Taronga Zoo Recent history of Taronga and developments etc

[Zoofan15]

Chimbuka sorry I last saw the episode when it aired 13-14 years ago. Thats sad he never had much family support, and sad that when he and Bessie died it ended their close to 60 years family prescence at Taronga, but glad their family line lives on at Wellington, hopefully more if Malika (beautiful name) falls pregnant via Alexis.



Oh cool I missed the knowledge of Mogo's former tapirs being Melbourne's former breeding pair. No have zero evidence or confirmation that Larry left Taronga at the moment. Good theory about maybe he went to Adelaide.

Hey thought you both might find this interesting in relation to Mary the Mueller's gibbon's island. Would need @Hix's help with though - (I think Mary had a previous exhibit in south-west area of the zoo prior). In the doco' (tried to find copy of it but senior cameraman email replied saying doesnt have anymore and Channel 9 email replied doesnt have the tape in system anymore - advised contacting National Film, Sound and Archives Canberra for) - the doco' 'Orangutans on Stage' (1994) about their (Taronga's orangs' obvs') move to the 'Orangutan Rainforest' exhibit complex; had a brief side-story about how Mary's island for a very brief period around that time was inhabited by the zoo's squirrel monkeys; but they kept eating too many leaves or something like that, off the Moreton bay fig tree on the island so Mary was either returned to that exhibit or it became her new home from a former exhibit (dont know which of the latter two). Apparently there was also brief discussion about whether the orangutans could co-habitate or time-share the new exhibit with gibbon(s), but the zoo's crab-eating macaques were chosen instead.

It seems like Taronga originally aspired to build succession in their chimpanzee community by retention of female offspring with each of the founder females having daughters who bred in the community:

Fifi - Ficha
Bessie - Chiki and Belle
Lulu - Lucy and Lisa
Suzie - Gemini, Sutu and Shiba
Mary - Melissa
Biddy - Spitter

As these families expanded, some of these daughters were exported (often with their dependent offspring); with Mary’s line representing the only deliberate phase out - Mary’s only daughter was exported, along with her offspring; as well as all three of Mary’s sons.

This is in contrast to Bessie’s line which ended by circumstance (Chiki was intended for future breeding and may have had another daughter); and there were attempts to breed from Sacha, after a succession of sons (she also had a daughter who was exported in the 1990’s and a non-surviving daughter in 2002).

Taronga now follow the female dispersal method and at this stage, plan to transfer out Shiba’s daughter Sembe. I imagine Lemba and Safiri will follow once Lisa has passed.

 

[Jambo]

Hey thought you both might find this interesting in relation to Mary the Mueller's gibbon's island. Would need @Hix's help with though - (I think Mary had a previous exhibit in south-west area of the zoo prior). In the doco' (tried to find copy of it but senior cameraman email replied saying doesnt have anymore and Channel 9 email replied doesnt have the tape in system anymore - advised contacting National Film, Sound and Archives Canberra for) - the doco' 'Orangutans on Stage' (1994) about their (Taronga's orangs' obvs') move to the 'Orangutan Rainforest' exhibit complex; had a brief side-story about how Mary's island for a very brief period around that time was inhabited by the zoo's squirrel monkeys; but they kept eating too many leaves or something like that - off of the tree on the island; so Mary was either returned to that exhibit or it became her new home from a former exhibit (dont know which of the latter two). Apparently there was also brief discussion about whether the orangutans could co-habitate or time-share the new exhibit with gibbon(s), but the zoo's crab-eating macaques were chosen instead.

It would make sense if she was moved to the island following the Squirrel Monkeys not being able to inhabit it. I know there were gibbons in the former Great ape cages, alongside the Orangutans at the time, so I wonder whether Mary was initially kept here prior to move out onto the island alongside her mate in the mid 90's.

The island in question used to apparently held geese or swans. It appears that way looking at past maps from the 80's.

 

[Zoofan15]

It would make sense if she was moved to the island following the Squirrel Monkeys not being able to inhabit it. I know there were gibbons in the former Great ape cages, alongside the Orangutans at the time, so I wonder whether Mary was initially kept here prior to move out onto the island alongside her mate in the mid 90's.

