Taronga Zoo Taronga's Elephants and other news!!!
- Thread starter Danale
- Start date
first of all can i clear something up so as not to los my credibility. i was suggesting moving both of auckland zoos' elephants to Perth, not just the younger female.
zooboy did bring up another good point, as Taronga had originally intended for AI to be used. certainly, this technique is not only becoming more succesful but would have given the zoo alot more control in breeding its elephants; delaying and staggering births of calves. if they had not acquired Gung, the use of AI on the two older females and leter the two young cows would have staged the births and what to do with the maturing calves would have had to be considered after the current materplan expires in 2012.
but as we all know, masterplan changes. instead of being criticised it should at least be considered that Taronga has remained quite flexible in terms of its participation in the plan; the import of Gung was a major backflip which, in retrospect did occur quite early on in the piece and Taronga was quick to absorb him into their plans. also, Taronga does have the space and assets to accomodate a bull, or two, so overall, the breeding strategy, formulated in the 1990s and really ironed out in 2004, has, despite major hiccups and facing numerous setbacks, progressed rather well.
i still maintain the with the wholescale loss of exotic species accross the region both our urban and open range zoos will shortly be running on empty. investing in world class facilities for a viable population of asian elephants is not only a good conservation and education decision, it was also a good business one.
you cant have a zoo without animals, and though im open to debate on whether a zoo can exist without elephants, and it probably can, this species has been (and rightly or wrongly so) a priority for ARAZPA for over a decade now, and we all know there arent too many other species to choose from. when it comes to meaningful breeding programs for endangered mega-vertabrates, the Australasian zoo community is really only useful for elephants and two species of rhino.
zooboy did bring up another good point, as Taronga had originally intended for AI to be used. certainly, this technique is not only becoming more succesful but would have given the zoo alot more control in breeding its elephants; delaying and staggering births of calves. if they had not acquired Gung, the use of AI on the two older females and leter the two young cows would have staged the births and what to do with the maturing calves would have had to be considered after the current materplan expires in 2012.
but as we all know, masterplan changes. instead of being criticised it should at least be considered that Taronga has remained quite flexible in terms of its participation in the plan; the import of Gung was a major backflip which, in retrospect did occur quite early on in the piece and Taronga was quick to absorb him into their plans. also, Taronga does have the space and assets to accomodate a bull, or two, so overall, the breeding strategy, formulated in the 1990s and really ironed out in 2004, has, despite major hiccups and facing numerous setbacks, progressed rather well.
i still maintain the with the wholescale loss of exotic species accross the region both our urban and open range zoos will shortly be running on empty. investing in world class facilities for a viable population of asian elephants is not only a good conservation and education decision, it was also a good business one.
you cant have a zoo without animals, and though im open to debate on whether a zoo can exist without elephants, and it probably can, this species has been (and rightly or wrongly so) a priority for ARAZPA for over a decade now, and we all know there arent too many other species to choose from. when it comes to meaningful breeding programs for endangered mega-vertabrates, the Australasian zoo community is really only useful for elephants and two species of rhino.
hmmmmm. not sure how much i believe that one. considering that still would have meant designing an exhibit with bull facilities, something they didn't do.
anyhow, i think the smartest move now would be to run the new elephant exhibit all the way across to the renovated old (bull) exhibit. so that gung can run with the females in the "wild asia" area just as they can utilise the bull area.
Well i ma guessing mainly A.I with them using his seamen, but it was a delayed process getting them over, and settled, by tht time sadley heamn died.
I dont actually think that would have worked pat. From memory, there was a alrge drop in between old discovery farm (WILD ASIA) to seals, across gibbon island then to old ele facilities.
I was thinking last night, maybe an elephant trail could be built, as so he can be walked. I mean nice decorastive barriers as fences disguise fact from visitors. Using a system of gates, and fence, you could provide a half km walking track from one side of zoo to another.
Also just outside the zoo i have noticed on google earth a large grassed area outside zoo property with a large house on it, about twice size of current ele exhibit. Its in national park. Maybe that could be future area for elephant play, (hypothetically if zoo purchased, came to agreement.)
I dont actually think that would have worked pat. From memory, there was a alrge drop in between old discovery farm (WILD ASIA) to seals, across gibbon island then to old ele facilities.
