Possible big cat kill?

The dead lioness was covered in Fortean Times recently (within the last year).

It was an ex-circus animal dumped in the 1970s when dead. Not ever claimed as being wild.

However I do think something is out there-3 people I know including a family member have seen large cats, one of them an ex-policeman, in different places in Hampshire in the last 2 years.

The family member only told me when I asked why there hadn't been any deer around their property recently-didn't know I had an interest in the subject.

I don't think its necessarily a big cat but possibly a feral cat grown to large size-sometimes known as Kellas cats. I've seen a photo of an Australian feral cat skin four times the size of an normal moggy.
 
Gary said:
3 people I know including a family member have seen large cats, one of them an ex-policeman, in different places in Hampshire in the last 2 years.

I don't think its necessarily a big cat but possibly a feral cat grown to large size-sometimes known as Kellas cats.
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Its interesting that Policeman or ex Policeman are sometimes mentioned specifically in these sightings, presumably because they would be deemed as truthful witnsses rather than for any expertise in identifying unusual animals.

I wouldn't take their statements as fact though. I've seen a video shot by (i think it was) a policeman of a 'big cat' on a railwayline- it is very clearly, by comparison with both the railway track, and its typical relaxed behaviour, an ordinary sized black domestic cat.

'Kellas Cat' normally only refers to Scottish wildcat x domestic cat hyrids and they are not normally any larger than the parent animals.
 
I read the other day on BBC News ... the new reports have all been confirmed to be no exotic felids.

People watch too much Animal Planet these days! :)


I remember also a few years back ... big time London feline.
It turned out to be a biggy domestic moggy cat.

Thank you :cool:
 
(Taken from the Herald news paper, Scotland, 4th Feb 2012)

Here's to those determined big cat trackers in Gloucestershire with their night vision goggles, telephoto lenses and recording equipment.

They have quite rightly dismissed recent DNA tests on a deer carcass that claim a fox was responsible. Why would a fox attack something that wasn't in a bin liner?

The incidents began a few weeks back when various weekend residents of pretty Cotswold villages found their City bonuses mauled and strewn across the lawn. Anxious parents brought forward the dates of their children's BCG jab – the so-called Big Cat Guard booster – and everyone began logging onto Big Cat Monitors.co.uk which, incidentally, is a genuine website and not the superstore in which your average puma around town buys his flat-screen TV.

The sightings are by no means restricted to the south, of course. Scotland has enjoyed more than its fair share, since many big cats have relocated to the north, attracted by its wide open spaces, discarded pizza boxes and opportunity to take part in referendums.

In 2004 there were stories about the Coulport Cougar, seen near Loch Long. In 2007, the Banffshire Journal carried a breathless report about a "big, black, panther-like animal" that was seen near the Banff Links, although sadly no mention was made of its handicap. In 2009, another panther-sized big cat was seen walking along the railway line in Helensburgh. Shaun Stevens, a researcher for Big Cats in Britain – another genuine body, in case you're wondering, and not a list of the nation's millionaires – commented: "Knowing the width of the rail tracks in the video is four feet, eight-and-a-half inches, the animal photographed is clearly in excess of four feet." This statement sent members of Panthers, Railways and Train Timetables into paroxysms of joy. Or would have done if such a group existed.

The video footage of these and other sightings is oddly compelling. Often you hear nothing but the sound of the wind, or the breathing of the person holding the mobile or camera. Then the creature appears, walking along the top of a dry stone dyke, or skulking at the edge of a field. We want these stories to be true, want something untamed to be out there, free. Big cats, Big Foot, the Yeti, all of them. Instead, we just have the Not Yeti, so familiar to parents. "Have you done your homework?" You know the response. - end quote

I do believe the news paper article says it all, and the so-called and self-proclaimed "expert bigcat tracker" by the name of Frank Tunbridge who was on BBC Radio 4 2nd Feb 2012 "Is this the Gloucestershire Growler on the lose?". The reporter mocks the man somewhat but in essence when asked: "have you ever caught any in your traps Frank? - No he replied. I am 100% sure that they are out there, he said. And that's despite the DNA report coming back negative. Those people such as Frank Tunbridge, Rick Minter, Shaun Stevens, Danny Bamping et al. They are what we call "enthusiasts" and not what they want their ego-persona wishes to be, an "expert". Oooo if there is just a few words that I dislike, that's one of them.
 
