So much to respond to and hopefully I don't miss anyone.
First of all, kudos to @Maguari for consistently replying in a positive manner, even when you disagree with some of the things that I've said. That makes for a great forum and healthy debate is a fascination for all of us. I think that you've seen all of the big German zoos that I've been visiting, but have you visited every German zoo that I've been to so far?
@DavidBrown the Kea exhibit that goes from one aviary and under a weird boardwalk to another aviary is at De Paay Zoo in the Netherlands...probably a strong contender for one of the Top 5 all-time worst zoos I've seen in my lifetime. The stench, the peeling signs, the utter disregard for cleanliness...shocking and I'm really surprised that the place hasn't been shut down. I will have to think how harsh I want that review to go, but it was an awful zoo in so many ways even with its rarities.
@Batto , your comment about the charging for zoo maps had me chuckling out loud. The audacity indeed! On my North American trips I would always grab 5 or 6 zoo maps so that I could use one to crinkle and analyze around the zoo, another for my collection at home of almost 2,000 good-conditioned ones, and then several more to trade with folks on this forum. @Arek , @sooty mangabey and @devilfish , to name just three. Sorry folks, but I have been only buying two maps (both for myself) as I don't like the idea of buying 5 or 6 maps at each zoo when 95% of all the zoos I've ever visited have had free maps. It would be bloody expensive. At least there are some guidebooks over here in Europe and far more than the paltry few that are located in North America.
As for the Tour de France, @Arizona Docent , I would rather skip that event. I've seen enough cyclists here to last a lifetime, including some groups in the Dutch countryside with 5 guys all dressed in identical blue outfits (like speedy Smurfs) or another group had all yellow-and-black tights on as they raced down the street and I thought it was a swarm of wasps!
@TeaLovingDave Thanks for the massive list of species, with Latin names, that you posted on this thread from the Aquazoo Lobbecke Museum. That must have taken a heck of a long time to type out...but thanks anyway as I really enjoyed that place and I'm glad that it was my 100th aquarium. It was a slight upgrade on a typical Sea Life.
@Arek Please keep the intriguing historical zoo facts coming as I love reading about them. You mentioned the 'Red-tailed Moustached Monkeys' at Gelsenkirchen and how that zoo is one of only three on the continent to have them. That's a fact that I love learning about. Cheers...and I'm so glad that I spent time watching such a rare species.
@vogelcommando It was great meeting up with you and you'll appear in this thread again when I get around to typing it up. Thanks for the Corsac Fox memories!
@lintworm Thanks for your input at several junctures in this thread. I prefer the Planckendael, Gelsenkirchen and GaiaZOO type of zoos but I also like the same zoos that you prefer (Artis, Cologne, Antwerp) ...just not as much as you do.
One thing for certain, whether we all like it or not, it would seem that most zoos are not building the massive animal houses any longer and the zoos of the future are slightly more modern and naturalistic like the Planckendaels of the world. Having said that, I saw the 'Pandasia' complex at Ouwehands Zoo and that is one enormous set of structures. I didn't really like the zoo in Rhenen, but that Giant Panda building is a memorable addition to a popular zoo.
I cannot forget about @Bib Fortuna whom I've heard is an interesting guy from those that have met him via his 3 or 4 different aliases on ZooChat over the years or even at ZooHistorica each September. I think that you and I would have more in common in regards to zoos than you might initially think. I loved Frankfurt and also strongly dislike Tropic World at Brookfield Zoo, although you lumping it to together with JungleWorld in the Bronx is a bit harsh. Don't worry, I have thrown a lot of criticism at North American zoos over the years and you can always re-read old threads for the proof. Maybe it's because I'm over in Europe right now on a daily basis, but there is part of me that thinks maybe the European zoos are truly better overall. It's a tough call, and also a regional thing, as the zoos of certain unnamed nations in Europe won't register too highly while the zoos in the nations that I'm visiting are mainly impressive.
I've had a few emails and messages about the differences between Europe and America in terms of zoos (let's fact it, the U.S. dominates North America for zoos) and that's why I've been mentioning a few things here and there.
