Northern White Rhino's going back to Africa

I´m sure Kifaru Bwana will bring detailed answer to the phoenix´s question from people directly involved.

In the meantime:
I´m quite sure there are no frozen egg cells of NWR.
Preserved semen - Suni and Sudan (currently living in Kenya) for sure. Saut (died in DK 2007) - most probably. Angalifu (living in San Diego) - I hope. Ben (ex London, died in DK 1990) - maybe? but unlikely. That´s all. So probably only one additional lineage - Angalifu - not related to the 4 animals in Kenya

There are probably some frozen blood samples of other unrelated animals (Nola and Nadi in San Diego, Nesari in DK) so one time in the future, when we will find a way to use such genetic material to produce gametes, they could add some new lineages.
 
Just to add some taxonomic 'spice' to the argument, a group of mammalogists has now decided that the Northern White Rhino deserves to be regarded as a full species.
See [URL="http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0009703[/URL]
 
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I was wondering when this might happen. I had always heard that there was a huge genetic difference between the two types of White Rhinos. To me that would indicate separate species, and it looks like Colin Groves has come to clarify things (or muddle the water, whichever your take is) again.
 
There is a genetic difference but calling it "huge" is incorrect. It is smaller than in several species pairs that freely will interbreed when in contact. Skeletal differences like mentioned by Groves and coauthors can be of use in the biological species concept but not always. There are skeletal differences between human "races" (that's how forensic pathologists often can say if a skeleton they found likely belonged to a black, white or asian).

Groves and coauthors are certainly correct in calling northern white rhino and southern white rhino different species when using the phylogenetic species concept but that's not really news. Long before their publication it was well established that there were differences between northern and southern. By the definition of the phylogenetic species concept we then have to treat them as separate species. In the same way we have to treat different subspecies (if valid) of the other rhinos as species if following the phylogenetic species concept. That's potentially 12 species of rhinos including 3 that probably now are extinct: Dicerorhinus [sumatrensis] lasiotis, Rhinoceros [sondaicus] inermis and Diceros [bicornis] longipes. The news is that Groves and coauthors more firmly established the exact differences between northern and southern.

In the end it shouldn't matter if they are species or subspecies and in this case I don't think it will either. Whatever the consensus ends up being I guess about the same amount of money will be available to their conservation. But I'm afraid northern white rhino is already a lost case :(
 
Its widely recognised that in taxonomic circles there have always been the 'Lumpers'(placing several hitherto species together as one) and the 'Splitters' (creating more seperate species).

Is this yet another example of the 'Splitters' at work. And if so, how much credence should be attatched to this?
 
Pertinax said:
Its widely recognised that in taxonomic circles there have always been the 'Lumpers'(placing several hitherto species together as one) and the 'Splitters' (creating more seperate species).

Is this yet another example of the 'Splitters' at work. And if so, how much credence should be attatched to this?
Click to expand...

I do believe there is a real issue here (aside from the lumping-splitting debate).
 
There is a real issue but it is down to species concept. If you prefer the phylogenetic species concept they are unquestionably separate species. Same with all the other rhino subspecies (=12 rhino species like described in my last post). If you prefer the biological species concept clear evidence for treating northern and southern white as anything but subspecies of a single species is lacking. The discussion between scientists over what species concept is best has been going on for a long time and probably will continue long after we are all dead from old age.
 
condor said:
There is a real issue but it is down to species concept. If you prefer the phylogenetic species concept they are unquestionably separate species. Same with all the other rhino subspecies (=12 rhino species like described in my last post). If you prefer the biological species concept clear evidence for treating northern and southern white as anything but subspecies of a single species is lacking. The discussion between scientists over what species concept is best has been going on for a long time and probably will continue long after we are all dead from old age.
Click to expand...

Agreed that this debate will continue for near eternity and that phylogenetic and biological species concepts are 2 different things.

Where this whole debate is more than valid is with the question do we favour a policy for careful breeding with the last pure representatives of the (sub-)species or hybridisation with a closely related taxon. This throws up all kinds of questions: how closely related taxa still produce viable reproductively functional offspring. Do we just let a taxon slip when it is functionally extinct and where other closely related taxa are available?

I myself have not even answered these questions/issues in endangered species management and recovery fully and convincingly .... :D
 
Some updates about the 4 rhinos on Ol Pejeta

It seens, that since the beggining of the year Fatu and Suni have been mating every cycle.

Ol Pejete has shared a video on:
(viewer discretion to sensitive and underage users)

Does someone knows if mattings were common when they were still kept in Czech?
 
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In another (or the same?) update its mentioned that the old male 'Sudan' has now mated with either one or possibly two, of the Southern White females who share the reserve with him.
 
Not sure if this is old news or not, but Najin has been seen mating with Suni after they started displaying an interest in each other about a month ago.

Information taken from the Ol Pejeta Conservancy Facebook page.
 
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