The island in question used to apparently held geese or swans. It appears that way looking at past maps from the 80's.

There’s some information about Mary’s history here:

Vale Mary the Mueller’s Gibbon

Mary came to Australia in 1960 as an infant from Borneo and found a home at Taronga.

The grand old primate had many adventures during her long and colourful life. For many years she lived with her companion ‘Robinson’, swinging gracefully about the mighty fig tree on Gibbon Island.

After Robinson passed away in 1986, keepers tried to pair her up with other males, but Mary wasn’t interested. Unlike most primates, Gibbons mate for life.

During a severe storm in 1990, Mary’s Morton Bay fig tree fell over with her still clinging to the branches. Instead of fleeing, Mary ran straight into the arms of her keeper, Paul Davies, grateful to see a friendly face after the ordeal.

 

[steveroberts]

It would make sense if she was moved to the island following the Squirrel Monkeys not being able to inhabit it. I know there were gibbons in the former Great ape cages, alongside the Orangutans at the time, so I wonder whether Mary was initially kept here prior to move out onto the island alongside her mate in the mid 90's.

The island in question used to apparently held geese or swans. It appears that way looking at past maps from the 80's.

Yeah with geese and swans that makes sense. I dont think Mary and her once companion Robinson (think died around '86 or before edit: 1986 thanks Zoofan15) were in the former great ape cages (just the chimpanzees too until mid 1980). I think they had an exhibit very close to the great ape cages like along the same path but was seperate exhibit (and probably a lot nicer, think might of been another island in its latter years, maybe another concrete and bar exhibit before that).

Think (thanks @Zoofan15 ) that her former exhibit had a Moreton bay fig tree in too (I dont know if tree on current cottontop tamarin island/Mary's last home is Moreton bay fig or not, I assume it is too). But I think she and Robinson may of had another island exhibit near the old Great apes row etc).

edit: I remember the late Darill Clements said in her book that Mary rejected her next potential companion, a male Mueller's gibbon sent from Perth Zoo who spent his last days behind-the-scenes because Mary didnt warm to him.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yeah with geese and swans that makes sense. I dont think Mary and her once companion Robinson (think died around '86 or before) were in the former great ape cages (just the chimpanzees too until mid 1980). I think they had an exhibit very close to the great ape cages like along the same path but was seperate exhibit (and probably a lot nicer, think might of been another island in its latter years, maybe another concrete and bar exhibit before that).

I believe once the chimpanzees moved to the Chimpanzee Park in 1980, the orangutan colony were given the run of the cage block (that housed chimpanzees and orangutans) until the orangutans themselves moved to the Orangutan Rainforest in 1994.

It was my assumption the cage block was demolished at that point, being so outdated and far from the image of a modern zoo; but I could be mistaken.

 

[Jambo]

Yeah with geese and swans that makes sense. I dont think Mary and her once companion Robinson (think died around '86 or before) were in the former great ape cages (just the chimpanzees too until mid 1980). I think they had an exhibit very close to the great ape cages like along the same path but was seperate exhibit (and probably a lot nicer, think might of been another island in its latter years, maybe another concrete and bar exhibit before that).

Think (thanks @Zoofan15 ) that her former exhibit had a Moreton bay fig tree in too (I dont know if tree on current cottontop tamarin island/Mary's last home is Moreton bay fig or not, I assume it is too). But I think she and Robinson may of had another island exhibit near the old Great apes row etc).

That's entirely possible - it was just my assumption from looking at a map from 1990, although based on the article Zoofan referenced above it appears these must've been a different species of gibbons (not Mary) as she was on her island at the time.

I don't believe there was another island in that area; but I'd love to be proven wrong! The Free Flight Show is on the location of the former Great ape cages. The area appeared to have been redeveloped following the Orangutans moving across to their new home in 1994.

 

[steveroberts]

I believe once the chimpanzees moved to the Chimpanzee Park in 1980, the orangutan colony were given the run of the cage block (that housed chimpanzees and orangutans) until the orangutans themselves moved to the Orangutan Rainforest in 1994.

It was my assumption the cage block was demolished at that point, being so outdated and far from the image of a modern zoo; but I could be mistaken.

