Of course, the whole "our panda might be pregnant, so you better come visit us now!!!!" ploy is very familiar to anyone who keeps track of Edinburgh Zoo's PR 
Smithsonian National Zoo Smithsonian National Zoo News 2020
- Thread starter Mbwamwitu
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Of course, the whole "our panda might be pregnant, so you better come visit us now!!!!" ploy is very familiar to anyone who keeps track of Edinburgh Zoo's PR
At least Smithsonian is a bit more honest about the situation and doesn't drag out the "is she? who knows!" campaign for 8 months
~Thylo
Please stop squabbling over minor issues: We all damn well know that giant panda pregnancies are a tricky issue and pseudo pregnancy is a regular biological occurrence in the species. That some zoos make a real drama out of this and others say it like it is "might be pregnant", ooh well .... I really could not care less.
If I would get worked up at every bit of "faked up" news churned out by some zoo PR and marketing department staff I would not have a life worth living left. I might take exception at their ignorance or plain changing the facts from reality, but I am sure as hell not going to take it any further.
FYI: I believe in evidence and science based research as a basis for fact-finding and new discoveries. But at the end of the day, when research papers or other scientific facts get published it is also a point of view in time (and not set in stone) until such time when new discoveries or research has corroborated the facts or set the goal posts further down the line with new insights or new research. It is the only way to go forward.
I could also go on about the peculiar irrationality of mankind and every human being behaviour-wise, but I will not do so here. An Eureka gets to be very close to the ... I, you, us are fallible.
If I would get worked up at every bit of "faked up" news churned out by some zoo PR and marketing department staff I would not have a life worth living left. I might take exception at their ignorance or plain changing the facts from reality, but I am sure as hell not going to take it any further.
FYI: I believe in evidence and science based research as a basis for fact-finding and new discoveries. But at the end of the day, when research papers or other scientific facts get published it is also a point of view in time (and not set in stone) until such time when new discoveries or research has corroborated the facts or set the goal posts further down the line with new insights or new research. It is the only way to go forward.
I could also go on about the peculiar irrationality of mankind and every human being behaviour-wise, but I will not do so here. An Eureka gets to be very close to the ... I, you, us are fallible.
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No one's squabbling over what the zoo said. The PR department has been very clear that she is not pregnant, just that they've detected fetal tissue that may turn into a pregnancy. They acknowledge this is not yet a pregnancy and that the tissue could be reabsorbed at any time. There's no PR shtick here. The issue was a certain member's insistence in comments they've since deleted that despite the above being made very clear by the zoo, this meant that their panda was 100% without a doubt definitely pregnant with absolute certainty and others were trying to kindly correct them.
~Thylo
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
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Nothing at all to do with the Smithsonian, but I just wondered how you actually do delete something?
After a very short window, I cant even correct a typo on here, let alone delete it...
Nothing at all to do with the Smithsonian, but I just wondered how you actually do delete something?
After a very short window, I cant even correct a typo on here, let alone delete it...
It has to be deleted within the same time frame of editing. The 'delete' option should be right next to the 'edit' option during this window of time.
~Thylo
On the bright side, the zoo posted this video on social media of “cub movement”!! Finger crossed she gives birth very soon to a healthy cub!!
It never ceases to amaze me how fast the embryo develops into a fetus; and then a cub in a matter of days. If only human pregnancies were as fast! Though to be fair, this development follows months of delayed implantation.
What will also be interesting to see, if this cub survives, is whether it will affect the zoo’s loan agreement - which is due to expire in 2020. Whether it will strengthen their case to extending it; or whether China will recall the parents and cub, as they are able to do.
If a cub is born and is still alive come December, their agreement will definitely be extended. It would be EXTREMELY reckless on china's part to allow a 4 month old cub to be transported given how easily we have seen things go down hill for this species. I'm honestly willing to bet that their loan has already been extended given the partnership the zoo has had with them over the years. Although I would much rather see the two we currently have be recalled and either replaced with younger pandas or preferably their exhibit renovated and turned into an exhibit for some other species.
I think you underestimate the Chinese: They do take the long view unlike some operators on the global theatre. However, if the current sway of isolationist trivia and subterfuge continues to prevail within US politics at some point these G.P. agreements with US zoos will cease and will come to an end. It is like a Catch22 sword of Damocles style harakiri and self inflicted to that.
I do hope though this will not come to pass and that common sense within the zoo community will prevail.
I completely understand your desire for a different species instead of more pandas, but what other species could really use the space well AND be popular enough with your average visitor? I think they could easily turn the space into Chinese Central Goral and Asian crane species, but I doubt people would visit the zoo to see cranes and hoofstock.
