genetically valuable bulls in NA, so unless he's recently lost fertility I'd be surprised if cows weren't brought in.
X213G
Well-Known Member
Wouldn’t it be hard to keep Billy alone after Tina’s passing because it’s already seen as horrible treatment because their are only two elephants imagine only one elephant it would make animal activists go insane
X213G
Well-Known Member
The city would have to make a big choice if they want to keep him for breeding purposes although the original plan was to breed him it’s already to late.if it’s not to late they could bring in cows from okc city zoo. They could get 2 cows Chandra and Asha although Chandra hasn’t bred the zoo may have a better chance since she is young and is ready to breed with another bull since previous bull she has been introduced to have not successfully bred
X213G
Well-Known Member
I agree the zoo with have to wait until Tina’s passing since she won’t be fit to move anymore because of her age
Asha and Chandra are part of OKC's multi-generational breeding herd with Asha's daughters just hitting breeding age they are not going to separate them anytime soon if at all. LA must source from White Oak, ALS, or Europe if they mean to breed. Unless a zoo like Houston wants to do a matriline split and the SSP deems LA suitable. Also, Chandra is acyclic and no longer cycles she would not be able to have a calf.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
Tina could arguably be moved if she's healthy enough. She was a circus elephant for most of her life so she's used to moving. However Im doubtful they'd move an almost 60 yr old elephant unless it was deemed 100% needed.
Truthfully, there aren’t many places in Europe that are particularly well set up to do a matriline split at the moment either.
Leipzig would probably be the best at the moment. With four proven cows, all of whom have calves, they could very easily send Rani, who is unrelated to the rest of their breeding herd, along with her daughter to a new facility with minimal social impact.
Ramat Gan in Israel would be another facility to potentially look to. While their matriline is intact, consisting of a mother, her three offspring, and a grand offspring, they could split off the oldest daughter along with her inbred female calf, and still leave them with a functional family group.
Leipzig would probably be the best at the moment. With four proven cows, all of whom have calves, they could very easily send Rani, who is unrelated to the rest of their breeding herd, along with her daughter to a new facility with minimal social impact.
Ramat Gan in Israel would be another facility to potentially look to. While their matriline is intact, consisting of a mother, her three offspring, and a grand offspring, they could split off the oldest daughter along with her inbred female calf, and still leave them with a functional family group.
Zoo-Lover-1-2-3
Well-Known Member
What if African Lion Safari did a matriline split? They are currently holding 16 elephants so they can even send a few over to LA zoo and still have a substantial sized herd. Plus does anyone know the max amount of elephants that can be held at the LA zoos elephant facility?
X213G
Well-Known Member
But isn’t Rani too young to breed with Billy.
X213G
Well-Known Member
What is a matrilineal split?
Jonathan Petersson
Well-Known Member
African Lion Safari currently has 19 elephants not 16. They currently have two separate herds so sending one to a new facility would be an option for them. Currently though the facility has enough space for them so sending a herd to a new zoo is not a pressing concern of theirs.
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
When a herd in the wild grows too large to be an effective social group female lines tend to split up that split then forms a bond group.
There have been many cases of younger females being bred by older bulls, in europe some cows have been at the age of five and give birth to their first calf at around seven years, in Houston and Fort Worth. Tupleo gave birth at around 10 and Belle the same age.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
It would be the smartest move for them to send out Lilly and Emily's matrilines before a new bull comes in. ALS is a large facility, but if their young females begin breeding then they'll reach capacity very quickly. They'd save themselves a headache by sending out two matrilines and focus on just one.
Of course, I doubt Charlie Gray would send his cows away easily though.
Zoo-Lover-1-2-3
Well-Known Member
Not sure if someone has already said this but what if the Houston Zoo did a matriline split and sent some to the LA Zoo? If I’m correct they are holding around 12 elephants which is a lot.
Rani's fifteen so absolutely of the adequate breeding age. She's already had two calves thus far.
A heavy price would have to be paid, as we saw with the proposed Tulsa transfer. That's the main issue surrounding a lot of facilities being reluctant to take cows off Gray. Most would only be willing to invest in a few, so perhaps Emily's matriline would be the most appealing at the moment.