Yeah that was my understanding too man.

Yeah it was demolished as quickly as could be (albeit do remember walking past it as a barren relic c.1994 or 1995), as soon as funds were available - bam - demolished - Free Flight Bird Show amphitheatre construction began c.1995 or 1996 (I believe was seen by Taronga as a source of shame for its last years in '80s and early '90s, last standing relic of their past exhibits). I do know from an old SMH article that some school kids on an excursion were allowed to go into the abandoned enclosures one excursion day once the orangs' had moved to their new exhibit, as an educational experience of what is felt like to of been an ape resident of those cages.

edit

...
It was my assumption the cage block was demolished at that point, being so outdated and far from the image of a modern zoo; but I could be mistaken.

You are the complete opposite of mistaken man, very much how everyone at the zoo (to my understanding) felt about the orangs' still being in those cages at the time, and the Sydney press were very damning towards the zoo too about the orangutans still being in those cages.

Apparently one of the zoo's directors in very early '80s wanted to build a similar exhibit like the chimpanzees had, nearby for the orangutans..but I imagine (perhaps) funding at the time was what stopped it from happening for another 10+ years.

 

[steveroberts]

That's entirely possible - it was just my assumption from looking at a map from 1990, although based on the article Zoofan referenced above it appears these must've been a different species of gibbons (not Mary) as she was on her island at the time.

I don't believe there was another island in that area; but I'd love to be proven wrong! The Free Flight Show is on the location of the former Great ape cages. The area appeared to have been redeveloped following the Orangutans moving across to their new home in 1994.

Yeah I think the zoo had lar gibbons/white-handed gibbons for a time still too and that might be (but the map I believe is misleading - its a (much nicer for inhabitants) exhibit next to the great ape cages).

 

[Zoofan15]

Yeah that was my understanding too man.

Yeah it was demolished as quickly as could be (albeit do remember walking past it as a barren relic c.1994 or 1995), as soon as funds were available - bam - demolished - Free Flight Bird Show amphitheatre construction began c.1995 or 1996 (I believe was seen by Taronga as a source of shame for its last years in '80s and early '90s, last standing relic of their past exhibits). I do know from an old SMH article that some school kids on an excursion were allowed to go into the abandoned enclosures one excursion day once the orangs' had moved to their new exhibit, as an educational experience of what is felt like to of been an ape resident of those cages.

That would have been such a cool experience to enter those old exhibits and get a feel for what life inside them was like. They were described as dank and depressing, especially for the chimpanzees; but the opportunities for brachiation were ironically well suited to the orangutans.

The mortality rate of chimpanzee infants dropped dramatically following the move to the Chimpanzee Park. 20 year old Spitter was the first to give birth in the new exhibit. None of her previous offspring survived in the cages (one was even killed during a scuffle between the males); but her three subsequent offspring all survived to adulthood in the open air exhibit.

Darill Clements mentioned in Postcards from the Zoo of how a reporter spent a week living inside the old gorilla cage after Buluman and Betsy transferred to Melbourne Zoo in 1980. Visitors were allowed to interact with him and ask him questions; and he remained in there 24/7 during that period.

 

[Pertinax]

It was my assumption the cage block was demolished at that point, being so outdated and far from the image of a modern zoo; but I could be mistaken.

I saw Orangutans living in this 'block' on my first visit to Taronga. I was horrified to see it, quite the worst enclosures I'd ever seen and so surprising in a large zoo like Taronga. Would the very early gorillas also have been housed there perhaps?

 

[Zoofan15]

I saw Orangutans living in this 'block' on my first visit to Taronga. I was horrified to see it, quite the worst enclosures I'd ever seen and so surprising in a large zoo like Taronga. Would the very early gorillas also have been housed there perhaps?

I don’t believe the gorillas were ever housed there as by the time they arrived (six gorillas imported between 1959-1961), breeding in the chimpanzee community was in full swing; as was the orangutan colony (first infant born 1957), so they needed all the room they could get - especially with the chimpanzee community separated into multiple groups; and orangutans requiring separation of males.

The gorillas were always housed by the Komodo dragon, reptiles etc to my knowledge .

