Pangolins breeding at a Florida charity base
- Thread starter devilfish
- Start date
my post about no zoos having the frogs was from February, so it wasn't long before it was made incorrect! I can think of some reasons the zoos in question may not want to shout about receiving endangered species from a shady animal dealer...
I would assume this may not have been the only breeding at the center ..!???
I assume you are correct, but this is the only one that they have announced since the birth that this thread started with.
Bib Fortuna
Well-Known Member
And I bet this birth was from a pregnant imported female. Is it still alive, so hopefully, a second generation of pangolins can be bre din the future ? As far as I know, more than 50 pangolins were importetd by this place. Some were send to a few Us-Zoos(some of them already died),so what happend to all the other pangolins, if only 3.3 left at this facility ?
It is always nice to see what can be done with a lot of money.....But it shows how egoistically many zoos still think when it comes to adding a new, spectacular species to their collection, because some of them have rushed to the pangolins like a vulture, without thinking about where the animals came from . Of course all for Conservation, right?
It is always nice to see what can be done with a lot of money.....But it shows how egoistically many zoos still think when it comes to adding a new, spectacular species to their collection, because some of them have rushed to the pangolins like a vulture, without thinking about where the animals came from . Of course all for Conservation, right?
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It's not that the place has only 3.3, it's just that it has at least 3.3. As I posted above, the number is probably much higher, but from various press releases and social media postings that's how many that I can confirm.
Justin Miller, the founder, did a 40 minute long Facebook Live presentation today. Three different pangolins were shown, and the number of pangolins they have based on what they've released on social media is now at least (almost assuredly more than) 4.3. He did take questions and while two people asked how many the place had, the number was withheld "for security purposes". The presentation was nonetheless interesting and if anyone is interested in watching, here is the link:
I wish this site wouldn't keep promoting this place...
~Thylo
~Thylo
Would you mind a explanation Thylo? The Brookfield zoo (Who got their pangolins from this place) has already bred 5 pangolins in a year! Not to mention, they will be going on display in a few months. Thanks to this charity base, the public will soon be educated about the plight the scaly mammal is facing, and it's thanks to this place.
Just because Brookfield got pangolins does not necessarily mean they came from this place. The import of the pangolins to this center and the import of pangolins to the US zoos were two different imports that took place at different times. Yes this center imported pangolins for US zoos in the past but none of those survived. And do not mistake already pregnant wild-caught females giving birth at a zoo as the same thing as breeding the species.
I agree that the plight of this species and its entire family needs to be brought to the public eye and that captive breeding programs are necessary, but I do not wish to support any center that receive their animals through the same means as the ones pushing them towards extinction. There's a body count leading up to the 4.3+ animals at this facility and the means of acquiring these animals and working out their husbandry is far from kosher.
~Thylo
Fair enough, I was just curious. My point is that they have bred a steady amount of pangolins and that they are doing good work, even though how they got their hands on them was a controversial method.
Are they doing good work if the methods by which they do it is controversial? The word "counterintuitive" comes to mind here; how many pangolins does this guy breed compared to how many die at his hands? I'm not trying to take a stance here, by the way; one could also argue that the husbandry research developed will be worth it in the long run, or that those individuals might not have been better off in their native habitat anyway. Just food for thought.
You make a good point, but with only 4.3 known, it's hard to know how many have died and how many have given birth.
Does this place just have white bellies, or are their other species?
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
In the past on this thread it's been implied that births at this facility are just 'imported pregnancies' rather than actual breeding successes. Has this been proved or refuted? That would be useful to know.
nobody knows, any more than anybody knows how many Miller has imported and how many have died in his hands. He really doesn't help his "cause" by being so secretive.
Some of the births in the zoos which now have them were soon to be anything other than wild-bred, but others seem to have been from captive-breedings. Although obviously nothing has been released publicly.
I would be interested in a more official confirmation of many pangolins arriving behind the scenes in major zoos.
And please remember, that big factor in keeping pangolins is that in Africa they are commonly captured alive by hunters, bound, and long displayed for sale on local markets as living ladders. Most individuals probably arrive in zoos from that source - so they are very sick and emaciated to begin with. Big mortality is not a surprise then.
And please remember, that big factor in keeping pangolins is that in Africa they are commonly captured alive by hunters, bound, and long displayed for sale on local markets as living ladders. Most individuals probably arrive in zoos from that source - so they are very sick and emaciated to begin with. Big mortality is not a surprise then.
There are currently a known 14.14.1 in 6 AZA institutions. Only one birth could truely be claimed to be captive bred. The others most definitely *could* be pregnant imported females. I believe all orginate from Togo as the exporting country but that doesn't mean that is where they were collected.
Most, if not all, came through him and were sold to zoos.But did these animals come from this guy? I didn't know about the frogs but I was under the impression that the pangolins were imported separate from him.
~Thylo
It is interesting that one of the zoos that acquired pangolins from him also received 0.0.13 frogs imported from Togo. Hmmmm....