Jelle- shifting a bit to the Port Lympne Rhino situation- do you know which current bulls they are breeding from? I knew of Addo and Jos, but I think there are more ? [unquote]
I am afraid both Addo and Jos are deceased. Both have been bred though, allthough Addo or Gareth Edwards as he was affectionately known is a far superior individual in these stakes. It is sad that Jos was just developping into a nice mature bull ready for the big time. I will check with Port Lympne staff what really happened to him!
Port Lympne Wild Animal Park Port Lympne black rhino
- Thread starter Kifaru Bwana
- Start date
oh ***** 
I had no idea that Jos was dead. Now I see why you said that Quinto and Kingo are the only mature bulls in the UK. A great shame about Jos as he had only started breeding there in recent years. At least Addo had sired a good number of calves.
What is port Lympne's oldest bull currently? (It must be a son of either Addo or Kingo...)
Well, this makes me think that Port Lympne need Quinto NOW!!!
As you said, Paignton could send Kingo to Chester (he's no use at Port Lympne) to replace him.
I had no idea that Jos was dead. Now I see why you said that Quinto and Kingo are the only mature bulls in the UK. A great shame about Jos as he had only started breeding there in recent years. At least Addo had sired a good number of calves.What is port Lympne's oldest bull currently? (It must be a son of either Addo or Kingo...)
Well, this makes me think that Port Lympne need Quinto NOW!!!
As you said, Paignton could send Kingo to Chester (he's no use at Port Lympne) to replace him.
By my own reckoning it must be either 'Limpopo' (Kingo x Etna) or Vungu(Kingo x Vuyu) provided neither was sent back to Africa. They were born in 2001 so are only 6 years old. Addo has two sons also; Manyara(xJaga) and ZambezI (x Nakuru) born in 2002, so five years old...
.... so NO mature bull there. They may well ask for Kingo back unless they can have Quinto.
They obviously couldn't borrow 'Quinto' from Chester unless it was agreed with the s/b keeper but I think they could reclaim 'Kingo' from Paignton as he is 'their' male. They still 'own' their animals rather than by EEP arrangement,at least to some extent, I think. But there have been several rhino bulls loaned to Chester from Port Lympne, so there is a good relationship between them.
It is normally. I think Port Lympne as a main player in Black Rhino breeding has a lot of influence though- also Kingo at Paignton is presumably on loan from them so they could ask for him back. As Port Lympne have sent several male rhino to Chester previously, it might be time for a return favour.
Yes, but he's not a proven bull yet. It might help him get mating experience though.... Its occurred to me if Sammy went to Port Lympne, and the experienced Kingo(from Paignton) replaced him at Chester, Manyara and Kitani in the Tsavo area could be in calf a lot quicker...
Also,according to Jelle, Port Lympne currently have about six mature females in need of mating, a tall order for an unproven male..
The current mature bull at Port Lympne is Baringo II, who resided at Chester Zoo for a while. I will have to check with their management to see what is happening with regard to breeding right now. Will get back on this.
All other bulls were born after 2000 and are too laddish: Limpopo, Manyara, Zambezi II and Monduli. Bull Vungu was sent to Bekesbourne in 2004/5 (and has been paired with 2 young adult females).
For what it is worth: I find the arrangement of Port Lympne in the EEP somewhat peculiar. I applaud their stance on reintroducing rhinos back to Africa, but have a few qualms about their meagre input into the EEP right now (save for their good relationship with Chester Zoo over the years). I would really like to see them get more "involved" in continental black rhino affairs (their current contribution is only one male at Dvur). 
All other bulls were born after 2000 and are too laddish: Limpopo, Manyara, Zambezi II and Monduli. Bull Vungu was sent to Bekesbourne in 2004/5 (and has been paired with 2 young adult females).
For what it is worth: I find the arrangement of Port Lympne in the EEP somewhat peculiar.
I applaud their stance on reintroducing rhinos back to Africa, but have a few qualms about their meagre input into the EEP right now (save for their good relationship with Chester Zoo over the years). I would really like to see them get more "involved" in continental black rhino affairs (their current contribution is only one male at Dvur). At the time they decided to send Kingo as he was already a proven breeder while at Port Lympne. And the calf is prove he is a do-gooder!
