BioParque do Rio RioZoo news

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

There is nothing wrong in well thought out displays and exhibits for African or Asian tropical species in Brasilian and South American zoos for that matter, it needs to be informed choice and better improved exhibits and eco displays! This, to give the general public also a perspective beyond its own borders and with a good selection of local and South American species of conservation concern or educational value zoos in Brasil (and ALPZA region for South America) would be doing a great job for ex situ conservation and with strong linkages to in situ with support and active participation in local recovery and species restoration programs ... the country would be well on its way to fundamentally change the narrative on zoos in general and why and how important they are for in situ conservation (which is true of any other Continent and zoogeographical region with a zoo association national or transnational).

I beg to disagree in terms of Asian and African tropical species in Brazilian and South American zoos. The problem Kifaru is the sad reality that the general public here in Brazil barely have a conception or appreciation of the biodiversity within the borders of their own state let alone their own country and even less of one for wider Latin America.

How can you expect them to love, care or act to save something that they do not know ?

How can they know something that is put into the shadows or diluted / a sideshow in zoos to the "main attraction" and to the animal "celebrities" (the African and Asian megafauna species) ?

Let me give you a classic example of this that really highlights this phenomenon. Last year during the fires in Amazonia there were a lot of social media viral videos and images posted by the general public. One of the "outraged" was a well intentioned but uninformed young lady (I'm trying to put it charitably) who decided to paint her body with the images of Amazonia on fire and its wildlife perishing in the flames.

What "Amazonian animals" did this passionate and environmentally minded Lady Godiva of the digital age paint burning to death then ?

Well... She painted elephants, giraffe, rhino and lions of course, because that was what she thought the biodiversity of Amazonia consisted of. This wasn't just an isolated case of ignorance either and is symptomatic of a wider societal ignorance of the biodiversity of the region and this has to be corrected.

Zoos absolutely must be in the trenches when it comes to fighting this battle and engaging with and educating the population about biodiversity and what stands to be lost. You cannot fight that important educational battle the way things are currently done and with an emphasis on Asiatic and African megafauna in zoos, it just wont do.

Influencer pinta o corpo em prol da Amazônia é criticada e rebate

 

[David Matos Mendes]

I agree that this is particularly true for zoos in Latino nations. The same phenomenon is rife in countries like Espagna and Italia. However, it is in my view the failure by the general public and some of the zoos to evolve their rationale // their design. In reality, this very anti sentiment is actually more like assisted prevention of major upgrades, renovations and rebuilding of zoos to take place / go forward.

On the part of the SZB zoos, what is required is to raise the bars of maintaining wild animals in zoos in Brasil and create an environment through workshops and capacity building to improve zoo designs in general (from "cage/chain link" to natural nature replicating habitats). RioZoo underlines that this can be done re-using (cradle to cradle) of old structures into new modern, appealing and attractive zoo exhibits and public areas.


Second subject matter: Where you observed the problematic keeping of orang utan, tiger, elephant and great ape, it has as much to do with low numbers, the sometimes hybrid origin of some individuals (am I right in saying that the phenomenon of white lions and white tigers or hybrid Bengal is still rife) or that their exhibits are antiquated (beyond relief).

I might agree on most, ... however in the case of great apes, it requires a determination on behalf of SZB to set up country-wide collection planning where zoos are directed to have ex situ conservation breeding programs for designated exotic species (and not at random or short supply / difficult to obtain exotic species) as well as native or South American species in need of captive programs.

Looking at the 2015 animal collection there are many local native species on the list that are in non-breeding groups or haphazard singletons or many species without any idea what they are supposed to bring over to the general public or their rationale for being kept in inadequate numbers. In particular, this is true for the primates of Brasil where many species require captive programs and are in dire straits: a variety of tamarins, marmosets, spider and howler and capuchin monkeys ... to name but a few. The new look RioZoo Bioparco as well as a good number of the major and smaller zoos in Brasil need to replicate this first and foremost, right?

Well, of course many zoos around L. america are in a more delicated situation than most of the major european/north american zoos when talking about beauty/naturalism of the structures; but untill where I know, the anti zoo feeling is spread all around the world, (of course it can be diminished if you provide the animals more immersive enclosures, etc; but I just wanna highlight that this kind of activism/petitions are not an exclusivity from any place, but worldwide spread). In this post of mine that you answered, I was actually commenting with Enzo about a guy (who's not from the zoo's staff) that dedicates himself to publish frequent news about Rio zoo, and how this kind of action could maybe spread something slightly wrong, (for not being from the zoo's official propaganda crew) and generate bad repercussion between the activists. However, in this case we are considering that he knows enough about the institution and trusting and hoping that he won't be publish wrong/possibly missinterpreted informations...

