San Diego Zoo Pandas are leaving San Diego Zoo
- Thread starter SharkFinatic
- Start date
The economics, as I understand them, are well quantified. You ideally need the pair to breed twice during their 10-year loan to turn a profit. Needless to say, most zoos aren't that lucky. It's not really a financial issue for San Diego, but God only knows why Edinburgh want to roll the dice again.
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
There's a genuine "prestige" in being a "Panda Zoo". I certainly got that impression from the folks I talked to in Adelaide earlier this year. While I've heard plenty of anti-panda viewpoints on ZooChat, I have yet to hear any zoo official saying anything negative about displaying pandas. Those who have them are delighted to have them, and those who don't wish they had them -- or they're "considering" getting them in the future (Omaha, Prague).
Well, no, of course not. That's how things work when it's "official". Of course they aren't going to be complaining to you about the financial issues.
Pandas do bring prestige and I agree it's not really about the money for places like San Diego, D.C., and Pairi Daiza. In fact, at least one of those zoos loses millions of dollars on their program annually.
As for the rest of your post, zoo officials aren't exactly going to admit they made a multi-million dollar cock-up, are they? And plenty of zoos without pandas are openly glad of the fact. Take, for instance, the 2016 responses from Woodland Park and Tacoma to potentially having pandas foisted on them by a local businessman and his politician friends (fortunately nothing came of it).
That must be why Memphis is such a world renowned collection then.
That must be why the WCS has been publicly fighting against politicians trying to force pandas on them for years then.
~Thylo
That may have been true at one time, but it has not been true for many years. I don't have insight into Omaha's current plans, but their desire to get pandas in the past ended many years ago with the decision not to get giant pandas. There are several other zoos (e.g., Seattle, Los Angeles, Oakland) where that is also the case.
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FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
I just fixed this post because for some reason a quote by ANyhuis was attributed to Thylo.
Thanks for fixing that. I was trying to clean up a bunch of cut and paste of quotes and obviously botched it.
There are two AZA accredited zoos in my city of Tucson and I am certain neither of them are considering getting them in the future. I am especially certain of Arizona Sonora Desert Museum, since they only house animals native to the Sonoran Desert!
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
First, Memphis really IS one of the top zoos in America! And their CHINA exhibit is one of the best anywhere -- good enough to fit into Disney's Epcot Center.
Perhaps this helps explain why the Bronx Zoo was formerly one of the top zoos in the entire world, but now they don't even crack the Top 5 in the USA.
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
Quite obviously, pandas do NOT fit in a desert climate!There are two AZA accredited zoos in my city of Tucson and I am certain neither of them are considering getting them in the future. I am especially certain of Arizona Sonora Desert Museum, since they only house animals native to the Sonoran Desert!
Maybe it is, I haven't visited. I've heard plenty of complaints about the nocturnal house and other exhibits, though. Regardless, you said having pandas gives them a certain prestige, but my point is I think you'd be a bit hard pressed to find a zoo nerd who's never visited Memphis but immediately thinks of it when thinking about the most prestigious collections in the world. Bronx, San Diego, Smithsonian, Saint Louis, Omaha, London, Berlin, Prague, Plzen, Singapore, Melbourne, and many, many others will come to mind loooong before Memphis, pandas or not.
This statement doesn't make any sense, nor is it accurate in any sense. I don't think the zoo has even kept pandas within living memory.
~Thylo
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
You're talking about "collections", while I'm talking about entire zoos. Sorry but Bronx and London are no longer among the world's top zoos anymore, and Plzen never was!
What I'm saying is that Bronx "might" return to top zoo status if they weren't so closed-minded to new ideas -- such as displaying key "Bonus" animals, such as pandas, koalas, manatees, etc.
I certainly agree that neither London nor Plzen are among the world's top zoo, but we're talking name recognition as per your initial point-- something which Memphis won't have just because they have pandas. Also, it'd be nice if your blanket "it's a fact because I said so" statements on collections you haven't actually visited in over a decade actually came with some quantifications...