BGS.

Yes, your expose and historical ramblings say it all. A bloody hoax! :eek:

As to expert or enthusiast quip, I would generally agree ... just to say that if one has real and prolonged field experience and with/without a biological background you may be classed as one.

I do admit that particularly in newspapers or on television quite a number of times whether it is stuff zoological or otherwise (of a more general political or newsworthy nature) that these so-called experts SEEM to pop up out of the woodwork. They have a nasty habit of being almost religious in their beliefs ... relishing in the attention given to them. Alas they tend to be somewhat unreliable and unscientific ... in outlook and comment.

K.B.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
BGS.

Yes, your expose and historical ramblings say it all. A bloody hoax! :eek:

As to expert or enthusiast quip, I would generally agree ... just to say that if one has real and prolonged field experience and with/without a biological background you may be classed as one.

I do admit that particularly in newspapers or on television quite a number of times whether it is stuff zoological or otherwise of a more general political or newsworthy nature that these so-called experts pop up out of the woodwork. They have a nasty habit of being almost religious in their beliefs ... and hence tend to be somewhat unreliable and unscientific ... in outlook and comment.
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I have to agree with you regarding these so-called experts who bash ther ego-self with head-butting hate of zoos and zoo staff, such as ourselves. They do indeed pop up with a nasty habit. At Glasgow, we had a good amount of work with our cats as did and many other collections do. Some collection jump on the merry bandwagon, hailing the beast of Exmoor or what ever they see to bring in the punter. Rather than using skills that could be better atuned to conservation rather than myth stories. Okay so it brings in some funds, but its not the real zoo experience where we are all trying to educate the mass populas, to conserve those creatures we love and work with and more, to be seen to be mature and working towards the better for the right of the better. When someone shouts out...I saw this and it looked like that, then the stone rolls and rolls, others then say they too saw this or that and then before long we have a load of people saying they saw this and that. I sit on the side of that we don't have big cats roaming free and breeding in the UK. However, until the tall-stories and the myth making simmers down, then sadly we shall always have these big tall-stories and silly news paper articles, silly so-called experts baying us with their belief. Opinions matter but not at the expence of ego-headbutting!
 
Gary said:
The dead lioness was covered in Fortean Times recently (within the last year).

It was an ex-circus animal dumped in the 1970s when dead. Not ever claimed as being wild.
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ah I must have forgotten the circus part in the intervening years!
 
mazfc said:
Though childonis I think Ray Mears is much tougher than Bear Grylls, and could definitely bring down a deer with his bare hands! :eek:QUOTE]

Darn right about Mears mazfc :D

Now we have had the results back from the labs and the verdict has been passed as Fox DNA present and with nothing related to big (or any!) cat activity the case for these 'creatures' continues.

Personally I would not be suprised if there are or have been a low number of individual 'big cats' roaming and hunting in the UK (released by owners), but certianly not breeding populations.
Also, if a big cat DID happen to kill something and DNA testing proved this, there is no way the truth would be allowed to be given to the public in my opinion.
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I think any evidence would be quickly and quietly hushed up. Imagine if the Daily Heil started running headlines like 'Killer big cats on the loose drive down property prices!'.

There would be mass panic and hysteria if anyone ever confirmed big cats did live in the UK. The army has been called in, as before when things have been whipped up by a media frenzy a la Beast of Bodmin.

And my local force rather embarrased themselves recently over a toy tiger. Although my point earlier about a strange cat being seen by a policeman was made because they are trained to observe things-this lot came across as hysterical wallies!

My thinking is that perhaps a lot of people are seeing cats in shady, overgrown places which is why they see them as black-they may not actually be so-if they are feral cats they could actually be any colour/markings. This may have some perception on the sizing as well.

Some years ago I saw a mainly white cat which lived at my aunt's riding stable out in the field without anything to judge him against-he looked enormous-white animals often do-some sort of optical illusion.

