Phase out species in United States

There appear to be a number of reasons for phase outs. One is the size, average age and or relatedness of the population. Often these just not enough gentic diversity to maintain a healthy population. Of the tags that offered population numbers the pase outs usually had a population the was very small in comparison to the others in their tag. Another factor is just interest in keeping them. If zoos dont want them the wont be exhibit space for a healthy population. They might as well focus on species the zoos want. Third theres the ability of the species to reproduce. If too many are post reproductive that wont do. If the just dont like breeding in captivity they might as well keep others who do. We just cant take wild animals the way we used to. Fourth is the abilty to obtain new founders for a smaller gene pool. If you cant get enough founders and have little hope of getting them you are stuck. Fourth is the health of zoo populations areound the world. If the europeans have great population of a species it frees aza zoos up to breed other species that europe doesnt have. It doesnt appear they care about any other regions populations. Fifth is the situation of the animal in the wild. Theres not as much need to take up space with animals in the least concern category when they could breed rarer animals but not so rare they cant build a healthy reserve population. The goal is conservation balanced with a healthy genetically sound population for the next 100 years. Sith is the consideration of where is conservation money best spent. Will they do better in zoos or working on conserving the animals in the wild. Its a complex formula each tag must sort out for each species it manages. If you can think of a reason to keep a species around or one to get rid of them odds are theyve considered it.
 
TZFan said:
There appear to be a number of reasons for phase outs.
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Thanks for the information. I had seen the acronym TAG used here many times, but I didn't know what it meant. With this context, I was able to learn that it is a Taxon Advisory Group (Association of Zoos and Aquariums - Taxon Advisory Groups).

I think the key piece of reasoning I missed was the goal of maintaining a population without taking more animals from the wild.

The one negative result of this TAG philosophy is the homogenization of zoo collections. If every zoo that has a representative of one group has the same species or subspecies, then I can travel all over North America and never see anything new.
 
So most animals in American zoos are on phase-out? This goes too far. And I want to explain why.

First, education by showing only few popular animals (usually the ones known from popular movies and TV) destroys long-term support for conservation. Lay public gets superficially interested, but people with serious interest in animals are bored. And this smaller group has incomparably big impact on conservation. Now they are bored and discouraged. You can see it on Zoochat - people saying "oh no, no more lions and meerkats". Plus there is an unspoken feeling that animals are not really serious and worth of donation money as much as health, art etc.

Second, uniformity reduces tourist appeal of zoos. Nobody will want to visit a zoo on holiday if animals are the same as in his home zoo.

Third, conservation is very poor at predicting future trends. Zoos cannot well estimate which species will be most threatened in 20 years time, not even 100. Also, zoos can poorly predict which animals will be available or most popular in future.

Fourth, the goal of sustainable population during 100 years is too long. Currently, interest in reintroduction comes usually within 10 years after the species became extinct.

Fifth, possible founder animals are usually available. Zoos and sanctuaries in native countries receive lots of injured, orphaned and un-releaseable individuals. Only there is no serious effort to import them anymore.
 
Jurek7 said:
So most animals in American zoos are on phase-out? This goes too far. And I want to explain why.

First, education by showing only few popular animals (usually the ones known from popular movies and TV) destroys long-term support for conservation. Lay public gets superficially interested, but people with serious interest in animals are bored. And this smaller group has incomparably big impact on conservation. Now they are bored and discouraged. You can see it on Zoochat - people saying "oh no, no more lions and meerkats". Plus there is an unspoken feeling that animals are not really serious and worth of donation money as much as health, art etc.

Second, uniformity reduces tourist appeal of zoos. Nobody will want to visit a zoo on holiday if animals are the same as in his home zoo.

Third, conservation is very poor at predicting future trends. Zoos cannot well estimate which species will be most threatened in 20 years time, not even 100. Also, zoos can poorly predict which animals will be available or most popular in future.

Fourth, the goal of sustainable population during 100 years is too long. Currently, interest in reintroduction comes usually within 10 years after the species became extinct.

Fifth, possible founder animals are usually available. Zoos and sanctuaries in native countries receive lots of injured, orphaned and un-releaseable individuals. Only there is no serious effort to import them anymore.
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I agree 100%! The AZA has done a good job but they have to be careful for they're going to end up making a big mistake one day (whether it be reducing the interest in zoos or phasing-out a species that then becomes highly endangered and goes Extinct or something else).

And I'm very sad to see that the AZA wants to phase-out species that are, in fact, endangered! Like the Sulawesi Crested Macaque. It's Critically Endangered in the wild and we're phasing it out!

