zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Try massaging Mr Gills ego by saying what a great man he is,and how his big cats are the best looked after in the world,and finally say that you know that SLWAP is the best zoo in the world,then you will get an answer
South Lakes Wild Animal Park South Lakes 2014 #3
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South Lakes had a group of around 15 individuals when they went out of them... so that still leaves the question of where did they rest go?
a total of 12 have lived in South Lakes. 2 died in 2010, 1 in 2011 and 4 in 2013. Four females left to Zajezd.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Nothing to say that they haven't kept animals that are not listed on zims!
Also 4 + 4 + 1+ 2 = 11
Also 4 + 4 + 1+ 2 = 11
indeed. one other died in 2012.
That is quite a high mortality rate though some of them could have been infant or age related deaths. And it seems the remaining four did indeed go 'far into Europe' 
so I have removed my posts which queried that fact. But if they and the Heythrop animals end up in Chinese zoos, that could be a pity....
so I have removed my posts which queried that fact. But if they and the Heythrop animals end up in Chinese zoos, that could be a pity....That is quite a high mortality rate though some of them could have been infant or age related deaths. And it seems the remaining four did indeed go 'far into Europe'
Chinese zoos have also evolved, and some of them are not that bad. And although for some reasons many animals have died in South Lakes, in most other zoos they are doing very well and are very easy to keep. So they might be better off in China.
They have indeed. However I've seen some pretty appalling Primate cages featured recently in some of the Chinese gallery photos- it depends of course -if they did go to China- where they ended up. Its worth noting that some East European zoos still have abysmal primate housing too- unless the sender Zoo approves the housing beforehand (as does e.g. Howletts who won't transfer animals unless they do) its pretty much just a lottery whether they get better, worse, or the same standard of housing if sent away.
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Loosing that many Mandrill (plus the one in 2012) in that time period is quite shocking - they are normally fairly tough primates, there must have been some underlying cause? Or maybe it was just being at South Lakes that did it!!
Loosing that many Mandrill (plus the one in 2012) in that time period is quite shocking - they are normally fairly tough primates, there must have been some underlying cause? Or maybe it was just being at South Lakes that did it!!
What does that mean?. Is it a joke? Is it a valid possibility? Do you realise that adults are reading this? Are you saying this to gain brownie points from "the zoo critics"? I would really love to know.
Loosing that many Mandrill (plus the one in 2012) in that time period is quite shocking - they are normally fairly tough primates, there must have been some underlying cause? Or maybe it was just being at South Lakes that did it!!
Pygmy hippos responsible ? Assuming they were still sharing the outside enclosure .
Pretty sure he had his tongue firmly in cheek, but for the record:
SLWAP does have a higher than normal mortality rate in the species they hold; as Nanook is one of the older and more experienced members of this site he is certainly aware there are adults reading this thread; and finally, I've never known Nanook to mince his words to please others
Sounds plausible enough
aggression had certainly been seen between the two taxa in the past, both by myself and other visitors to the collection.
I remain unconvinced by the vision of Hippos feasting on Mandrills, and savage Ibis and Marmosets running amok, along with Peter the rabbit et al.
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Communityzoo
Well-Known Member
I think there is a wider issue here of transparency more generally across zoological collections. The kind of cyclical arguments seen around this particular institution (and others) on sites like this is really only solved by legislation and implemented through changes to licensing requirements. No UK zoo should be able to release inventories that obscure deaths, or amalgamate neonatal with adult deaths, plus I think they should all have to cite reasons for all deaths and hand-rearing percentages, and this data should be subject to audit. The public should be able to use this to inform their choices when deciding where to visit, should they wish to. Here, we are not talking about comparing captive mortality to that of wild counterparts, but to other captive holdings, and averages for the captive population generally. I think these benchmarks are entirely appropriate for the public domain.
Having a voluntary accredited body (BIAZA) doesn't work, because zoo owners can choose to leave, yet having a mandatory body of which membership is a condition of licence renewal is also highly problematic (and oppressive).
Having a voluntary accredited body (BIAZA) doesn't work, because zoo owners can choose to leave, yet having a mandatory body of which membership is a condition of licence renewal is also highly problematic (and oppressive).
Pretty sure he had his tongue firmly in cheek, but for the record:
SLWAP does have a higher than normal mortality rate in the species they hold; as Nanook is one of the older and more experienced members of this site he is certainly aware there are adults reading this thread; and finally, I've never known Nanook to mince his words to please others
Sounds plausible enough
Thanks Dave, at least you understand what I mean!
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Actually injury of a Mandrill at Zoo Halle by a Pygmy Hippo is just why Zoo Halle went out of Mandrills,so its very possible that the same could have happened at SLWAP!
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We’ll probably never know what happened to the mandrills so this speculation is pointless.
It is interesting to note, though, that pygmy hippos eating monkeys has been documented elsewhere; the pygmy hippos in Calcutta Zoo were recorded as killing and eating rhesus macaques......
I hasten to add that I am not saying that the South Lakes mandrill were eaten by the pygmy hippos, only pointing out that pygmy hippos eating monkeys is not as surprising as you think.
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
I don't know what happened, and I don't suppose I shall, but mixing Pygmy Hippo and Mandrill seems like a disaster waiting to happen. And why do it anyway?
It seems a very odd combination, but - judging by my one visit to South Lakes, as well as by information kindly posted on here by a variety of posters - it is an establishment which is not afraid of being ... innovative. Which can be a good thing, or a bad thing.
you could do it as an enrichment for both species. I do not think that Mandrills get that stressed from hippos, as long as the enclosur eis suitable: many structures where the mandrills can avoid the hippos. But as far as I remember it, the mandrills had a very bad, dark, damp inside enclosure, and that might have been the real problem. For a good stable group you need several cages, connected through tunnels and slides. And in the Lakes district the animals surely have to spent a good amount of the year inside.
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