Europe 'wins' for elephant houses, giraffe houses and antelope houses because they are often large structures and the public can enter into most of them. Primate outdoor exhibits, especially the walk-through yards everywhere, is a clear bonus for European zoos. European zoos win for historic architecture, ornate design and historical value. Another win is birds of prey, plus the halting of pinioning birds in savanna enclosures. Europe might have better quality in terms of reptile terrariums, with fairly large sizes the norm. Europe wins for small animals like bats, rats and mice.
North America 'wins' in a big way for amenities. Whether it is gift shops, drinking fountains everywhere, free parking at many places, countless free zoo maps, free washrooms, etc.. Those are all extremely important aspects of a zoo visit. North America probably has far greater reptile collections in terms of quantity of species, and I'm not even talking about venomous snakes but a collection overall. Elephant exhibits are larger in the U.S., with much more space, as the zoos do tend to be larger than their Euro counterparts. The U.S. wins for pinnipeds.
It seems to me that big cats are fairly even, with the same going for bears. I think that North America might have more underwater viewing options for polar bears, grizzlies bears, tigers, penguins, etc., although that could be just anecdotal. One thing that I've noticed is that a LOT of the underwater viewing in Europe sees the water all green and it is something that then makes underwater viewing a mute point. I saw a Pygmy Hippo dive into a pool at GaiaZOO and I might as well have been looking at a wall painted green. I would say that 75% of all the underwater viewing has been very poor in Europe. In the U.S. all of the pools are crystal clear, which I wonder whether is actually better for the animals or not? My gut feeling is that the untreated, perhaps chlorine-free water in the European pools is better for the skin and eyes of the animals, with the viewing conditions in the U.S. better for visitors. I'm just guessing there...
Anyway, I could go on all day long and at the end of the day there's not much to choose between the two continents in terms of zoos. There are a lot of differences and so it's a nice contrast to see species over in Europe (like Dwarf Mongoose and Yellow Mongoose) so many times that I'm not bored of them...and yet in the U.S. it would be Bobcats and Coyotes every single day. Ha!
First of all, kudos to @Maguari for consistently replying in a positive manner, even when you disagree with some of the things that I've said. That makes for a great forum and healthy debate is a fascination for all of us. I think that you've seen all of the big German zoos that I've been visiting, but have you visited every German zoo that I've been to so far?
@DavidBrown the Kea exhibit that goes from one aviary and under a weird boardwalk to another aviary is at De Paay Zoo in the Netherlands...probably a strong contender for one of the Top 5 all-time worst zoos I've seen in my lifetime. The stench, the peeling signs, the utter disregard for cleanliness...shocking and I'm really surprised that the place hasn't been shut down. I will have to think how harsh I want that review to go, but it was an awful zoo in so many ways even with its rarities.
@Batto , your comment about the charging for zoo maps had me chuckling out loud. The audacity indeed! On my North American trips I would always grab 5 or 6 zoo maps so that I could use one to crinkle and analyze around the zoo, another for my collection at home of almost 2,000 good-conditioned ones, and then several more to trade with folks on this forum. @Arek , @sooty mangabey and @devilfish , to name just three. Sorry folks, but I have been only buying two maps (both for myself) as I don't like the idea of buying 5 or 6 maps at each zoo when 95% of all the zoos I've ever visited have had free maps. It would be bloody expensive. At least there are some guidebooks over here in Europe and far more than the paltry few that are located in North America.
As for the Tour de France, @Arizona Docent , I would rather skip that event. I've seen enough cyclists here to last a lifetime, including some groups in the Dutch countryside with 5 guys all dressed in identical blue outfits (like speedy Smurfs) or another group had all yellow-and-black tights on as they raced down the street and I thought it was a swarm of wasps!
@TeaLovingDave Thanks for the massive list of species, with Latin names, that you posted on this thread from the Aquazoo Lobbecke Museum. That must have taken a heck of a long time to type out...but thanks anyway as I really enjoyed that place and I'm glad that it was my 100th aquarium. It was a slight upgrade on a typical Sea Life.
