Possible big cat kill?

bigcat speciali said:
Oh may be try reading the dribble from the British Big Cat Society or other numerous cryptozoological sites, or even the National press of last year and years before. You will find that these groups and papers such as Daily Mail say that there are 2220 sightings and others state even more. Such groups go on to state that there must be in their view huge populations roaming free and breeding wild in the UK! Yes, there are many, many non-native species of flora and fauna out there in the UK however, not big cats.
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I am not saying there are big cats, I have been very careful with my wording. I have used the word 'if' deliberately. Also if you could provide me with a link to the information you have mentioned it would be very helpful as I would like to read the literature that is out there.

I am no expert on this matter and don't claim to be (and I am certainly no member of the British Big Cats Society), but I am interested in this story and would like to know what they find out.
 
Mr T said:
it suggested that tigers, lions, leopards, cougars and jaguars could all breed with each other. Does anyone know if this is true. If it is true then I would suggest that if there were any big cats roaming the wilds of the UK, then they would probably be hybrids.
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Several hybrids have been recorded in captivity; Tiger x Lion, Lion x Leopard, Puma x Leopard, Lion x Jaguar. I think it very unlikely Tigers or Lions or Tiger/Lion hybrids have ever been at large in the UK. They are too obvious, both by sight and sound, to escape detection permanently. I think that the hybrid theory is unlikely too.

If there are large non-native cats at large(or even self sustaining) I would suggest European Lynx as being the most likely candidate- this is a commonly kept Zoo/Wildlife Park species and is also the one most closely adapted to the British countryside and climate, being a European woodland dweller.

It is worth remembering that people discounted the existence of the Black Highland 'Kellas' cats for many years until they were proven to exist, as a regressive hybrid between the Scottish wildcat and domestic cats.
 
In the mid 70’s a local man used to keep a couple of female lions (Louis Foley), he used to walk them in the local park (Haden Hill).

When the new regulations came into power he stated in the local press at the time that himself and 2 friends who had 8 smaller cats between them would have to let them go as they could not afford all the required new measures.

Louis Foley managed to rehouse his Lionesses but his friends did let their cats go 4 lynx around the Clent Hills area of the Midlands and 4 more Lynx in the Cannock Chase area of the Midlands, consequently 6 weeks after their release notices appeared over the Clent Hills National Park asking people to keep their dogs under control as they were attacking and killing the local sheep.

We had many reports in the local papers at the time but they always claimed the attacks were by stray dogs even after the farmers concerned kept stating that the attacks showed classic signs of a cat attack, one report did state that there were claw marks to the rear of the sheep and throat had been bittern but this was ridiculed by the locals.

About 10years ago we had a strange situation where I live not far from Clent Hills we had loads of foxes due to people (me included) feeding them, then there were sightings of a beige coloured medium sized cat by quite a few people including a police officer who later said it was definitely a Labrador dog with pointed ears and no tail (taken from old paper clipping) within a few days we had NO foxes anywhere in the area yet these sightings kept being reported.

Then just as suddenly the sightings stopped and within a few weeks we had just as many foxes back the question is why did the foxes disappear while the sightings where happening and why did they come back when the sightings stopped.

Just for the record I don’t think there are large cats out there but do wonder if there are medium or small cats out there until someone can prove 100% that there are not or are we will all wonder

I am someone who does not claim to be an expert but does read paper reports and talk to local farmers who to this day claim to see meduim sized cats around there fields but don't report them as they say no one takes them seriously anymore due to debunkers who try and make fun of them all the time.
 
adrian1963 said:
including a police officer who later said it was definitely a Labrador dog with pointed ears and no tail (taken from old paper clipping) within a few days we had NO foxes anywhere in the area yet these sightings kept being reported.
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The Police Officer wouldn't be a very reliable witness then, or doesn't know his dog breeds- Labradors do not have pointed ears or docked tails, so (though possibly a dog) it was not a Labrador.

