Bronx Zoo Should the Bronx Zoo keep elephants?

The zoo could always ban the activists from coming.

Right now, the habitats are exclusive to the animals (elephants, rhinos, deer, etc). To solve the "too small" issue, the animals could be rotated through habitats for enrichment. Often times, it is not the space that is the issue, it is the enrichment to fulfill the elephants' time in that habitat. Granted, elephants need plenty of space, and if the zoo wants to redo the outdoor habitats they could make it larger and use the barn as a center of a round roulette version of habitats and rotate animals into 3 or 4 larger habitats instead of small sections.

If the monorail is expensive, get rid of it. Have a broadwalk like other posters are suggesting.

Its interesting to read different thoughts, and I appreciate it. I am one of those who feel that Bronx Zoo and NYC could benefit from having the elephants. I just do not think they could maintain a breeding herd because of the space, but they could maintain the maximum of 3 elephants and SSP needs more young bull holders. There is only one Asian bull holder in the USA, and that is in Denver.

Do not let the activists win the fight.
 
StoppableSan said:
I don't think they'd necessarily encroach on the rhino space seeing as the first meadow with the deer and blackbuck would be a much easier expansion opportunity - a modular transfer chute linking up the offshow yards as well as a modern barn big enough to house both the elephants and rhinos (precedent with shared barns with Columbus until Brian the Indian rhino was moved out and Fort Worth). Bronx wouldn't even have to sacrifice the deer to expand the elephant exhibit, if anything this could be an Asian equivalent to Giants of the Savanna.

I think weirdly the seasonality of the monorail could work in Bronx's favor from a welfare perspective, if they emphasized that the WCS is a nonprofit and also emphasizes how the elephants have the choice to go wherever they like, that's two arguments out the window. All things considered, they don't need to reinvent the wheel in terms of the transformative things they could do for elephants.
Click to expand...
San Diego Zoo in Balboa Park is one fourth (100 acres) the size of the Bronx Zoo (265 acres) yet maintains Asian elephants and a singleton , bachelor African elephant.
How is that
To do something one needs the money, the will and the direction.
What is lacking here ?
I have seen many petitions and demonstrations to remove the elephants why are there no marches and protests - particularly among the membership - for the zoo to MAINTAIN the tradition exhibiting elephants?
They should march - checkbooks in hand - to build a permanent facility for elephants in perpetuity at the Bronx
Whege affective local residents when it comes to this?
ZCChip said:
The zoo could always ban the activists from coming.

Right now, the habitats are exclusive to the animals (elephants, rhinos, deer, etc). To solve the "too small" issue, the animals could be rotated through habitats for enrichment. Often times, it is not the space that is the issue, it is the enrichment to fulfill the elephants' time in that habitat. Granted, elephants need plenty of space, and if the zoo wants to redo the outdoor habitats they could make it larger and use the barn as a center of a round roulette version of habitats and rotate animals into 3 or 4 larger habitats instead of small sections.

If the monorail is expensive, get rid of it. Have a broadwalk like other posters are suggesting.

Its interesting to read different thoughts, and I appreciate it. I am one of those who feel that Bronx Zoo and NYC could benefit from having the elephants. I just do not think they could maintain a breeding herd because of the space, but they could maintain the maximum of 3 elephants and SSP needs more young bull holders. There is only one Asian bull holder in the USA, and that is in Denver.

Do not let the activists win the fight.
Click to expand...
 
Don Majeski said:
San Diego Zoo in Balboa Park is one fourth (100 acres) the size of the Bronx Zoo (265 acres) yet maintains Asian elephants and a singleton , bachelor African elephant.
How is that
To do something one needs the money, the will and the direction.
What is lacking here ?
I have seen many petitions and demonstrations to remove the elephants why are there no marches and protests - particularly among the membership - for the zoo to MAINTAIN the tradition exhibiting elephants?
They should march - checkbooks in hand - to build a permanent facility for elephants in perpetuity at the Bronx
Whege affective local residents when it comes to this?
Click to expand...
Where are the activists in favor of MAINTAINING the elephants ?
Whege is their zeal? Where is their fanaticism on this issue?
 
Don Majeski said:
San Diego Zoo in Balboa Park is one fourth (100 acres) the size of the Bronx Zoo (265 acres) yet maintains Asian elephants and a singleton , bachelor African elephant.
How is that
To do something one needs the money, the will and the direction.
What is lacking here ?
I have seen many petitions and demonstrations to remove the elephants why are there no marches and protests - particularly among the membership - for the zoo to MAINTAIN the tradition exhibiting elephants?
They should march - checkbooks in hand - to build a permanent facility for elephants in perpetuity at the Bronx
Whege affective local residents when it comes to this?
Click to expand...
The San Diego Zoo has three bachelor male and one older female African elephants, the female is slated to moved to the Safari Park later this year and only keep a bachelor herd of Africans. Their last two Asian Elephants died in 2022-2023.
 