@Arek Please keep the intriguing historical zoo facts coming as I love reading about them. You mentioned the 'Red-tailed Moustached Monkeys' at Gelsenkirchen and how that zoo is one of only three on the continent to have them. That's a fact that I love learning about. Cheers...and I'm so glad that I spent time watching such a rare species.
@vogelcommando It was great meeting up with you and you'll appear in this thread again when I get around to typing it up. Thanks for the Corsac Fox memories!
@lintworm Thanks for your input at several junctures in this thread. I prefer the Planckendael, Gelsenkirchen and GaiaZOO type of zoos but I also like the same zoos that you prefer (Artis, Cologne, Antwerp) ...just not as much as you do.
One thing for certain, whether we all like it or not, it would seem that most zoos are not building the massive animal houses any longer and the zoos of the future are slightly more modern and naturalistic like the Planckendaels of the world. Having said that, I saw the 'Pandasia' complex at Ouwehands Zoo and that is one enormous set of structures. I didn't really like the zoo in Rhenen, but that Giant Panda building is a memorable addition to a popular zoo. I cannot forget about @Bib Fortuna whom I've heard is an interesting guy from those that have met him via his 3 or 4 different aliases on ZooChat over the years or even at ZooHistorica each September. I think that you and I would have more in common in regards to zoos than you might initially think. I loved Frankfurt and also strongly dislike Tropic World at Brookfield Zoo, although you lumping it to together with JungleWorld in the Bronx is a bit harsh. Don't worry, I have thrown a lot of criticism at North American zoos over the years and you can always re-read old threads for the proof. Maybe it's because I'm over in Europe right now on a daily basis, but there is part of me that thinks maybe the European zoos are truly better overall. It's a tough call, and also a regional thing, as the zoos of certain unnamed nations in Europe won't register too highly while the zoos in the nations that I'm visiting are mainly impressive.
I've had a few emails and messages about the differences between Europe and America in terms of zoos (let's fact it, the U.S. dominates North America for zoos) and that's why I've been mentioning a few things here and there.
Europe 'wins' for elephant houses, giraffe houses and antelope houses because they are often large structures and the public can enter into most of them. Primate outdoor exhibits, especially the walk-through yards everywhere, is a clear bonus for European zoos. European zoos win for historic architecture, ornate design and historical value. Another win is birds of prey, plus the halting of pinioning birds in savanna enclosures. Europe might have better quality in terms of reptile terrariums, with fairly large sizes the norm. Europe wins for small animals like bats, rats and mice.
North America 'wins' in a big way for amenities. Whether it is gift shops, drinking fountains everywhere, free parking at many places, countless free zoo maps, free washrooms, etc.. Those are all extremely important aspects of a zoo visit. North America probably has far greater reptile collections in terms of quantity of species, and I'm not even talking about venomous snakes but a collection overall. Elephant exhibits are larger in the U.S., with much more space, as the zoos do tend to be larger than their Euro counterparts. The U.S. wins for pinnipeds.
It seems to me that big cats are fairly even, with the same going for bears. I think that North America might have more underwater viewing options for polar bears, grizzlies bears, tigers, penguins, etc., although that could be just anecdotal. One thing that I've noticed is that a LOT of the underwater viewing in Europe sees the water all green and it is something that then makes underwater viewing a mute point. I saw a Pygmy Hippo dive into a pool at GaiaZOO and I might as well have been looking at a wall painted green. I would say that 75% of all the underwater viewing has been very poor in Europe. In the U.S. all of the pools are crystal clear, which I wonder whether is actually better for the animals or not? My gut feeling is that the untreated, perhaps chlorine-free water in the European pools is better for the skin and eyes of the animals, with the viewing conditions in the U.S. better for visitors. I'm just guessing there...
Anyway, I could go on all day long and at the end of the day there's not much to choose between the two continents in terms of zoos. There are a lot of differences and so it's a nice contrast to see species over in Europe (like Dwarf Mongoose and Yellow Mongoose) so many times that I'm not bored of them...and yet in the U.S. it would be Bobcats and Coyotes every single day. Ha!
and have had it sitting on my hard drive since, awaiting the time when it can be put to use.