Anyhow, with regard to rhino bulls, I sincerely hope that some form of coop management with the American SSP can be forged. They have a surplus of males ...
Good candidates are at Birmingham, Little Rock, Garden City and Portland. The current mature bull at Port Lympne is Baringo II, who resided at Chester Zoo for a while.
For what it is worth: I find the arrangement of Port Lympne in the EEP somewhat peculiar.
1. I had forgotten about Baringo II- somehow It thought he'd been exported too after leaving Chester.. He can breed with some of the Port Lympne females, but several are related to him(Nakuru, Solio, Arusha & Rukwa)
Has he any offspring now?
2. H/PL have historically always acted independantly of EEP recommendations. More so in the past when they were very independant and not involved at all, ignoring any requests(such as Gorilla transfers) made to them. Nowadays they do seem more in tune with EEP though most animal exchanges they make still always benefit them the most(!!)... With the rhinos as you know there have been several movements of surplus males, but they always 'stockpile' the females and don't send them out to other zoos(though they've sent females to Africa.) though they also aquire females from other places(its a one way traffic...
.)3. Regarding the current Black rhinos situation- it sounds like the UK(specially Port Lympne) would benefit from at least one totally unrelated mature bull from the USA. and who would be used initially at PL.
1. Baringo II has no offspring to my knowledge, will check with management. And his relatedness to 4 out of 6 females is a management issue of sorts. Definitely in need of an unrelated male (with few to go around within the EEP).
2. Port Lympne is now more involved in the EEP Black Rhino, but coop could still be improved. The practice to hold on to all females is detrimental to them breeding. Berlin Zoo, Dvur Kralove Zoo and Zuerich Zoo have all unrelated proven breeding bulls. It is imperative that - apart from their excellent reintroduction work - that they attach themselves more to the Coordinator and the EEP programme. *** Mind you I am a rhino supporter there ***
3. As I observed already the EEP as a whole - not just Port Lympne - is in need of several unrelated individuals, especially the bulls. Another example where global species management comes into play. Looking at the 38.30 in US zoos, the obvious surplus in the bull sector makes for striving to obtain at least 2 from AZA/Black Rhino SSP institutions.
2. Port Lympne is now more involved in the EEP Black Rhino, but coop could still be improved. The practice to hold on to all females is detrimental to them breeding. Berlin Zoo, Dvur Kralove Zoo and Zuerich Zoo have all unrelated proven breeding bulls. It is imperative that - apart from their excellent reintroduction work - that they attach themselves more to the Coordinator and the EEP programme. *** Mind you I am a rhino supporter there ***
3. As I observed already the EEP as a whole - not just Port Lympne - is in need of several unrelated individuals, especially the bulls. Another example where global species management comes into play. Looking at the 38.30 in US zoos, the obvious surplus in the bull sector makes for striving to obtain at least 2 from AZA/Black Rhino SSP institutions.
1. PL would maybe have done better to retain 'KataKata' (Bwana x Mama), rather than Baringo II. as he was not related to ANY other PL rhinos. He also went to Chester(where non-breeding Rosie is his fullsister) for a time and is now in France. I ddidn't breed in UK- I don't know if he's bred in France but he hasn't been there long..
2. I believe the term for PL's involvement with EEP is 'affiliated' It sort of means they are partially involved unlike all the other zoos which are fully involved.
3. Its time for a few males to come from the USA> A similar situation as with Gorillas perhaps?
Upali
Well-Known Member
Limpopo was one of the pair sent back to Africa earlier this year and Manyara and Zambezi live together in the african safari exhibit. Also don't they have a number of young rhinos at the moment. Even though they don't exchange animals enough, PL's ideas are some of the best around - releasing gorillas and rhinos back to Africa!
Gorilla's OK, but i don't see the point of sending rhino's back to Africa when all you do is weaken the european population to such an extent that you'll need fresh imports in order for them to survive and have a healthy population here...
taun
Well-Known Member
Yes but whats the point sending animals that are needed for the european breeding program back to africa, if your going to ask for some more in a few years to boost the gene pool?
Yes maybe send surplus over represented rhino back to the wild, so you free up space in european collection. These can then be used to breed with wild rhino's maybe.
Yes maybe send surplus over represented rhino back to the wild, so you free up space in european collection. These can then be used to breed with wild rhino's maybe.