~Thylo:cool:
 
ThylacineAlive said:
I agree 100%! The AZA has done a good job but they have to be careful for they're going to end up making a big mistake one day (whether it be reducing the interest in zoos or phasing-out a species that then becomes highly endangered and goes Extinct or something else).

And I'm very sad to see that the AZA wants to phase-out species that are, in fact, endangered! Like the Sulawesi Crested Macaque. It's Critically Endangered in the wild and we're phasing it out!

~Thylo:cool:
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I think it's a regional thing as well, in Europe Sulawesi macaques are increasingly common and breed well. Therefore it would make sense for AZA to phase them out and replace them with a species that breeds readily in the USA that we struggle with in Europe. I think that's why the only geladas are at the Bronx and managed as part of the EEP instead of the American equivalent.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the list of animals on phase out is ridiculously long and quite unnecessary but I can see reasons for certain species (like the aforementioned macaques) to no longer be needed in AZA zoos.
 
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And we should forget its not just about having diversity amongst all the zoos. It would be great if we could keep all endangered animals in zoos but reality is tough choices have to be made. In north american there are only so many zoos and they have a limited amount of space available. Many of the big city zoos are land locked. No room to expand. And for those that can expand can they pay for the land, exhibit construction and cost of keeping the animals. All that results in a need to focus their efforts. There is only so much room for macaques for example. There was I think 8 species of macaque listed. Lets say for argument there are 1000 macaque spots available in all of the aza. Can they hope to maintain a 8 genetically diverse species for the next 100 years with roughly 1000 spots? Unfotunately no seems to be the answer. So the aza has to look at how many they can keep. There answer seems to be 5. So who goes? Well thats when we enter the complex formula of species need, interest, husbandry needs, population size, gentic diversity, ability to find new founders, ability to conserve in the wild and the status of other zoo organizations stock. If we fight to save the sulawesi macaque what other macaquemust go? Or do we cut other species in the zoo to find space? Its a tough call and I dont envy them.

When it comes to taking animals from the wild thats now a nightmare. First you need to work through things with its native country. Look how hard it is to get many Australian animals out of Australia. Thenif you can get premission you have to jump throughimport laws in canada or the us. That too can be a nightmare... lok at Pittsburgh zoos (I think its them) to import just elephant semen for ai. They arent even trying to get an elephant in. And dont forget the power of the animal rights activist who will fight you the whole way. Think about the controversy over san diego safari parks and lowery parks elephants. Or recently georgia aquariums attempts to get belugas. Then you have to get the animals, check their health, fill out a mounatin of paperwork, transport them, quarantine them and finally integrate them. Sometimes its easy but other times it can be insane and fruitless. Its a huge undertaking to boost genetic diversity this way.

Tha aza does the best it can with what it has.
 
I don't know if you were speaking hypothetically, but what 5 macaque species are being kept by the AZA (and what 3 are being phased-out?)? I've seen two macaque species in zoos- Japanese and Lion-Tailed. I also know of the Sulwesi Crested Macaque and Barbary Macaque but that's it. Of the four I know are in AZA zoos, the three endangered ones, the Lion-Tailed, Barbary, and Sulawesi Crested Macaque, are being phased-out while the not even threatened species, the Japanese Macaque is being kept. So what are the others?

And I do understand that Europe has a strong plan for both the Sulawesi Crested and Barbary Macaques but it seems as though Lion-Tailed Macaques are being phased-out in Europe, too.

And what's the status of mangabeys in the AZA? It seems all species are being phased-out.

~Thylo:cool:
 
I think the concern about uniformity in zoos is very real. It could mean zoo attendance would decrease if people see the same animals in every zoo. If there is too much uniformity then just zoos with pandas will be the big draw. I can understand phasing out certain species due to space. There isn't a lot of room for zoos to expand in cities and probably not many more cities are around (except Vegas, Charlotte, or maybe some areas in California or Texas) that can support a new zoo. As I have said before, it is too bad the AZA can't invest in some property somewhere with a suitable climate where surplus animals can go. I don't mean "warehousing" them by any means, but take them to a place where they can stay in the short-term or long-term until there is space at a zoo.
 
Thinking back I think I combined Macaques and baboons without realizing I combined them. They had been under the same grouping probably do to their size. The 8 i was thinking of were Japanese, Sulewasi, barbary, Lion tail, and Rhesus Macaques combined with Mandrills, Drills, olive baboons, hamadryas baboons, and geladas. Ok I miss counted too when I added them up in my head too because thats 10 (I forgot the olives and geladas). Japanese, lion tail, mandrills, drills, hamadryas and geladas are all to grow their populations or at least maintain. Generally I totally messed up my count but the point remains valid if we just say i picked 8 as a hypothetical number. I picked 1000 as a hypothetical number of places available. Could be more or less by a lot.

