San Diego Zoo Pandas are leaving San Diego Zoo

ThylacineAlive said:
All good. I find it surprising that you think Sea Otters are hard to imagine as endangered considering they've been endangered since before we were all born :p

~Thylo
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I clearly have my otter species confused, lol, largely because I was born several decades before most of you and the onset of dementia is no longer a distant prospect.:p;)
 
There is at least one other (sub-)species, US authorities do not allow to export: The Florida Manatee (Although I don't know how difficult it is for European zoos to get Caribbean Manatees from their origin countries)
 
zoomaniac said:
There is at least one other (sub-)species, US authorities do not allow to export: The Florida Manatee (Although I don't know how difficult it is for European zoos to get Caribbean Manatees from their origin countries)
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Caribbean is the subspecies that's about in Europe in decent numbers so I'd imagine imports are possible. This population is breeding, though, so maybe it's more self-sustaining at this point? On the other hand this is also the subspecies DWA acquired when looking for permanent manatees to exhibit (I don't think any zoos exhibiting the Florida subspecies have permanent residents).

~Thylo
 
While the outdoor yards aren't especially large, there must be a great deal of indoor space. Over the years the updates and blog have mentioned enough bedrooms and sunrooms for each bear to have had multiple spaces, even when there were four bears in residence. There were also quite a few scientific staff that must have required more than the usual keeper and curatorial spaces. The whole exhibit is one designed to be a research facility in that regard, and I'm torn between hoping good use can be made of it and waiting however long it takes for the possibility of a panda return.

What will happen to the senior staff quite specialized in just this one animal? Has anyone seen any mention in national news hypothesizing a link between trade policy and the seemingly-sudden return of all of the SD
pandas?
 
CNN reports that reps from SD are travelling to China to try to renegotiate an agreement for pandas.

The site is not allowing me to post the link.
 
CBS reports that reps from SD are travelling to China to try to renegotiate an agreement for pandas.

Sorry. CBS is correct. I tried to edit immediately, but I wasn't allowed to do that either.
 
I agree that it is most likely politics causing this, especially with how sudden it is and how old the pandas are; I've had a feeling something like this might happen. Unfortunately we have a president who couldn't care less about some animals in a zoo, other than being told he can't have something. I feel awful for the keepers, in particular, who have such a short time to say goodbye and to evaluate their careers.
Panda diplomacy - Wikipedia

While it may not impact visitor #s, if San Diego is anything like Smithsonian, losing all of that panda merch in the gift shops will be a blow.
 
I doubt they'll lose all too many sales in panda merch. Most zoos sell panda merch whether or not they keep them and I think it has a lot more to do with little kids seeing a panda product and wanting it than the actual animals' presence (though that'd increase things surely).

~Thylo
 
[QUOTE/]=Here in Switzerland, it is an open secret that Circus Knie, after it has stopped to travel and performing with elephants, has to struggle to keep their visitor numbers (specially in small towns).[/QUOTE]

After 15 years of harrassment and protests, Ringling succombed and retired its performing elephants. Within a year, the legendary 100+year-old circus closed. Owner Kenneth Feld reported that people stopped coming because they had wanted to see the elephants all along. By then it was too late.

So many "animal-rights activists" claim zoos only keep elephants and pandas to increase attendance and, thereby, income. No one ever mentions that NZP houses both species and zoo admission is free. Further, the exhorbitant costs of keeping both species surely far exceed any financial gain at other institutions.
 
ThylacineAlive said:
I doubt they'll lose all too many sales in panda merch. Most zoos sell panda merch whether or not they keep them and I think it has a lot more to do with little kids seeing a panda product and wanting it than the actual animals' presence (though that'd increase things surely).