Your story of the release of the Lynx is another example of the deliberate releases of 'expet' felines which occurred after the Dangerous Wild Animals Act came in to force.

Regarding the foxes- I am not sure of the exact relationship between foxes and larger feline predators as they don't normally occur together in the UK, but it would likely to be one of avoidance by the Foxes, since any larger cat species could conceivably kill them.
 
@Pertinax the Police Officer changed his story after the original was made public which at the time and today still seems a little funny.

I have just recieved a e-mail from a friend on another site (wildlife photography site) and she as said foxes will leave an area if thier are larger animals in the area which kill the same food supply as foxes will not defend themselves against a larger predator.
I now wonder as to wether thier was a cat of some description in the area or a feral dog of the labrador size
 
adrian1963 said:
@Pertinax the Police Officer changed his story after the original was made public which at the time and today still seems a little funny.

I have just recieved a e-mail from a friend on another site (wildlife photography site) and she as said foxes will leave an area if thier are larger animals in the area which kill the same food supply as foxes will not defend themselves against a larger predator.
I now wonder as to wether thier was a cat of some description in the area or a feral dog of the labrador size
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Foxes depending if they are urban or rural do act in essence slightly differently, which is obvious given their background. Rural foxes, will be spooked by numerous smells, noise, persons, vehicles etc. Whereas, urban foxes react differently such as; not being affraid of people or vehicles or by certain noise which is well documented, such as seen with the fox attack on the child of recent which made national news. Again, its a bit of an urban myth that foxes will run, hide and not defend themselves when threatened, ask many a gamekeeper, farmer, or pest controller as example. Have personal experience where I have seen foxes take on small dogs, climb fences and steel turkeys, pheasants and even rhea. Have seen foxes climb trees getting to and chassing game, have witnessed many a fox take on animals even badgers. Why jump to the assumption that this is of a big cat? Occums Razor applied, common sense applied gives more reason to suggest that either a dog was present or that the persons just never saw what they thought, a scotopic version.
 
@bigcat special I just passed on what was sent to me via e-mail from someone who as studied foxes and kept them for over 30 years

Why do you always fall back on the it must be a dog story this as been proved to be a debunkers story line.

I have said I am not sure as to wether big cats do roam our countryside and I just asked a question on here of something that happened and to this day the authorites will not give anyone who asks a clear answer as to what and why.

The answers that have been published in the local press over the years make you laugh
It's a dog with Pointed ears and no tail
It's a dog that looks like a cat
It's an escaped pet
It's an old animal of some description
It's a model used by farmers to protect the livestock.
The foxes found some where better to go
it goes on and on and on.

I again do not believe there are big cats out there it's just that the authorites give cause to think there maybe because they keep changing the stories
 
bigcat speciali said:
Have personal experience where I have seen foxes take on small dogs, climb fences and steel turkeys, pheasants and even rhea. Have seen foxes climb trees getting to and chassing game, have witnessed many a fox take on animals even badgers. Why jump to the assumption that this is of a big cat? .
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I have also seen video of a Fox facing/threatening an oncoming pack of Hounds too.

However I don't think anyone is 'assuming' there is a Big Cat- just looking at various angles of the 'evidence'.
 
I spend most of my time in Mid Wales where such stories are incredibly frequent, I love spending time on the upland moors, the 'Welsh Desert'.

Both west and east fringes of this area seem to be perfect habitat for such creatures, providing ample woodland cover and are very sparsely populated. The moorland areas themselves are the grazing grounds for tens of thousands of sheep and various wild animals year-round and are less exposed than it first appears. The local farmers I have spoken to expect to lose up to 5% of their stock per year without explanation or trace; some through small-scale rustling, some through falls or drowning, perhaps some through predators. All of them strongly believe that there are big cats in the area, and many claim to have had encounters.