For the Japanese Macaques part of the reason they might want to keep them despite their status in the wild could be the consideration of colder climate zoos. They love being outside in the winter. Snow and ice done phase them. Because of that they dont need indoor exhibits for the winter like African species might. I cant say if the others do well all winter outside but I know the Japanese macaques can. When I was a kid we would always go to the zoo in the winter and the Japanese Macaques were quite a draw for the few guest the zoo had because they were so much fun in winter. I cant remember if we let out baboons or lion tails outside in winter but i know out mandrills never went out. I know this wouldnt be a consideration for southern zoos but for zoos further north that get tons of snow it might have been part of the decision to keep Japanese macaques. I wish we still had them in Toronto. We have barbary apes which we are phasing out and people havent been able to access their exhibit in over a year due to a massive reno to their section of the zoo. Im fairly sure the tag said there were 8 barbaries at one institution (no it wasnt listed) but Im guessing those 8 were Torontos... which have since dwindled more.
 
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jusko88 said:
I can confirm that the DLC has only Coquerel's Sifaka. The last Diademed Sifaka at the center passed away last year. Europe has a strong population of Golden-crowned sifakas and there are no Silky Sifakas in captivity.
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The crowned sifakas in Europe are Propithecus coronatus, while the golden-crowned or Tattersall's sifaka (Propithecus tattersalli) is a different species. I met Ian Tattersall at a prosimian conference at Chester Zoo and he signed my copy of 'Lemurs of Madagascar'.

I think it's a great shame about the phasing out of some endangered species in American zoos, especially when these species are not being protected elsewhere. I would prefer a limit being placed on how many American zoos could keep a certain species and then this could free up space to save other species from extinction. I've talked with a few people who heard about the olinguito. I wonder how many of those people had heard about olingos before Thursday. Zoos should be promoting their unusual endangered species instead of phasing them out.
 
TZFan said:
Thinking back I think I combined Macaques and baboons without realizing I combined them. They had been under the same grouping probably do to their size. The 8 i was thinking of were Japanese, Sulewasi, barbary, Lion tail, and Rhesus Macaques combined with Mandrills, Drills, olive baboons, hamadryas baboons, and geladas. Ok I miss counted too when I added them up in my head too because thats 10 (I forgot the olives and geladas). Japanese, lion tail, mandrills, drills, hamadryas and geladas are all to grow their populations or at least maintain. Generally I totally messed up my count but the point remains valid if we just say i picked 8 as a hypothetical number. I picked 1000 as a hypothetical number of places available. Could be more or less by a lot.

For the Japanese Macaques part of the reason they might want to keep them despite their status in the wild could be the consideration of colder climate zoos. They love being outside in the winter. Snow and ice done phase them. Because of that they dont need indoor exhibits for the winter like African species might. I cant say if the others do well all winter outside but I know the Japanese macaques can. When I was a kid we would always go to the zoo in the winter and the Japanese Macaques were quite a draw for the few guest the zoo had because they were so much fun in winter. I cant remember if we let out baboons or lion tails outside in winter but i know out mandrills never went out. I know this wouldnt be a consideration for southern zoos but for zoos further north that get tons of snow it might have been part of the decision to keep Japanese macaques. I wish we still had them in Toronto. We have barbary apes which we are phasing out and people havent been able to access their exhibit in over a year due to a massive reno to their section of the zoo. Im fairly sure the tag said there were 8 barbaries at one institution (no it wasnt listed) but Im guessing those 8 were Torontos... which have since dwindled more.
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Wait, so Geladas, Lion-Tailed Macaques, and Drills aren't being phased-out anymore?

And the Las Vagas Zoo has the last Barbary Macaques in the U.S.

~Thylo:cool:
 
Dassie rat said:
The crowned sifakas in Europe are Propithecus coronatus, while the golden-crowned or Tattersall's sifaka (Propithecus tattersalli) is a different species. I met Ian Tattersall at a prosimian conference at Chester Zoo and he signed my copy of 'Lemurs of Madagascar'.

I think it's a great shame about the phasing out of some endangered species in American zoos, especially when these species are not being protected elsewhere. I would prefer a limit being placed on how many American zoos could keep a certain species and then this could free up space to save other species from extinction. I've talked with a few people who heard about the olinguito. I wonder how many of those people had heard about olingos before Thursday. Zoos should be promoting their unusual endangered species instead of phasing them out.
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I like that approach.
 