 

[steveroberts]

I don’t believe the gorillas were ever housed there as by the time they arrived (six gorillas imported between 1959-1961), breeding in the chimpanzee community was in full swing; as was the orangutan colony (first infant born 1957), so they needed all the room they could get - especially with the chimpanzee community separated into multiple groups; and orangutans requiring separation of males.

The gorillas were always housed by the Komodo dragon, reptiles etc to my knowledge .

Yeah the gorillas never were always in exhibits (well cages quite honestly) at the top area of the zoo (old footage shows some of the juvenile/baby - I think handraised - orangutans were also housed in an exhibit(s) next to gorillas - or close by - up there too from time to time (dont think for very long though, fleetingly). Hallstrom's reptile house's herptile inhabitants, and the Komodo dragons (Keith & shortlived 0.1?) were the gorillas closest neighbours proximity wise. Great ape complex row of cages was always chimps' & orangs' (then mid 1980 - very early 1994 just orangs').

 

[steveroberts]

Darill Clements mentioned in Postcards from the Zoo of how a reporter spent a week living inside the old gorilla cage after Buluman and Betsy transferred to Melbourne Zoo in 1980. Visitors were allowed to interact with him and ask him questions; and he remained in there 24/7 during that period.

Thats so cool what a creative idea (I have a limited memory of Darill's book, I read it at Hurstville library (sth Sydney) over a few days in 2008 - need to reread it badly).

edit: @Zoofan15 gosh 24/7 but, could eat & drink water being given by zoo staff, but...toilet business...showers/baths etc, what a 'trooper' hey.

 

[steveroberts]

All thanks once again to a very nice helpful person from Taronga.

Larry 1.0 (also known as Lorenzo) the Brazilian tapir was born at Melbourne Zoo in 1983. He was sent to Dubbo (WPZ) in 1984, and then arrived at Taronga on 29 October 1988 with Toby. He died at Taronga in 1989. Both his dam and sire were at Melbourne (the pair who ended up at Mogo am assuming?).

 

[Zoofan15]

All thanks once again to a very nice helpful person from Taronga.

Larry 1.0 (also known as Lorenzo) the Brazilian tapir was born at Melbourne Zoo in 1983. He was sent to Dubbo (WPZ) 1984 and then arrived at Taronga on 29 October 1988 with Toby. He died at Taronga in 1989. Both his dam and sire were at Melbourne (the pair who ended up at Mogo am assuming?).

That’s really interesting. In that case, Larry may have been a relative of the female Brazilian tapir that was sent to Adelaide Zoo in 1977 (who gave birth to Toby in 1978).

It’d be good to know more about Melbourne’s history with this species as it’s clear they were breeding earlier than we all assumed (potentially as early as 1977) and most of our information now links to Melbourne in some way.

 

[Jambo]

All thanks once again to a very nice helpful person from Taronga.

Larry 1.0 (also known as Lorenzo) the Brazilian tapir was born at Melbourne Zoo in 1983. He was sent to Dubbo (WPZ) in 1984, and then arrived at Taronga on 29 October 1988 with Toby. He died at Taronga in 1989. Both his dam and sire were at Melbourne (the pair who ended up at Mogo am assuming?).

Really big thanks for this Steve!

Certainly very helpful to putting this all together - it's possible Melbourne's original breeding pair was the ones who ended up at Mogo. However considering we know Toby's dam was born at Melbourne and born as early as 1976 that would mean Melbourne's pair would have had to have been born in the very early 70's if she was their first offspring.

If they were indeed the pair later that was retired to Mogo, that would've placed them in their late 30's (a very impressive age), come their deaths.

 

[Zoofan15]

Really big thanks for this Steve!

Certainly very helpful to putting this all together - it's possible Melbourne's original breeding pair was the ones who ended up at Mogo. However considering we know Toby's dam was born at Melbourne and born as early as 1976 that would mean Melbourne's pair would have had to have been born in the very early 70's if she was their first offspring.

If they were indeed the pair later that was retired to Mogo, that would've placed them in their late 30's (a very impressive age), come their deaths.

Just to be clear, we know Toby’s dam came from Melbourne Zoo; but it remains unknown whether she was bred there or whether she was an imported animal that later transferred out.

