South Lakes Wild Animal Park South Lakes 2014 #3

[dublinlion]

Tripadvisor give SLs a 86% rating, compared to acknowledged decent zoos such as Chester 89%, Howletts 81% and Marwell 77%.
But several reviewers mention the extreme hilliness of the location, which was something I'd never heard/read of before.

 

[bongorob]

Tripadvisor give SLs a 86% rating, compared to acknowledged decent zoos such as Chester 89%, Howletts 81% and Marwell 77%.
But several reviewers mention the extreme hilliness of the location, which was something I'd never heard/read of before.

Trip Advisor is notthing to go by.

 

[dublinlion]

Trip Advisor is notthing to go by.

Well it does reflect public satisfaction of hotels, attractions etc. with some degree of accuracy.
I would accept that the general public have a different perception/agenda than most of us zoo chatters, but all Hotels, Zoos etc., who rely on visitor numbers, will be aware of the commercial value of a good rating.

 

[SHAVINGTONZOO]

Tripadvisor give SLs a 86% rating, compared to acknowledged decent zoos such as Chester 89%, Howletts 81% and Marwell 77%.
But several reviewers mention the extreme hilliness of the location, which was something I'd never heard/read of before.

Never trust the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

 

[dublinlion]

Never trust the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

erm. I think that's the gist of my whole argument, and should be more accurately addressed towards the 'flat earthers'.

Trip advisor is a useful guide and can be used to help make a decision on whether or no to stay/visit some misc. hotel/zoo.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

It somewhat amuses me that someone that claims to have never visited the collection is comparing the opinions of those who *have* visited the collection to the uneducated rantings of flat-earthers Despite my distinct distaste for the collection in question, I'd always recommend someone visit at least once in order to see and judge it for themselves.

I suspect the disparity between the overall opinion of the collection on Zoochat and the opinion held on Trip Advisor can be partially chalked up to two factors:

1) It's pretty much - in terms of large zoos - the "only game in town" as far as people in Cumbria and the northeast of England are concerned.
2) The general populace are unlikely to notice problematic elements such as carnivores being mixed with prey species, or trainlines crossing footpaths with no safety barriers.

Certainly, had my first visit come prior to my gaining a better understanding of various issues regarding health and safety, appropriate enclosure design and animal welfare, I might well have left with a better impression than the one I left with due to these two factors. In much the same way, I was enthralled by Highland Wildlife Park when I visited as a small child, even though looking back it was sorely lacking in certain facets of enclosure design and animal welfare. Fortunately, it has long since learned from these mistakes and is now, I believe, one of the best collections in the UK.

In other words, visit SLWAP before you dismiss the opinions of those who find issue with the collection as a "dark conspiracy" as you have elsewhere; you may still disagree with the complaints afterwards, but at least you will be able to do so from personal experience.

 

[Animal Friendly]

It somewhat amuses me that someone that claims to have never visited the collection is comparing the opinions of those who *have* visited the collection to the uneducated rantings of flat-earthers Despite my distinct distaste for the collection in question, I'd always recommend someone visit at least once in order to see and judge it for themselves.

I suspect the disparity between the overall opinion of the collection on Zoochat and the opinion held on Trip Advisor can be partially chalked up to two factors:

1) It's pretty much - in terms of large zoos - the "only game in town" as far as people in Cumbria and the northeast of England are concerned.
2) The general populace are unlikely to notice problematic elements such as carnivores being mixed with prey species, or trainlines crossing footpaths with no safety barriers.

Certainly, had my first visit come prior to my gaining a better understanding of various issues regarding health and safety, appropriate enclosure design and animal welfare, I might well have left with a better impression than the one I left with due to these two factors. In much the same way, I was enthralled by Highland Wildlife Park when I visited as a small child, even though looking back it was sorely lacking in certain facets of enclosure design and animal welfare. Fortunately, it has long since learned from these mistakes and is now, I believe, one of the best collections in the UK.

In other words, visit SLWAP before you dismiss the opinions of those who find issue with the collection as a "dark conspiracy" as you have elsewhere; you may still disagree with the complaints afterwards, but at least you will be able to do so from personal experience.

100% per cent agree, If you have never visited the place then you are not in a real position to comment, I had visited the place almost annualy since its opening, I barred myself last year after being blocked on their facebook page after my one and only question concerning the whereabouts of Kadi the tiger, and since then young Sara the keeper lost her life under tragic circumstances, quite frankly I know I criticise other zoos but I think in most cases the criticism is derserved, as for South Lakes, this place now makes me want to vomit.