He was a big feral tom but he was only on the upper scale size-wise-certainly not panther proportions.

I am aware that the Kellas Cat is not a breed-it was the name coined for the peculiar hybrids which simply serves the point I was making.
 
Here we go we know have a meteor from MARS how do we know it’s from mars it doesn’t say made in mars on it.

Sorry forgot the experts have said it’s from Mars now could someone please tell me how they know it’s from Mars they say (the experts) it has taken millions of years to reach us, so if that is the case how do they know it has come from Mars.

They (experts) say that it has been battered and knocked off course through it journey to Earth if that is the case then surely this piece of rock could have come from anywhere in space.

They (experts) say they may be able to tell if there was life on Mars from this rock who are they trying to kid unless someone as a sample of Rock from Mars from millions of years ago that they went and got themselves then surely they are only speculating.
These are well respected experts throughout the world and yet we are expected to believe this about a piece of rock.

I bet the so called people who believe everything the experts say will believe this piece of rock came from Mars.

Unfortunately I would rather believe there ARE big cats in the UK then this load of rubbish and I still DON’T believe there are any big cats but do still think there are hybrids of smaller cats in our countryside.

EDIT - Are experts really experts or are they just people who think they are experts because people they believe to be experts have told them they are experts?
 
I suppose 'expert' can only be investigated in context when sources are cited, so I can't answer your question as no sources have been cited.
 
Sources or experts belong to NASA, British space agency and many other space agencies.
I am still abit puzzled by the extent of the word expert being used not just for the Big Cat debate but in everyday use.
I do know a vet who's worked with animals all his life and many people call him an expert but as he will tell you an expert is someone that should know everything about that subject and thier is nothing else to find out about that subject in his case he will tell you no such person exsists as after 40 plus years as a vet he is still learning so therefore cannot be called an expert.

EDIT - Sorry for going off the topic of the thread will t6ry and go back to it, just to say the vet I know will tell you thier are NO big cats out thier but thier ARE small hybrid cats out there as he as treated small cross breed cats over the years.
 
It's quite funny to think they've found a 29 mm lizard but we can't manage to see a load of big cats that are supposed to be on the loose!!

I have little faith in the 'experts' they bring in on anything, in my experience the media will use anyone who backs up the story they want to tell, regardless of whether it is the truth.
 
OrangePerson said:
It's quite funny to think they've found a 29 mm lizard but we can't manage to see a load of big cats that are supposed to be on the loose!!

I have little faith in the 'experts' they bring in on anything, in my experience the media will use anyone who backs up the story they want to tell, regardless of whether it is the truth.
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Very True and very well put. I do believe the self-proclaimed "expert bigcat tracker" by the name of Frank Tunbridge who was on BBC Radio 4 2nd Feb 2012 "Is this the Gloucestershire Growler on the lose?". The reporter mocks the man somewhat but in essence when asked: "have you ever caught any in your traps Frank? - No he replied. I am 100% sure that they are out there, he said. And that's despite the DNA report coming back negative. Those people such as Frank Tunbridge, Rick Minter, Shaun Stevens, Danny Bamping et al. They are what we call "enthusiasts" and not what they want their ego-persona wishes to be, an "expert". Oooo if there is just a few words that I dislike, that's one of them.

While reading through many of the posts within a certain Gloucestershire paper, there seems to be a couple of posters (turning out to be the same person) who "troll" and also who go out of their way as "expert", The person called Chris2308 and also goes by Grand_Fromage, Dave_kemp, Andrew Powell, Panthera_Noir and some other names. This person who claims that lynx are breeding, are classed as big cats, have been seen in the wild roaming free in the UK. That a panther exists in it's black form and that this man then denounces everyone who says otherwise.
I know that London Zoo was involved in the capture of one Lynx and there was a Lynx shot (put in a freezer) however its dead and proves nothing, there is evidence of small to medium exotic cats that have been out and about the UK such as cross bred (hybrid) jungle cats with bengal cats as examples. But why is it that the vast majority of such called big cat sightings seem to be "black, a panther, bigger than "my" dog, bigger than a labrador, it's eyes were yellow" and so on?
The issue with the current spate of such sightings is attributed to the Sun news paper, the publishing and advertisement of Rick Minter's book, and a sad man called Frank Tunbridge, who keeps on saying that he is 100% sure that "they" are breeding and "are out there", and "there is proof". !