Sorry about the delay in getting the final TAGs done. They werent complicated but I was just lazy. Only took me an hour to plough through them once I got going.

Small Carnivore TAG 2009
Out
African Clawless Otter
Three Striped Palm Civet
Central American Cacomistle
African Civet
Large Spotted Genet
Banded Palm Civet
American Marten
Ermine
Steppe Polecat
Long tailed Weasel
Brown Nosed Coati
American Mink
Eastern Spotted Skunk
Owston’s Palm Civet (none were brought in but they had hoped to acquire a small founder stock in 2005 however the situation in Vietnam changed and they are focusing on conservation in the wild instead)

In
Technically none but some increases of note.
Upgrades for giant otters and spotted necked otters to SSPs
Fossas (they want to upgrade to SSP but need more founders)
While some are going increases are significant for...
Red pandas
Asian small clawed otter
Black footed ferrets
North American river Otter
Giant otter (big push for more)
Binturong
Meerkats

Growth is wanted for
Wolverines
Fishers

Snakes TAG 2010
No changes.

Tapir TAG 2010
Out
Brazilian Tapir
Mountain Tapir
Both are on phase out due to small population size (Brazilians only have 12 males 9 females, most of which are geriatric. Mountains have 5 males 3 females and are highly unlikely to get more founders). The Brazilians are well represented in other regions though. With only 110 spots available for tapirs they would like to grow the populations of the other two species with better populations and higher institutional interest.

In
None

Turaco and Cuckoo TAG 2010
Out
Coral-Billed Ground Cuckoo
Greater Coucal
Grean Turaco
Schalow;s Turaco
Livingston’s Turaco
Fishcer’s Turaco
Hartlaub’s Turaco
Purple Crested Turaco
Grey Go Way Bird
Bare Faced Go away Bird
All that are being phased out have a population of 10 or less. In most cases one or two birds only. Not enough to build a founder base.

In
None

Wild Pig, Peccary and Hippo TAG 2008
Out
Giant Forest hog
Cape Bush Pig

In
Pygmy Hog

On a side note I just got my first copy of the AZA's magazine. Its mostly filled with zoo related ads... exhibit design firms, aquarium builders, food and enrichement suppliers... generally a waste of time for people like me who wouldnt be interested in that. There are however articles on crane breeding particularly Hooded Cranes and Wattled Cranes, another on Amur tigers and leopards (which i havent read), something boring on fish and another article which escapes me. If anyone is interested let me know and I can see what I can do to share them. Hopefully a quick scan will work.
 
Thank you for those last bits of information, TZFan! I don't think those last ones to be all too bad phase-out wise as many they can't hope to keep though I think they shouldn't give up palm civets (though I know the AZA has one left) and genets. I've seen both a Banded Palm Civet and a Cape Genet recently and I found both small carnivores to be very active and entertaining animals! I personally found the genet to be quite cute and I couldn't get enough of watching it run around it's enclosure and climb the fake tree.

Do you have more information on the Pygmy Hog phase-in and the Speckled-Necked Otter plan? Thanks.

~Thylo:cool:
 
TZFan said:
+

Small Carnivore TAG 2009
Out: African Clawless Otter; Three Striped Palm Civet; Central American Cacomistle; African Civet; Large Spotted Genet; Banded Palm Civet;
American Marten; Ermine; Steppe Polecat; Long tailed Weasel; Brown Nosed Coati; American Mink; Eastern Spotted Skunk;
Owston’s Palm Civet (none were brought in but they had hoped to acquire a small founder stock in 2005 however the situation in Vietnam changed and they are focusing on conservation in the wild instead)
In: Technically none but some increases of note: Upgrades for giant otters and spotted necked otters to SSPs; Fossas (they want to upgrade to SSP but need more founders)
While some are going increases are significant for: Red pandas; Asian small clawed otter; Black footed ferrets; North American river Otter; Giant otter (big push for more); Binturong; Meerkats
Growth is wanted for: Wolverines; Fishers

Tapir TAG 2010
Out: Brazilian Tapir; Mountain Tapir. Both are on phase out due to small population size (Brazilians only have 12 males 9 females, most of which are geriatric. Mountains have 5 males 3 females and are highly unlikely to get more founders). The Brazilians are well represented in other regions though. With only 110 spots available for tapirs they would like to grow the populations of the other two species with better populations and higher institutional interest.
In: None