 

[bongorob]

I know a bit about animals and zoos, which is why I disregard trip advisor, most of the people commenting only want a good day out, and hopefully they will have one.

I know nothing about art, if I visit an art gallery and come away full of praise, it does not make it a good gallery. For all I know it may be the worst art gallery ever to have existed but I lack the knowledge to notice the faults. (Just an example, I am not anti art galleries)

South Lakes does get a lot of criticism on Zoo Chat, far more than anywhere else. There is a reason for this.

 

[SHAVINGTONZOO]

erm. I think that's the gist of my whole argument, and should be more accurately addressed towards the 'flat earthers'.

Trip advisor is a useful guide and can be used to help make a decision on whether or no to stay/visit some misc. hotel/zoo.

If you think my post (re collective wisdom/ individual ignorance) supported your argument then you misunderstood my post.

Most of the people posting on TripAdvisor have little or no special knowledge or interest re zoological collections. Most of the people posting on ZooChat do have special knowledge or interest re zoological collections.

So if TA says South Lakes is wonderful, and ZC says South Lakes is less than wonderful ..... then I know who I will take more notice of.

 

[Maguari]

The only thing I want to add to the Trip Advisor discussion - if there are people out there who find South Lakes to be extremely hilly, then they are curiously sensitive to hills for someone spending time on the edge of the Lake District! I'd be interested to see what they'd make of Dudley or Edinburgh (or Wuppertal, Prague or Usti!)...

 

[dublinlion]

If you think my post (re collective wisdom/ individual ignorance) supported your argument then you misunderstood my post.

Most of the people posting on TripAdvisor have little or no special knowledge or interest re zoological collections. Most of the people posting on ZooChat do have special knowledge or interest re zoological collections.

So if TA says South Lakes is wonderful, and ZC says South Lakes is less than wonderful ..... then I know who I will take more notice of.

Is there a smiley for exasperation.
What part of my posts would indicate that I don't know the above comment re. review sites, to be accurate.
As for misunderstanding your post, I concede that could be a distinct possibility.

 

[hippophilic]

Back on topic, do we know if the black and White ruffed lemurs are at all separate from the red ruffed? I know they share the walk through area but is it in rotation?
And are they a breeding group they've got or just single sex groups? I'm curious as far as offspring are concerned just incase they'd be hybrids?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Back on topic, do we know if the black and White ruffed lemurs are at all separate from the red ruffed? I know they share the walk through area but is it in rotation?
And are they a breeding group they've got or just single sex groups? I'm curious as far as offspring are concerned just incase they'd be hybrids?

Unfortunately those animals held at South Lakes are a three-way hybrid swarm. Belted Ruffed (Varecia variegata subcincta) are mixed with Pied Ruffed (Varecia variegata variegata) and Red Ruffed (Varecia rubra) and the three taxa breed freely with one another, leading to something of a hybrid complex in that population. There *are* pure animals in the group, including some of the offspring born every now and then, but there are also rather a lot of introgressive hybrids.

This is even more of a pity when one considers that the genetic and morphological evidence suggests it is only a matter of time before Belted and Pied are each granted full species status.

The following photo from the gallery actually shows all three taxa mixed together:

 

[dublinlion]

Right that's it, no more messing for me. Its bloody addictive.
Just reading back on some of the posts, it is obvious that there is a danger of overstepping the mark and causing hurt to sensitive people. I tend not to take things personally and have been reminded that other people often do.
So no offence meant and I do appreciate that the mods have a pretty thankless task.
So I will continue to post and argue, but in a less confrontational way.

 

[bigcat speciali]

Regarding "TripAdvisor", just type in "can I trust tripadvisor or what is the problem with tripadvisor" and you will get millions of hits. Here are just two articles pointing out such problems.