I personally have had some interesting experiences with animals around my property in Wales, on two separate occasions and in two separate(and both very remote) properties I have had large stray dogs(one Doberman, one Dane) take up residence in my garden and frighten the living daylights out of me(I'm not fond of dogs!). I have also seen other animals which I would be reluctant to describe as 'big cat' sightings, but certainly made me uneasy at the time.

While I wouldn't say I'm convinced they are living in the wild in the UK, I believe it is more likely than not that at least a few individuals are active at any one time.

I have some photographs I took that illustrate some of the points above that I'm looking for and will post when I find them.
 
As promised: one of the frightening large dogs that decided to take up residence. This thing wandering around could easily be seen by the untrained eye as something more.
 

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Rockwieller tell by the head straight away and body mass and I am no expert in dogs either but that is to obvious to be anything else.
 
Having just read this thread there was a program on Animal planet a few years ago (Could of been in 2009) about big cats in the UK. The program started with big cats in other countries (Africa, lions) but it then moved on to an interesting part with a couple seeing a big cat out in the open in I think it was Dorset. It was a forest type of region and to me and others it seems like a black leopard. I think it was in the 1970's or 1980's as has been mentioned with the new measures being brought into place a lot of owners couldn't look after the cats they had and so let them loose. I read in my local paper that there was a big cat sighting in earlier 2011 in a huge park, there was deer kills, scatterings and paw marks. Some believe it was from dogs which are up there 96% of the time but the paw mark matched the same one as a black leopard. In the same area was smaller rabbit and bird kills which some thought was an Ocelot but there was no prove to clear that up, other than it being stuffed up a tree.
 
adrian1963 said:
Rockwieller tell by the head straight away and body mass and I am no expert in dogs either but that is to obvious to be anything else.
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Is a rockwieller made of stone?

5 or 6 years ago I was out walking with 4 others. We saw an animal cross the far corner of a field. To this day 2 of the people swear it was a black big cat, 2 laugh at them and I didn't really see well enough to say anything!
 
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Possible big cat kill

Dorset is crawling with big cats, if all the reports are to be believed. I've lived here since 1974 and not seen one [although we did catch an escaped Budgie once]. A local [self styled] authority on the subject thinks they are a supernatural phenomenon, and not flesh & blood animals at all. I do have a big black dog, which is real enough.
 
I live in ayrshire... there is the deer and rabbit population to support big cats. In 2009 a horse was attacked... i know the vet that attended to the horse and he swears it was a big cat attack ( Big cat fears at holiday park as horse is mauled by 'puma' | Mail Online ) Ive a friend that live in the country that no longer walk at night because of the times he has spotted a big cat.

Personally I dont think I will believe until I have seen one with my own eyes. But i a interested in hearing that the DNA results conclude. Dont understand why its not been carried out before this tho.
 
Interesting that the DNA results have yet to bet released when they said they should be done by the end of last week. Guess we will just have to wait a little longer.
 
The North Devon/Somerset border is another Big Cat 'hotspot'. Apart from the 'Exmoor Beast' and the 'Barnstaple puma' there have been frequent sightings of supposed Big Cats in this area over several decades, including the production of the usual grainy video footage that is always so tantilising as the animals are never clear. A local naturalist Trevor Beer produced a booklet on them and has done extensive searches in the area. This includes finding deer kills lodged up a tree(a classic Leopard sign), but I still think no irrefutible evidence has been produced afaik.
 
@Jwer & Orange Person I was that scared I couldn't spell I was going to put cuddly tay but couldn't spell toy at the time either ha ha ha ha
 
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adrian1963 said:
@Jwer & Orange Person I was that scared I couldn't spell I was going to put cuddly tay but couldn't spell toy at the time either ha ha ha ha
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While no doubt amusing to some, having that thing in my garden out of the blue was even more alarming and frightening to me than had it been any kind of cat(which I have worked with closely). My property is very remote and it must have traveled quite a distance by itself just to get here. It left of it's own accord within a few hours.

Appreciate the correction on the breed, although I hope never to have to see one again!
 
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