The current space would make a baller snow leopard/takin exhibit if the zoo went the astronomical route of giving up their pandas. Snow leopards being the draw and the takin being a Seussian oddity.
I mean wasn't it considered extremely reckless on China's part to make SDZ transport an extremely elderly panda back to them? I don't think the birth of a cub will change anything in regards to whether their loan as been extended and tbh I think whether or not the loan has been extended relies heavily on who wins that special chair in office come November, as is the case with SDZ waiting to get their pandas back.
~Thylo
That could work. Bactrian Camels would be another popular option, although not with Zoochatters and with no conservation value. I guess the other option though would be to renovate the area into a new tiger exhibit, and then acquire something new for the big cat exhibit, possibly jaguars. I know this might not be popular with average visitors, but the area could also make a really cool dhole exhibit. To be honest though, I'd be fine with them doing anything in that space as long as they don't take the same route as San Diego and leave it empty.
I remember back in 2012 the zoo was looking into whether it was feasible to import Bhutan Takin to display near the pandas. This has since been abandoned since Sichuan are already well-established in the US and the Smithsonian already breeds this species at the research facility, but I think Sichuan Takins are a good possibility for a replacement. Dholes, while not famous, seem to draw a big enough crowd at Bronx and that's with them hardly ever being on-exhibit
~Thylo
~Thylo
Rumor has it that SDZ sending Bai Yun back to china wasn't entirely China's decision at all. I've heard several people make the comment that it was done due to China asking for their male Gao Gao(I think his name was) back. This "upset" several people and because of it instead of renegotiating due to heightened tensions, they made the decision to send back all their pandas. If I recall correctly their breeding male was shipped back out of no where with very little press around it. So it makes sense if you think about it.
I feel any big cat would be popular with visitors. Their current exhibit setup with the three yards would be an amazing setup for some sort of big cat species especially considering the last yard before the panda house has that large portion of glass viewing. I feel with the right renovations the zoo could turn two of those yards in a space that could easily house the zoos Amur/Sumatran Tigers, and really tie the "Asia Trail" together. The last yard could then be used for some sort of hoof stock or even some sort of Eurasian cat like a Snow Leopard, Amur Leopard, or even Asiatic Lions. This would also allow them to expand their current lion pride seeing as their current cats are all either no longer of reproductive age or related to the others. They could even ship out their lions and renovate the current Lion/Tiger complex into a more modern facility. Their current outdoor facilities in my opinion are so outdated and there is all that empty hill space next to it that could potentially be turned into some sort of exhibit space.
Although not related to Bactrian camels, this made me remember that while visiting last week I noticed that the current P-Horse exhibit has so new renovations in it. It seems they might be either bringing P-Horse back to NZP or setting up for some new type of Hoof Stock.
I do believe the decision for them all to be shipped back was made with very little, if any warning. I do not believe that SDZ decided to ship out their entire panda group because they were "upset" that they were asked to return their current breeding male. It doesn't make much sense to me that SDZ, which promised before their last animals even left that pandas would return as soon as they were allowed to have them again, would decide to throw out the whole group just because they'd be temporarily left without a breeding male. It makes even less sense that they'd jeopardize the elderly male's health by shipping him out when they didn't have to. Some pandas are better than no pandas for a panda zoo and no pandas, an empty set of enclosures, and promises to bring them back somewhere between "2-6 years" from then doesn't sound like the kind of situation SDZ would choose to leave themselves with. Additionally, it's not been a year and a half since the pandas left and there was been zero movement in terms of getting bears back despite it apparently being high on SDZ's priority list, with the word being
The story circulating from the beginning was that China did not want any pandas left in the US as long as the current administration was in charge and this was the cause of SDZ's sudden and rapid loss of bears as soon as their agreement was up despite the zoo's insistence that they were committed to keeping them further. Now here we are with another zoo's loan agreement coming to a close and them being taken back by China is once again seen as a real possibility. I suppose we'll have to see how events play out, though.
~Thylo
2 to 6 years does line up with something that occurs every 4 years. 2 years if current admin is voted out, and 6 years if there is a second term. I think that has played a vital role in China's decision to recall pandas.
All very true, however around the time SDZ's pandas were leaving there was an article in the Atlanta Business Article in which Zoo Atlanta's director had said tension between the two countries have little to no effect on panda breeding loans. With the NZP pandas I know that a decision has already been made however it is up to the zoo to release this info publicly on their time. If any of you would like to know feel free to pm me.
In other news, here's a cute little update I saw on Facebook regarding the zoos 4 month Cheetah cubs located at the SCBI location in Front Royal, VA.
Cheetah Cubdate #11: Building Relationships