"TripAdvisor, for example, is predicated on the idea that you can bypass tour operators and agents altogether to get reliable advice from real people posting reviews of where they stay. But how trustworthy is it? TripAdvisor has always grappled with two key issues. Firstly, users of the site can never be sure of the motives of those who post reviews, and whether or not they share their tastes and preferences. Secondly, as Telegraph Travel has reported may times, TripAdvisor can’t always protect itself from fake reviews written, or commissioned by, the owner of the property concerned - or indeed by a rival down the road.
Despite the site’s attempts to tackle this, the Advertising Standards Authority last year [February 2012] ruled that TripAdvisor must not imply that all of its reviews were from real travellers, or were honest, real or trustworthy. As a result of that ruling, it no longer includes the phrase "reviews that you can trust" on its UK website. The ruling would appear to have been justified - in May of this year a prolific reviewer was unmasked as a senior executive at Accor, one of the world's largest hotel groups (needless to say he wrote dozens of glowing reviews about his own properties, and negative ones about nearby rivals), and in July a non-existent restaurant in Brixham rose to the top of TripAdvisor's rankings."

TripAdvisor and the issue of trust - Telegraph

Why TripAdvisor is getting a bad review | Travel | The Guardian

Just as TeaLovingDave has said: "Unfortunately those animals held at South Lakes are a three-way hybrid swarm. Belted Ruffed (Varecia variegata subcincta) are mixed with Pied Ruffed (Varecia variegata variegata) and Red Ruffed (Varecia rubra) and the three taxa breed freely with one another, leading to something of a hybrid complex in that population. There *are* pure animals in the group, including some of the offspring born every now and then, but there are also rather a lot of introgressive hybrids.

This is even more of a pity when one considers that the genetic and morphological evidence suggests it is only a matter of time before Belted and Pied are each granted full species status."

The mixing of species and sub-species has always been one of Gill's great ideas, something that has failed in multitude. Gill crows on about he is the great innovator of this and that within the zoo animal world, bragging and bashing other keepers and collections, when in truth it is just an ego problem which swarms out of him in thick droves. From the white rhino and electric fence and escaping matter to manner others where this super-ego has blown it's top. So, when TA says it is brilliant (bit like South Lakes FB page) then I would take it with a pinch of salt. As for being "hilly", it is indeed but other collections are even hillier, Edinburgh is one example. The many issues that Gill has is one we all know about and one we seem to all or most of all, agree to.

 

[Sand Cat]

Unfortunately those animals held at South Lakes are a three-way hybrid swarm. Belted Ruffed (Varecia variegata subcincta) are mixed with Pied Ruffed (Varecia variegata variegata) and Red Ruffed (Varecia rubra) and the three taxa breed freely with one another, leading to something of a hybrid complex in that population. There *are* pure animals in the group, including some of the offspring born every now and then, but there are also rather a lot of introgressive hybrids.

This is even more of a pity when one considers that the genetic and morphological evidence suggests it is only a matter of time before Belted and Pied are each granted full species status.

That is really disgusting and irresponsible, especially with the Belted Lemurs which are hardly ten-a-penny in zoos! What angers me more though, is that some years ago a family member had a discussion with Gill about some hybrid lemurs at an animal sanctuary, suggesting that it would be nice to have some at SLWAP to give them more space. His response was very abrupt saying that there is no purpose in hybrid animals and making it quite clear that they should be put down. What a hypocrite... yet I'm not especially surprised!

 

[TeaLovingDave]

His response was very abrupt saying that there is no purpose in hybrid animals and making it quite clear that they should be put down. What a hypocrite... yet I'm not especially surprised!

His "white-fronted" lemurs are hybrids too.

Considering the fact he makes a big show about keeping an unusual subspecies of giraffe (even if he continues to misidentify which subspecies he holds) yet mixes the pure females with both pure and hybrid males - with the result that the two calves born this year are officially listed in the studbook as hybrid animals due to Gill's refusal to have them tested - his hypocricy is not limited to lemurs...

 

[Nanook]

There has always been one main problem with South Lakes...... and that is its owner, as most of us - zoo enthusiasts, on here know only too well.
I don`t want to keep going on about it, but just to say....... (and the lemur situation mentioned is just another example.)
The zoo itself could be very nice, and to some visitors it obviously is very nice - on the face of it, but then they don`t have the benefit of knowing the "man behind the mayhem" like most of us do.
So I think that is where some confusion comes from.
And it is inevitable that all the South Lakes threads on here eventually, at some point, deteriorate into "anti-Mr Gill threads".
Though we all know he has brought it all on himself.
He is his own worse enemy.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I have removed the unnecessary squabbling and ad hominem attacks directed at other Zoochatters from this thread

 

[Nisha]

North West Evening Mail | News | Dalton zoo boss shot birds in front of staff - court hears Mr.Gill is back in court again over the Ibis escape