Sexual maturity in female Brazilian tapir is attained at 24-36 months, so factoring in a 13 month gestation, the latest Toby’s dam would have been born is 1975 (potentially earlier).

 

[Abbey]

All thanks once again to a very nice helpful person from Taronga.

Larry 1.0 (also known as Lorenzo) the Brazilian tapir was born at Melbourne Zoo in 1983. He was sent to Dubbo (WPZ) in 1984, and then arrived at Taronga on 29 October 1988 with Toby. He died at Taronga in 1989. Both his dam and sire were at Melbourne (the pair who ended up at Mogo am assuming?).

Thank you Steve for tracking down this information. I have a little bit more information about Mogo's tapirs, although the details are still somewhat patchy:

Their last tapir was a male named Mendeze who died aged 24 in 2016, having lived at Mogo since 2001.

Another tapir lived at Mogo and died in early 2015. She was a female named Para and she was a year older than Mendeze (born approximately 1990/1991). On social media, Para was named as Mendeze's companion - it's possible they were related (and almost certainly were in some respect) but possibly not closely, ie not mother and son, full siblings, etc.

It has been reported that Mogo last pair were mother and son; however, this is not the case as they were only one year apart in age.

Another tapir at Mogo was named Sanfran. A female tapir (almost certainly Mendeze's mother) died at Mogo in 2008/09 aged 23 (I have read a research paper about her death; however, it's not publicly available so I don't know how to share it - nothing shady just investigating whether diet improvements could be made to support the health of elderly animals).

I think it's most likely that Sanfran is the female who died in 2008/09, and she would have been born in about 1985/1986. It's possible she could have been imported from San Francisco Zoo (hence her name), although that is just my speculation. We know Melbourne had tapirs in 1989, and it's possible Sanfran (who ended up at Mogo) was one of them.

 

[Jambo]

Thank you Steve for tracking down this information. I have a little bit more information about Mogo's tapirs, although the details are still somewhat patchy:

Their last tapir was a male named Mendeze who died aged 24 in 2016, having lived at Mogo since 2001.

Another tapir lived at Mogo and died in early 2015. She was a female named Para and she was a year older than Mendeze (born approximately 1990/1991). On social media, Para was named as Mendeze's companion - it's possible they were related (and almost certainly were in some respect) but possibly not closely, ie not mother and son, full siblings, etc.

It has been reported that Mogo last pair were mother and son; however, this is not the case as they were only one year apart in age.

Another tapir at Mogo was named Sanfran. A female tapir (almost certainly Mendeze's mother) died at Mogo in 2008/09 aged 23 (I have read a research paper about her death; however, it's not publicly available so I don't know how to share it - nothing shady just investigating whether diet improvements could be made to support the health of elderly animals).

I think it's most likely that Sanfran is the female who died in 2008/09, and she would have been born in about 1985/1986. It's possible she could have been imported from San Francisco Zoo (hence her name), although that is just my speculation. We know Melbourne had tapirs in 1989, and it's possible Sanfran (who ended up at Mogo) was one of them.

Thanks for that information @Abbey!

All of it is very very helpful as I only previously knew about Mendeze who was born 1992 at Melbourne.

It was voiced by some previous members on here that Mogo's group was made up of a pair, their offspring (who I presumed to be Mendeze). But it seems this was not the case.

I think you might be spot on in Sanfran being Mendeze's mother, it's possible former members just got confused between her and Para. Discussion from late 2009 mentions Mogo only ever had three tapir - which would be the three individuals you listed.

It was also mentioned that all of the regions Brazilian Tapir were already inbred, which would explain the halt in breeding. I'm consequently wondering whether the region's Brazilian Tapir all descended from a single pair at Melbourne, and potentially another few imports at Adelaide.

As of 1989, Melbourne only held a single pair - which may have been Sanfran and her mate. It's interesting as Adelaide acquired a female from Melbourne in 1977. Maybe Sanfran was paired up with an older male (potential father of the Adelaide female?), following the death of another previous mate. It appears Melbourne's breeding male was never sent across to Mogo as we initially thought, so it would make sense if he passed in the mid to late 90's due to old age.