Nile Hippo Expert said:
The San Diego Zoo has three bachelor male and one older female African elephants, the female is slated to moved to the Safari Park later this year and only keep a bachelor herd of Africans. Their last two Asian Elephants died in 2022-2023.
Click to expand...
Thank You for the update .
Obviously, it’s been a while since I visited SDZ .
Pointedly , San Diego still manages to main three specimens of the largest , most impressive land animals on earth within 100-acres with 700 or so other species
 
And where is the money for an acceptable elephant habitat coming from? It's taken Bronx more than fifteen years just to reopen World of Darkness with little change, and the thread is projecting exhibit expansion and replacing monorails. They're not Omaha or San Diego with tons of funding. It would require a lot of investment to meet the current standards, and I really don't see them being willing to make it. It would cost them a lot, requires giving up something else, and doesn't necessarily turn their PR around.
 
Great Argus said:
And where is the money for an acceptable elephant habitat coming from? It's taken Bronx more than fifteen years just to reopen World of Darkness with little change, and the thread is projecting exhibit expansion and replacing monorails. They're not Omaha or San Diego with tons of funding. It would require a lot of investment to meet the current standards, and I really don't see them being willing to make it. It would cost them a lot, requires giving up something else, and doesn't necessarily turn their PR around.
Click to expand...
Where is the funding in San Diego -albeit the crown jewel of world zoos- and Omaha - with a smaller population than Manhattan - not to mention Queens or Brooklyn- getting their’s?
The WCS membership (Us) MUST step up and contribute - if elephants are wants we really want for NYC - and 8,300,000 New Yorkers.Where are they?
I know the the budget for City of New York is only, about, $134,000,000,000 per year -slightly more than even Omaha and San Diego’s - collectively!- but they could have a bond issue.
The question is: How much do you want it?
How much are you willing to sacrifice your own money to pay for it?
As a New Yorker - who mother, grand father and great grandfather viewed elephants in New York - I would be willing to donate to the cause.
Lila Acheson Wallace, widow of the founder of Reader’s Digest, paid for World of Birds
What billionaire would make World of Elephants?
How much would each WCS member pay to have a permanent presence for elephants in NYC?
Me - as one
 
Don Majeski said:
Where is the funding in San Diego -albeit the crown jewel of world zoos- and Omaha - with a smaller population than Manhattan - not to mention Queens or Brooklyn- getting their’s?
The WCS membership (Us) MUST step up and contribute - if elephants are wants we really want for NYC - and 8,300,000 New Yorkers.Where are they?
I know the the budget for City of New York is only, about, $134,000,000,000 per year -slightly more than even Omaha and San Diego’s - collectively!- but they could have a bond issue.
The question is: How much do you want it?
How much are you willing to sacrifice your own money to pay for it?
As a New Yorker - who mother, grand father and great grandfather viewed elephants in New York - I would be willing to donate to the cause.
Lila Acheson Wallace, widow of the founder of Reader’s Digest, paid for World of Birds
What billionaire would make World of Elephants?
How much would each WCS member pay to have a permanent presence for elephants in NYC?
Me - as one
Click to expand...
Just because you’re willing to donate doesn’t mean everyone else who visits the Bronx Zoo is willing to.
 
KiwiBirb said:
Just because you’re willing to donate doesn’t mean everyone else who visits the Bronx Zoo is willing to.
Click to expand...
This is the point I am making . IF the public wants it that much they make it happen -IF they do not .It won’t.
The question is WHY don’t they ?
 
Don Majeski said:
This is the point I am making . IF the public wants it that much they make it happen -IF they do not .It won’t.
The question is WHY don’t they ?
Click to expand...
Why don’t they? There are 2 reasons
1. The vast majority of people just don’t feel as passionately. Just because you think seeing an elephant is something super special doesn’t mean millions of other people feel the same way. Even those who care about animals may have found a spark with Gorillas, Tigers, or one of the hundreds of other species found at WCS facilities, and don’t value elephants in the same way you do.
2. They just can’t afford to. Even if they feel the same way you do, you have to keep in mind we are living in an era where about half of all Americans live paycheck to paycheck (which I’m sure is higher in the city.) People have to worry about putting food on the table and paying the rent, not about keeping the elephants at the zoo.
 