About the dificulties in keeping and breeding great apes, tigers, elephants, etc; you're right about the problems that make their conservation/ breeding difficult. I think it's worth to try to solve the breeding issues of some of the situations involving these individuals, but not all of them, and not letting it take the focus from the native species. Some should be phased out, in my opinion. AZAB (SZB no longer exists) doesn't even allow the reproduction of many of these species.

I hope the BioParque do Rio achieves good concepts with their new population plan. I think most of these issues you mentioned will be solved with a good plan of this kind.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Well, of course many zoos around L. america are in a more delicated situation than most of the major european/north american zoos when talking about beauty/naturalism of the structures; but untill where I know, the anti zoo feeling is spread all around the world, (of course it can be diminished if you provide the animals more immersive enclosures, etc; but I just wanna highlight that this kind of activism/petitions are not an exclusivity from any place, but worldwide spread). In this post of mine that you answered, I was actually commenting with Enzo about a guy (who's not from the zoo's staff) that dedicates himself to publish frequent news about Rio zoo, and how this kind of action could maybe spread something slightly wrong, (for not being from the zoo's official propaganda crew) and generate bad repercussion between the activists. However, in this case we are considering that he knows enough about the institution and trusting and hoping that he won't be publish wrong/possibly missinterpreted informations...

I know of two volunteer programes that were once incredible opportunities for students and people wishing to gain experience working with the ex-situ conservation of endangered species that have had to close down and no longer accept volunteers: Chapultepec zoo in Mexico (same with Los Coyotes and San Juan de Aragon I imagine) and Sorocaba zoo in Brazil.

These had to stop accepting volunteers because there were "animal rights activists" who pretended to be students or people interested in order to "infiltrate" (actually they were just accepted in because zoos aren't the big bad shadowy organizations) and took photos out of context so that they could spin this as "animal abuse" or just generally spread misinformation about them that served the anti-zoo narrative etc.

In both cases this is the end of programs which truly benefited generations of professionals and people who would have one day gone on to be brilliant conservationists whether in the ex-situ or in-situ sense. If you ask most conservationists working in-situ what their first experience working with wildlife was 9 times out of 10 they will tell you that it was ex-situ at a zoo as a volunteer.

A whole new generation have been denied that formative opportunity thanks to "Animal rights activists" (and how on earth does denying a new generation of people who will go out there to champion and fight for species and biodiversity as a whole benefit animals or rights ?). I feel very sorry for those up and coming students who will not be able to experience what I did.

I'm not suprised that the guy you mentioned has to be careful what he posts about Rio Zoo because the truth is there are people out there who believe it is their divine mission to close zoos down almost in a pathological messianic religious tone. Like most religious zealots they will stop at nothing and stoop to incredibly low levels to try to achieve such aims.

 

[David Matos Mendes]

I know of two volunteer programes that were once incredible opportunities for students and people wishing to gain experience working with the ex-situ conservation of endangered species that have had to close down and no longer accept volunteers: Chapultepec zoo in Mexico (same with Los Coyotes and San Juan de Aragon I imagine) and Sorocaba zoo in Brazil.

These had to stop accepting volunteers because there were animal rights activists who pretended to be students or people interested in order to "infiltrate" (actually they were just accepted in because zoos aren't the big bad shadowy organizations) and take photos out of context so that they could spin this as "animal abuse" or just generally spread misinformation about them etc.

Wow, this is really sad to hear... It's even more sad that the people who did this were so narrowminded that they worked at the zoo, had the opportunity to learn, and anyway, they follow their selfish purpose in a blind way... That's crazy.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Ultimately this is another reason why I would much rather not see African and Asian megafauna kept in zoos or kept far less frequently in this region of the world.

Apart from the reasons I've already listed in other comments animals like elephants, big cats and great apes almost always become the target and focus of "animal rights" propaganda, misinformation and campaigns. These species therefore attract this negative attention which ends up disrupting the functioning of zoos and also impacting badly on native species kept ex-situ.