~Thylo
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A toy might move more :P
 
In my opinion, giant pandas in US zoos are a money pit and provide very little conservation benefit compared to other species. The rent is crazy and the fact they can be removed at any point is absurd. Their diet and space requirements are also heavily regulated by China. The Chinese government basically holds them hostage because they know zoos around the world want them. The charisma of a panda is overwhelming for zoo guests but I think I can speak for many people here and for many zoo professionals in saying that pandas aren’t what they are hyped up to be.

I know SDZ has said that they want to bring pandas back but how much effort and money are they worth to the overall mission of the zoo?
 
I don't know about the Memphis or Atlanta contracts, but I'm fairly certain that SD and NZP had specific guarantees on length of stay each time the contract was re-negotiated, for both adults and potential or existing cubs. Sometimes, the original duration of a cub's stay, usually three years, has been extended by China; Shi Shi was returned but only in exchange for Gao Gao. China hasn't just suddenly called for a return before; all pandas to my knowledge have stayed the full duration of their contract.

That's what makes this so shocking. The fact that SD immediately announced plans to renegotiate illustrates how clearly they want these animals and would not have favored this return. I can only guess that SD's contract had expired and that legally, China could claim no agreement had been broken. Xao Li Wu was here longer than any other cub, far exceeding three years. Perhaps the last contract had expired with some tacit understanding that Mr. Wu would be called back eventually, but Bai Yun and Gao Gao would live out their days here. If a written legal contract had been breached, I think SD would have made some kind of stink instead of seeming so obedient and subservient. It's impossible though to think of this move as anything but retaliation for the tariffs. I'm sure no one anywhere thinks it ideal to subject elderly ànimals at the very upper limits of their life expectancy to long overseas travel in a shipping crate they clearly had no time to (re)adapt to.
 
DavidBrown said:
I went to see the pandas today, and the zoo educator who gives the panda talks said outright that the zoo is not changing the exhibit and expects pandas to be coming back at some point.
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My daughter and son-in-law were at the SDZoo a couple months ago, and while viewing the pandas, they were told the exact same thing as David Brown -- there will be NO changing the exhibit or new species put in it. They totally expect pandas to be back, perhaps soon.

I also strongly agree with reduakari and others here who say this is all about both SDZoo trying to renegotiate a better deal and the politics of Trump's stupid trade war with China. At the recent G20 Summit, Trump seemed to be backing down a bit, so maybe there's hope the trade war will end soon. If he wants any hope of reelection, he'd better end these trade wars soon!

The craziest things I've read on this thread are from those we could label as "anti-panda", who think giant pandas are "stupid" for zoos. Crazy! For those trying to argue that pandas (or elephants) have no effect on visitor numbers (and thus zoo income), just ask those who KNOW much more than any of us -- the zoo officials who are willing to pay $1 million per year to exhibit pandas at their zoo. THEY certainly think it's worth it! I've talked with some zoo folks at various zoos worldwide (Adelaide, Edinburgh, Atlanta, etc.) with pandas, and what they've told me is that the ultimate thing that makes pandas profitable for zoos is ..... baby pandas!! When I was at Tokyo's Ueno Zoo recently, the recent birth of a baby panda was not only making the zoo very busy with additional visitors, but the nearby Panda Gift Shop was doing lots of business, selling stuffed pandas and other panda souvenirs.
 
ANyhuis said:
My daughter and son-in-law were at the SDZoo a couple months ago, and while viewing the pandas, they were told the exact same thing as David Brown -- there will be NO changing the exhibit or new species put in it. They totally expect pandas to be back, perhaps soon.
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Three words: Sunk Cost fallacy :p

ANyhuis said:
I've talked with some zoo folks at various zoos worldwide (Adelaide, Edinburgh, Atlanta, etc.) with pandas, and what they've told me is that the ultimate thing that makes pandas profitable for zoos is ..... baby pandas!!
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With all due respect, listening to Edinburgh with regards to giant pandas being profitable/worthwhile is like citing the Charge of the Light Brigade as an example of successful military strategy.......

More's the pity :(
 
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