Turaco and Cuckoo TAG 2010
Out: Coral-Billed Ground Cuckoo; Greater Coucal; Grean, Schalow's Turaco, Livingston’s, Fishcer’s, Hartlaub’s and Purple Crested Turacos;
Grey and Bare-Faced Go away Bird
All that are being phased out have a population of 10 or less. In most cases one or two birds only. Not enough to build a founder base.
In: None

Wild Pig, Peccary and Hippo TAG 2008
Out: Giant Forest hog; Cape Bush Pig
In: Pygmy Hog
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Thanks TZFan for the list. Once again, I can understand some of the choices, but I still feel it's a shame that zoos are giving up on some endangered species and preventing them from having a back-up captive population incase they become extinct in the wild. Over 20 years ago, Gerald Durrell went to Madagascr ro collect animals that were threatened by habitat destruction. Shouldn't other conservationists follow his example and set up captive populations of species in the hope of breeding them?

I get tired of hearing about zoos saving popular species that already have massive captive populations with no hope of reintroduction to the wild; in fact the money spent on expensive large enclosures would be far better spent preserving natural habitats for these species and others. I think it even more of a nonsense to read that the Small Carnivore Tag is aiming for a big push for meerkats, which are already over-represented in zoos and have no real conservation interest, even though some species that I have never seen and have some conservation value are being phased out.
 
The pygmy hog population was to go from zero to 50 by 2011. I dont know if the goal is achieved. They wanted to bring in founder stock from India. It specifically says...

The pygmy hog is the smallest of the suids and is considered highly endangered. For several years a local NGO, Ecosystems India and the Indian Government have successfully established a captive breeding program with the intentions of reintroducing the species back into the wild. A number of institutions are working on a potential import of founder animals for an AZA population.
 
TZFan said:
The pygmy hog population was to go from zero to 50 by 2011. I dont know if the goal is achieved. They wanted to bring in founder stock from India. It specifically says...

The pygmy hog is the smallest of the suids and is considered highly endangered. For several years a local NGO, Ecosystems India and the Indian Government have successfully established a captive breeding program with the intentions of reintroducing the species back into the wild. A number of institutions are working on a potential import of founder animals for an AZA population.
Click to expand...

I don't think any western zoos have Pygmy Hogs at the moment.

~Thylo:cool:
 
I think you're right, Thylo

I know someone who has been working on the conservation of pygmy hogs and hispid hares in Asaam, but he didn't mention that any pygmy hogs would be going to zoos.
 
The TAG is 5 years old and realistically India might have decided not to give AZA institutions any. When the next TAG comes out for this group... Im thinking later this year based on the 5 years most of these seem to say they are updated... They will probably drop off the list or be a species of insterest or phase out if the AZA couldnt get any. All depends on whats happened in the last 5 years.

With the spotted necked otter the current plan is to continue breeding, import more founders, encourage founders who havent bred to breed and get additional space from zoos where they can replace North American River otters or Asian Clawless Otters. Not that that means they are replacing either of those species its just a fair number of zoos have space for the other species but the animals dont currently exist to fill the spots. Except the African Clawless Otter all other otter species are still to grow their populations. Its just that if a zoo has space for otters but no otters of the type they wanted the AZA is recommending they consider taking in the two SSP species, African Spotted Necked Otters and Giant otters to help grow their popupations. The African Clawless is out because it is currently not breeding well where as the Spotted is. With both having such small populations (7 for the clawless and 27 for the Spotted) the space is needed for just one African species and the spotted otters have a better founder base and breeding potential.

In the case of the meerkats the population growth they wanted was about 50 animals. In a population of 500 thats not a lot. The meerkats have a fairly high number of animals with some degree of an unknown pedigree which usually means no breeding them. The increase of 50 might just be animals with a known pedigree being added to the population to eventually replace those with unknown pedigrees as they die out. The TAG does strongly recommend that any zoos looking to get into meerkats talk to the meerkat population manager so they can make appropriate plans like possibly taking in a non breeding single sexed sibling group or two to avoid inbreeding. And it sounds like importing new founders is being slightly discouraged as they tend not to breed and there are AZA meerkats needing new homes. I think the goal is to keep the number around 500-550 and let the animals with unknown pedigree slowly be replaced by fully pedigreed animals.

Hopefully I explained all that ok... If not let me know.

I was happy to see so few animals getting the ax in these groups. In the small carnivore group none of the phase outs have more than 12 animals, except the brown nosed coati (34), and many have only 2 or 3. The civets and genet fall in that category. Most said they dont have the ability to get more founders.
 
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