This story and that's what they are, these sightings, they are just stories and sadly the myth and hype will continue. May be the zoo community should oppose the likes of Tunbridge and Minter who see cryptids as a truth.
 
@Bigcat Special Quote This story and that's what they are, these sightings, they are just stories and sadly the myth and hype will continue. May be the zoo community should oppose the likes of Tunbridge and Minter who see cryptids as a truth.


Unfortunatly things like this could be said of many things until some concrete evidence turns up I take it everything must be a myth it brings to mind the one thing 80% of the worlds population believe in yet no one as ever provided concrete evidence it actually exsisted or even happened and I hate to go off topic but I am on about religion or the bible which ever one you want to say.
People will believe what they want to believe whether there is proof or not sometimes to thier own advantage (lochness monster ect, ect)
 
Pumas may be on the loose in Scotland as cat corpse is discovered

The Scotsman, By Will Lyon
Published on Saturday 19 May 2012

A DOG walker has stumbled upon the corpse of an animal experts believe may have been a puma near a Scottish beauty spot.

John Robertson, 50, was walking his two dogs along a rural path in Cullen, Moray, with his wife Pauline, on Monday when he found the remains of what appeared to be a cat the size of a large dog.

Just metres from the rotting corpse were the remains of what may have been its last meal – half a dozen mauled seagulls.

Mr Robertson, from Drybridge, Moray, said yesterday: “I was walking my two dogs on Monday morning when we came across all these dead birds scattered about everywhere.

“I couldn’t believe my eyes. I have never seen so many dead birds in one area. They were completely mauled, they had their guts totally ripped out of them lying on the ground.

“Then a little further on we came across a horrible rotting smell which was this big cat.

“It looks like it has feasted on the seagulls and maybe it has fallen down the cliff nearby, injured itself and just lay there till it died.”

But despite its 18-inch-long tail and its sharp teeth, Mr Robertson claimed the animal was a cub.

He said: “If you see its skin, it’s jet black and I actually think it’s a juvenile.

“I didn’t have a tape measure on me to measure the tail, but I’m a builder so I have a pretty good idea that it’s about 18 inches long, which is huge.

“I reckon it’s a cub – its teeth are too clean and there isn’t enough damage to them, which means they must be pretty new. If that’s a cub though, you can imagine how big its mother would be.

“I’m sure we’ll find out from the DNA tests what type of cat it is, but it certainly seems like one of the big cats.”

Bob Wallace, an expert with the Big Cats In Britain research group, is now studying the remains to determine what Mr Robertson found.

While the cat is not big enough to be an adult leopard or jaguar, Mr Wallace believes it is the right size to be a cub.

He said: “If it is a juvenile, it would have to be last year’s cub, as both leopards and jaguars mate between January and March.

“It is also hard to say whether this is the cat that is the subject of the spate of recent sightings.

“Over the past few years, there have been several reported sightings of black panther-type cats, as well as pumas and lynx.”

As recently as 16 April, there was a sighting of what was described as a cat-like animal as large as a labrador, by a man walking his dog at Rathven Burn in Moray.

That sighting was very similar to eyewitness accounts from just two months earlier.

In February, a man from Portgordon, also in Moray, said he saw an animal matching the same description beside an old railway line in the village. Later that week, there was a similar sighting at Buckpool Golf Club.
 
Lesley4444 said:
Just looked at the pictures and got to say, personally, from the shape of the tail and skull it looks like an otter.
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Agree, shape and length of tail, long body and short legs also indicate Otter- a badly decomposing one too and it has lost most of its fur- hence the smell and 'black' appearance of the skin.

The Seagulls may be completely unrelated or the work of a live Otter perhaps?
 
Here we go again I think like both Lesley4444 & pertinax with the Otter theory but the only thing that is throwing me a little are the shape and size of teeth not sure they look or belong to an otter but I don't think it's a big cat or cub
 
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