Personally If I was in the shoes of a zoo director in Latin America (I never will be but I'm just going with this thought experiment right now) and during these challenging times I would much rather be tactical and strategic about this issue and not give animals rights activists even an inch of ground in that regard to stand on.

Because if you give these kind of groups an inch they will take 100 miles and this is something that can be seen over and over again happening. You improve your defence to counter an offensive and you keep your guard up in this sense and you do not drop it or get lax / lazy or arrogant or feel invulnerable as an institution or you will have to deal with all of the unpleasant consequences that invariably come from this.

Zoos in Latin America do not occupy the same priviledged position as North American or European zoos from which they can afford to take such threats lightly and laugh them off. General infastructure and wildly oscillating socio-economic and political conditions mean that zoos here must be on their toes always if they want to survive. It isn't that an "animal rights" campaign of hate is the coup de grâce for a zoo but rather that this along with other compounding factors can be a death of a thousand cuts.

I would be pre-emptive in denying them the opportunity for their grievances and propaganda to appear legitimate to the masses. I would do this through moving as far away from the old ABC species zoo paradigm as possible and feasible and turn zoos into true centres of conservation of native species and education of native biodiversity.

 

[Enzo]

Regarding Asiatic (and African) elephants, yes, these are all elderly animals. As with the death of Raisa recently at the Sorocaba zoo these animals will all eventually pass away and when this happens space and resources may be freed up.

In regards to tigers, the only subspecies that I know that are definitely purebred was the old Sumatran tiger at Chapultepec zoo in Mexico who has now passed away if I'm not mistaken and Siberian tigers held by a few other Mexican collections (El Nido for example). There are apparently Siberian tigers also in Brazilian zoos but I am a little cynical as to whether these are purebred individuals.

The rest held by zoos are supposedly "tigres de Bengala" but I am sure that these are invariably all "zoomix" tigers and therefore absolutely useless for conservation purposes so I don't know why they are even being bred or kept for that matter.



In terms of chimpanzees, yes, I believe they must be phased out too as they are not useful for any kind of ex-situ conservation and as I've said before they are more trouble than they are worth. However, there are unfortunately zoos that are still breeding them in this area of the world.

Similarly with orangutangs, many of these are hybrids anyway, there are apparently Bornean orangutangs out there held by zoos but a good number of these are ageing individuals which like the elephants will eventually pass away and free up much needed space and resources.

The gorillas are a bit of a special case, as the population in Mexico (unless something is done) will eventually die out naturally anyway without breeding. The only others are at Belo Horizonte zoo and seeing as they have in recent years bred them and have succeeded in forming a breeding group I suppose it could be argued that this should continue (though never at the expense of native primate species).

The Siberian tigers held at the Zooparque Itatiba are most likely purebred. And with a new wave of big cats coming from zoos outside Brazil (e.g.: the lion(s) from Dusseldorf living in BH), it is likely that they will be bred correctly, since the zoos' staff know now that hybridizing may not be the best option to breed those.

 

[Enzo]

I know of two volunteer programes that were once incredible opportunities for students and people wishing to gain experience working with the ex-situ conservation of endangered species that have had to close down and no longer accept volunteers: Chapultepec zoo in Mexico (same with Los Coyotes and San Juan de Aragon I imagine) and Sorocaba zoo in Brazil.

These had to stop accepting volunteers because there were "animal rights activists" who pretended to be students or people interested in order to "infiltrate" (actually they were just accepted in because zoos aren't the big bad shadowy organizations) and took photos out of context so that they could spin this as "animal abuse" or just generally spread misinformation about them that served the anti-zoo narrative etc.

In both cases this is the end of programs which truly benefited generations of professionals and people who would have one day gone on to be brilliant conservationists whether in the ex-situ or in-situ sense. If you ask most conservationists working in-situ what their first experience working with wildlife was 9 times out of 10 they will tell you that it was ex-situ at a zoo as a volunteer.

A whole new generation have been denied that formative opportunity thanks to "Animal rights activists" (and how on earth does denying a new generation of people who will go out there to champion and fight for species and biodiversity as a whole benefit animals or rights ?). I feel very sorry for those up and coming students who will not be able to experience what I did.

I'm not suprised that the guy you mentioned has to be careful what he posts about Rio Zoo because the truth is there are people out there who believe it is their divine mission to close zoos down almost in a pathological messianic religious tone. Like most religious zealots they will stop at nothing and stoop to incredibly low levels to try to achieve such aims.