Close-minded is an odd word to use for a zoo that has a larger collection than any of the US zoos you've mentioned, has worldwide name recognition and status, and has been actively phasing in tons of odd and endangered species several of which have later been picked up by other US zoos (Maleo and Kihansi Spray Toad for instance). Pandas would financially sink the zoo because they are money pits, a point you initially entered this thread declaring was false but have since ignored every post correcting you. Koalas also go against the zoo's collection planning, which is centered around the WCS's conservation programs. Zoos that choose to prioritize exhibiting "bonus superstar species"-- a term of yours which you use often yet has no set definition-- are most often the ones that have fallen the furthest (see Edinburgh). If you're a zoo that can't keep guests in your gates without pandas, you've got way more problems than a panda's going to fix.
~Thylo
There is one other type of zoo that does this, the ones that do it just for the prestige, regardless of the costs, these are often backed by wealthy investors as is the case for Ouwehands Dierenpark, NL (no other Dutch zoo wants pandas), Pairi Daiza & Beauval. Other zoos that have Panda, mainly for the prestige, are too big to fail such as Zoo Berlin or Schoenbrunn in Vienna.
A scientific article on the Pandanomics of Adelaide Zoo can be found here:
SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals
To summarize, Panda made a positive impact for the first 2 years only and failed to meet expected targets in increased visitor numbers and economic output.
Bib Fortuna
Well-Known Member
The biggest problem with keeping pandas in zoos outside of China is that the zoos have to pay a tremendous "rental fee," $ 1 million, one million euros-no one will ever know, except the zoos and the Chinese-and have to recover this money by selling "Panda Merchandise". Just so that the "animal-loving Chinese" can earn a golden nose on the cute pandas. Yes, part of the rental fee is of course used for the protection of the pandas - but these are peanuts that the Chinese do not really need. They breed pandas in their breeding stations like other zoos brown bears. The vast majority of the money will certainly not be used for the "administrative costs" of the few loan pandas that exist. It's amazing how generous the Chinese have spread their precious pandas around the world over the past 15 years ... There are now 9 zoos in Europe with them-easy money. The whole world loves pandas, and the zoos use them to attract visitors -that works very well, especially in Berlin-because pandas are not only cute. The zoos use them to further their image, the panda's attitude is of course sold as "species protection", we save the endangered giant panda. Of course, the Chinese do everything for their national animal, primarily to improve the image of their country in the world. There is no other animal that is abused for political reasons than the panda. But what about conservation in China when it comes to rhinos , tigers, moon and sun bears, turtles and pangolins? Last but not least, everything that can run, fly and swim lands on Chinese plates ... Let's face it - the keeping of pandas in zoos has nothing to do with conservation, but only profit-making - on both sides, china and the rest of the world, and that's why every zoo accepts the business with rhino, tiger and pangolin products in China without any problems....so where are the signs at a panda exhibt, showing the trade with pangolin and rhino products in China ?
I can't disagree with the meaning of Bib Fortunas post...
I'm bibased about Giant Pandas in zoos. One one hand, they are a huge attraction and give zoos who keeping them a lot of prestige. On the other hand, they cost a lot of money and are a politicial issue (thats why my local zoo in Zurich don't want them).
However, in the case of San Diego Zoo who was famous for decades for having Giant Pandas, I believe that the no-keeping-pandas-time will have an impact in regard of prestige and probably also visitor numbers.
I'm bibased about Giant Pandas in zoos. One one hand, they are a huge attraction and give zoos who keeping them a lot of prestige. On the other hand, they cost a lot of money and are a politicial issue (thats why my local zoo in Zurich don't want them).
However, in the case of San Diego Zoo who was famous for decades for having Giant Pandas, I believe that the no-keeping-pandas-time will have an impact in regard of prestige and probably also visitor numbers.