On Para, if she wasn't a sibling of Mendeze she must have been born elsewhere. Adelaide had two offspring both born in 1991 so we can potentially rule them out unless they had three breeding females. Another possibility is she was born at Dubbo, who too may have had two breeding females. If Dubbo's individuals were descended from Melbourne stock it would have made the pair closely related.

 

[Zoofan15]

Thank you Steve for tracking down this information. I have a little bit more information about Mogo's tapirs, although the details are still somewhat patchy:

Their last tapir was a male named Mendeze who died aged 24 in 2016, having lived at Mogo since 2001.

Another tapir lived at Mogo and died in early 2015. She was a female named Para and she was a year older than Mendeze (born approximately 1990/1991). On social media, Para was named as Mendeze's companion - it's possible they were related (and almost certainly were in some respect) but possibly not closely, ie not mother and son, full siblings, etc.

It has been reported that Mogo last pair were mother and son; however, this is not the case as they were only one year apart in age.

Another tapir at Mogo was named Sanfran. A female tapir (almost certainly Mendeze's mother) died at Mogo in 2008/09 aged 23 (I have read a research paper about her death; however, it's not publicly available so I don't know how to share it - nothing shady just investigating whether diet improvements could be made to support the health of elderly animals).

I think it's most likely that Sanfran is the female who died in 2008/09, and she would have been born in about 1985/1986. It's possible she could have been imported from San Francisco Zoo (hence her name), although that is just my speculation. We know Melbourne had tapirs in 1989, and it's possible Sanfran (who ended up at Mogo) was one of them.

Thanks for that information @Abbey!

All of it is very very helpful as I only previously knew about Mendeze who was born 1992 at Melbourne.

It was voiced by some previous members on here that Mogo's group was made up of a pair, their offspring (who I presumed to be Mendeze). But it seems this was not the case.

I think you might be spot on in Sanfran being Mendeze's mother, it's possible former members just got confused between her and Para. Discussion from late 2009 mentions Mogo only ever had three tapir - which would be the three individuals you listed.

It was also mentioned that all of the regions Brazilian Tapir were already inbred, which would explain the halt in breeding. I'm consequently wondering whether the region's Brazilian Tapir all descended from a single pair at Melbourne, and potentially another few imports at Adelaide.

As of 1989, Melbourne only held a single pair - which may have been Sanfran and her mate. It's interesting as Adelaide acquired a female from Melbourne in 1977. Maybe Sanfran was paired up with an older male (potential father of the Adelaide female?), following the death of another previous mate. It appears Melbourne's breeding male was never sent across to Mogo as we initially thought, so it would make sense if he passed in the mid to late 90's due to old age.

On Para, if she wasn't a sibling of Mendeze she must have been born elsewhere. Adelaide had two offspring both born in 1991 so we can potentially rule them out unless they had three breeding females. Another possibility is she was born at Dubbo, who too may have had two breeding females. If Dubbo's individuals were descended from Melbourne stock it would have made the pair closely related.

Para is interesting as her birth in 1990/1991 coincides with a number of births in the region:

1.0 Branco - born 1990 at Dubbo
0.1 Mrs Branco - born 1991 at Adelaide
1.0 Alf - born 1991 at Adelaide Zoo

Even knowing whether she was born 1990 or 1991 would narrow down possibilities as the 13 month gestation precludes a female calving twice in one year.

One of many possibilities is that she was born 1990 to Adelaide’s not Talara female, who then gave birth 1991 to another calf.

Talara was imported in 1990 and gave birth in 1991. We’ve to date assumed that she conceived shortly after her arrival at Adelaide; but a lesser possibility is that she arrived pregnant.

Regarding founders, we know that in addition to what we believed were an imported pair at Melbourne, there was Toby’s sire at Adelaide. He was imported from San Diego Zoo in 1969. Toby may have been his only offspring as Adelaide had a breeding male in place through to 2002 which realistically couldn’t have been Toby’s sire.

@Abbey I would assume San Fran was imported (from San Fransisco). Mrs Branco alone is proof very little (if any) thought was given to naming these animals and even high profile animals of that era were often named after their zoo of origin. Frank the Sumatran tiger came from Frankfurt etc.