Man, that sucks. I feel there is a higher anti-zoo feeling in Latin America (the highest being in Brazil) than in other places in the world.

 

[Enzo]

I believe that while Tanga and Else (the Sumatran orangutans from Rio) are most likely hybridized, Sansão (the Bornean orangutan from São Paulo) is purebred. Why? Because I have watched a video from the 1950's, which showed a pair of orangutans living at the Rio de Janeiro zoo. The narrator says one is from Sumatra and the other is from Borneo.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Man, that sucks. I feel there is a higher anti-zoo feeling in Latin America (the highest being in Brazil) than in other places in the world.

It does suck indeed I agree.

But I think it is also strong in Mexico, Argentina, Colombia and Uruguay too and it is growing across the rest of Latin America too.

The problem is that now we are living in the digital and social media age and these kind of movements can gain traction and popular support through deep fakes and manufactured narratives that pull on heartstrings and engage on an emotional level.

How do you defeat a pervasive narrative ?

Well, you create a stronger and more engaging narrative and you embody it fully through actions that are congruent with the narrative. If that narrative is what has widely been agreed upon on a global level to be education and conservation then these must be the areas that are reinforced and strengthened.

I predict that the more traditional zoo types will eventually lose this battle for hearts and minds and in fact some already have such as those in Uruguay, Costa Rica and Argentina.

I think the example of the model that needs to be applied here to win hearts and minds and evolve and survive with the times would be Zoomat in Mexico, Bioparque M' Bopicua in Uruguay and Zoo Gramado here in Brazil.

 

[David Matos Mendes]

The Siberian tigers held at the Zooparque Itatiba are most likely purebred. And with a new wave of big cats coming from zoos outside Brazil (eg: the lion(s) from Dusseldorf living in BH), it is likely that they will be bred correctly, since the zoos' staff know now that hybridizing may not be the best option to breed those.

Great point, Enzo. São Paulo with the lions from Gaia, BH with the lions (little correction: from Dortmund, not Dusseldorf), the tigers at Itatiba, indeed; all these are actually examples of a future for exotic big cats breeding in Brazil.

I believe that while Tanga and Else (the Sumatran orangutans from Rio) are most likely hybridized, Sansão (the Bornean orangutan from São Paulo) is purebred. Why? Because I have watched a video from the 1950's, which showed a pair of orangutans living at the Rio de Janeiro zoo. The narrator says one is from Sumatra and the other is from Borneo.

I think it's exactly the opposite. I saw an overview on Instagram these days that talked about the situation of great apes in Brazil, and it was mentioned that there are two female pure orangutans in the country, and one hybrid male. I also thought Sansão was a pure blood, but it looks like it's not the case.

 

[Enzo]

Great point, Enzo. São Paulo with the lions from Gaia, BH with the lions (little correction: from Dortmund, not Dusseldorf), the tigers at Itatiba, indeed; all these are actually examples of a future for exotic big cats breeding in Brazil.


I think it's exactly the opposite. I saw an overview on Instagram these days that talked about the situation of great apes in Brazil, and it was mentioned that there are two female pure orangutans in the country, and one hybrid male. I also thought Sansão was a pure blood, but it looks like it's not the case.

Yes, I'm sorry, they're from Dortmund, my mistake. If that's the case for the orangutans, then the Rio de Janeiro zoo might have traded with another institution and replaced their Bornean specimen with another Sumatran one.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

It does suck indeed I agree.

But I think it is also strong in Mexico, Argentina, Colombia and Uruguay too and it is growing across the rest of Latin America too.

The problem is that now we are living in the digital and social media age and these kind of movements can gain traction and popular support through deep fakes and manufactured narratives that pull on heartstrings and engage on an emotional level.

How do you defeat a pervasive narrative ?

Well, you create a stronger and more engaging narrative and you embody it fully through actions that are congruent with the narrative. If that narrative is what has widely been agreed upon on a global level to be education and conservation then these must be the areas that are reinforced and strengthened.

I predict that the more traditional zoo types will eventually lose this battle for hearts and minds and in fact some already have such as those in Uruguay, Costa Rica and Argentina.

I think the example of the model that needs to be applied here to win hearts and minds and evolve and survive with the times would be Zoomat in Mexico, Bioparque M' Bopicua in Uruguay and Zoo Gramado here in Brazil.