KiwiBirb said:
Why don’t they? There are 2 reasons
1. The vast majority of people just don’t feel as passionately. Just because you think seeing an elephant is something super special doesn’t mean millions of other people feel the same way. Even those who care about animals may have found a spark with Gorillas, Tigers, or one of the hundreds of other species found at WCS facilities, and don’t value elephants in the same way you do.
2. They just can’t afford to. Even if they feel the same way you do, you have to keep in mind we are living in an era where about half of all Americans live paycheck to paycheck (which I’m sure is higher in the city.) People have to worry about putting food on the table and paying the rent, not about keeping the elephants at the zoo.
Click to expand...
They appear , however, to be willing to support the Yankees (3,309,838 (2024) and the Mets (2,239,501) at far greater cost .And innumerable rock concerts.
If you took total of marijuana sales in the Bronx and added it up you would those underprivileged spend far on that commodity per capita than they do on attending the Bronx Zoo
 
Don Majeski said:
They appear , however, to be willing to support the Yankees (3,309,838 (2024) and the Mets (2,239,501) at far greater cost .And innumerable rock concerts.
If you took total of marijuana sales in the Bronx and added it up you would those underprivileged spend far on that commodity per capita than they do on attending the Bronx Zoo
Click to expand...
Again, just because people support one thing doesn’t means they are going to support everything.
 
Nile Hippo Expert said:
Again, just because people support one thing doesn’t means they are going to support everything.
Click to expand...
I completely agree. It’s unfortunate that the general public is not as interested in comings and flings of their local zoos as those in this website.Which, apparently , is WHY, in fact , we HAVE this website
 
Don Majeski said:
T
I am all for in situ conservation efforts but - with over 5,000 conservation organizations worldwide - the WCS needs to spend a larger portion on their
“living institutions”
Click to expand...

I offer no strong disagreements when I bring up the WCS' most recent annual report. In 2023, they spent 44% of their budget across all five parks and another 44% for their global programs, over $170 million apiece. They indeed spent less on the parks than on conservation, but the descripency was maybe $3 million ($174m vs. $177m). Also, they spent about $17 million more than they earned that same year.

In my opinion:
Can they reinvest or otherwise continue to invest in housing elephants? Yes. If they really wanted to and tried, I believe sicnerely that space can be found and I beleive sponsors or donors could be found.
Will/would they? Not anytime soon is the most optimistic thing I can realistically say. I think they're closing the door but not locking it.
Should they? If the PR surrounding this specific zoo and its present elephants was any better, I'd be less worried. If they really do commit to not maintaining these two (or one after one dies), I'd be upset and understanding of this unique situation. I and others (on and off this site) would want them to and hope that they would, but they've said in the past that they wanted to phase them out and not house them "like this" anymore. Again, I think the door is closed but unlocked.

I agree with others who sooner call into question monorail attendance than zoo attendance. Zoo attendance might take a small hit, but they'll come out the other side just fine. The monorail, however, I believe would be more of a question mark. They could lean into rhinos and tigers, maybe the horses, and probably stay afloat (at least for a while longer given the age and maintenance of the ride). Otherwise, they'd have to capitalize on any babies born to get John Q. Public excited to see the deer and miscellaneous.
 
phraps said:
I don't mean to step on any toes here, but we're talking about the Yankees and marijuana and I wonder if this thread has run its course...
Click to expand...

Seconded. None of these suggestions can really happen while Happy and Patty remain at the zoo, and Bronx has said no more for I believe over a decade now. There's really no point keeping up this back and forth.
 
The general public gives money to the zoo by admissions.

How many corporations are in NYC? Surely one of them will gladly sponsor the project (either it may be elephant or the entire Asian complex). We see them all the time in sports, another zoos, and so on.

If you want elephants at the zoo bring ideas to the board and make it known. Even better if you are local.
 
Great Argus said:
Seconded. None of these suggestions can really happen while Happy and Patty remain at the zoo, and Bronx has said no more for I believe over a decade now. There's really no point keeping up this back and forth.
Click to expand...

unfortunately the message has been two sided. They did say no more, but then they said they will never keep elephants this way again (meaning in an unit with two or three older cows that are not related to each other).

Only time has the answer.
 
Threads like this often remind me of the old stories of children donating pocket change to see elephants or giraffes at their local zoo.

I'd like to say an independent group should, with participation from the Bronx Zoo, created a fund seeking donations explicitly for an elephant exhibit, based on set financial goal, with no other immediate purpose, as a way to see how many people are willing to donate money to see elephants at the zoo - possibly with a limited window, similar to what you see in crowdfunding, using urgency as part of the marketing - and allowing the zoo itself to focus on other projects in the meantime. Realistically though, in order to figure out a funding goal, the Bronx Zoo would still need to go through a feasibility study and design process which would still cost the zoo first, and if the money was raised, people would want the exhibit constructed immediately.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top