Like you said zoos are the conduit or first place of contact for the wider populace to experience nature and enjoy wild animals. The whole set up in zoo design and experience in Latino zoos needs to change. We actually need more good zoos as opposed to zoos closing down in the region!

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Like you said zoos are the conduit or first place of contact for the wider populace to experience nature and enjoy wild animals. The whole set up in zoo design and experience in Latino zoos needs to change. We actually need more good zoos as opposed to zoos closing down in the region!

Yes and that I do agree with you on this point.

However, as I said the better model for a zoo to pursue in my opinion and because of the reasons I highlighted would be those three examples in my comment from Mexico, Uruguay and Brazil.

 

[David Matos Mendes]

It does suck indeed I agree.

But I think it is also strong in Mexico, Argentina, Colombia and Uruguay too and it is growing across the rest of Latin America too.

The problem is that now we are living in the digital and social media age and these kind of movements can gain traction and popular support through deep fakes and manufactured narratives that pull on heartstrings and engage on an emotional level.

I predict that the more traditional zoo types will eventually lose this battle for hearts and minds and in fact some already have such as those in Uruguay, Costa Rica and Argentina.

I think the example of the model that needs to be applied here to win hearts and minds and evolve and survive with the times would be Zoomat in Mexico, Bioparque M' Bopicua in Uruguay and Zoo Gramado here in Brazil.

Agree with you here. These countries also have strong antizoo movements for what I know... Although our country is in m opinion between the nations with the largest problem of the kind...

Like you said zoos are the conduit or first place of contact for the wider populace to experience nature and enjoy wild animals. The whole set up in zoo design and experience in Latino zoos needs to change. We actually need more good zoos as opposed to zoos closing down in the region!

I agree with you, but I wouldn't consider that ever latino zoo needs to totally change their entire structure to be acceptable. We've got many substandard zoos indeed, but not all of them are like this. It's always good to remember this kind of revitalization work is already happening here, and there are many nice exhibit areas in our institutions. We jus cannot do these works as fast as we'd like to. Not enough resources available for it.
(I'm not saying all the zoos here are dedicated enough to do the necessary changes. If it's already difficult to do it when you have the dedication for it, but have limited resources, imagine when you have none of these...)

 

[David Matos Mendes]

Yes, I'm sorry, they're from Dortmund, my mistake. If that's the case for the orangutans, then the Rio de Janeiro zoo might have traded with another institution and replaced their Bornean specimen with another Sumatran one.

Yes, many things might have happened in this large period. If I'm not wrong, I've heard more than one time about "Tanga" and "Else" having pure blood.

 

[Enzo]

I hope the zoo'll soon get a new male Sumatran orangutan so they can reproduce the species. According to Wikipedia and the website Animal Diversity, females seem to be capable of giving birth up to 51 or 53 years old. The second website also points out that there have been no reports documenting the onset of menopause. Since Tanga is only 40 years old and Else is only 32, they might still be able to give birth.

 

[Enzo]

Yes, many things might have happened in this large period. If I'm not wrong, I've heard more than one time about "Tanga" and "Else" having pure blood.

Where did you see that? I'd like to know.

 

[David Matos Mendes]

Where did you see that? I'd like to know.

I've seen it more recently in a Instagram profile, but it was in the stories, so it's not appearing anymore. I'll ask the administrator of the profile about this info. Anyway, here's the link of the profile:
https://www.instagram.com/zooloversbrasil/
I don't remember very well wherelse I had access to these infos, but I'm quite sure I did.

 

[David Matos Mendes]

I've seen it more recently in a Instagram profile, but it was in the stories, so it's not appearing anymore. I'll ask the administrator of the profile about this info. Anyway, here's the link of the profile:
https://www.instagram.com/zooloversbrasil/
I don't remember very well wherelse I had access to these infos, but I'm quite sure I did.

I've privately asked the administrator of the page, and he was informed that one of the orangutans from Rio has been sent to Beto Carrero.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I've privately asked the administrator of the page, and he was informed that one of the orangutans from Rio has been sent to Beto Carrero.

Do I get this: Two female (pure-bred) Sumatran orang and one gets send to another zoo?
What is the point in that?

BTW: A large part of this thread is no longer about RioZoo News! Would it not be more useful to have the discourse penned into a new thread on the general state of affairs in Brasilian zoos and let this thread first and foremost for RioZoo news?