I was thinking last night, maybe an elephant trail could be built, as so he can be walked. I mean nice decorastive barriers as fences disguise fact from visitors. Using a system of gates, and fence, you could provide a half km walking track from one side of zoo to another.
Also just outside the zoo i have noticed on google earth a large grassed area outside zoo property with a large house on it, about twice size of current ele exhibit. Its in national park. Maybe that could be future area for elephant play, (hypothetically if zoo purchased, came to agreement.)
MARK
Well-Known Member
Thats a great idea, I wonder IF they could/would consider that idea, as you say it could work BOTH ways for the male and females
Zoobiy, can you please not use this word. I keep thinking of men in navy uniforms doing strange things to elephants.
Elephants in Australia.
I'm fascinated as to why the keeping of elephants in Australia(particularly Taronga, and also Melbourne) arouses such high emotions, bad publicity and immense discussion....
While there has been critisism of elephants in zoos around the world, its usually in respect of old or unsuitable housing. Many groups of elephants are nowadays successfully kept in Uk and European zoos with little adverse publicity When Chester's Asian 'calf' Sithami herself gave birth at the age of six- it made no news that I know of. But in Australia there seems a much stronger emotional tide against the keeping of elephants and everything to do with them in captivity...
I'm fascinated as to why the keeping of elephants in Australia(particularly Taronga, and also Melbourne) arouses such high emotions, bad publicity and immense discussion....
While there has been critisism of elephants in zoos around the world, its usually in respect of old or unsuitable housing. Many groups of elephants are nowadays successfully kept in Uk and European zoos with little adverse publicity When Chester's Asian 'calf' Sithami herself gave birth at the age of six- it made no news that I know of. But in Australia there seems a much stronger emotional tide against the keeping of elephants and everything to do with them in captivity...
But not just elephants. I feel that there is a strong, vocal if very minority group that are anti-zoo all together. The focus is on elephants at the moment because they are charismatic mega fauna which does not have much of a good history in the country and are easy to get the general publc emotional about. What do other Aussie members think?
I think its probably that- the smaller numbers of Aussie elephants makes them more of a target for comment- particularly as the recent 'bulk' importation of young females is probably the first of its kind to take place within Australia. In Europe/Uk a number of young females have been obtained from similar sources(such Thai/Burmese logging camps) yet to my knowledge without generating anything like the same levels of criticism among the anti-zoo people.
What makes me smile when I read some of the criticisms is that Taronga's and Melbourne's new exhibits and management for their newly aquired elephants are obviously topclass- even if Taronga's enclosure is deemed to be on the small side- and probably far superior to some of the older exhibits still in use in Europe!!
What makes me smile
when I read some of the criticisms is that Taronga's and Melbourne's new exhibits and management for their newly aquired elephants are obviously topclass- even if Taronga's enclosure is deemed to be on the small side- and probably far superior to some of the older exhibits still in use in Europe!!
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some of our foreign forum members might get the wrong impression from this forum, there is an overwhelming sense of support for the elephant program and zoos in general in this country-most of Australias zoos are their respective city's top attractions and depending on what surey you believe the elephant import had public support rates in excess of 90%. it really is a minority group protesting against the eles.
the idea of linking the bull paddock to the wild asia exhibit with a fence along the main boulevard is something ive posted on this forum many months ago, but i believe that any 'link' road between the two exhibits will recquire a much more clever engineering solution than just a solid fence, because in parts the road is narrower or needs to be kept open for visitor circulation (try squeezing several hundred people through an asian elephant gateway when the seal show ends).
i think the most sensible, albeit expensive alternative would be, in parts, a permanent system of fences and gateways, say for example at the back of the new bull barn, but the rest of the fence way could be made from bollards similar to those they emply at the opera house in sydney, or various mcdonalds. they are several feet high, and i guess could even be made bigger, and sit in holes in the ground when not in use. if an animal needed to be moved along the road for mating, the bollards could be raised up out of the road a chain/cable system threaded through holes in them, or a public barricade erected whilst the animals are moving. such a fence system would not effect zoo visitors, in fact if you moved the elephants in the morning or afternoon people would be completely unaware. spaced about a metre or so apart, no elephant could squeeze through or obviously jump over, and it would mean that instead of only the females walking down that Gung could actually walk in the opposite direction for a bit of change of scenery.
so thats my solution to what isnt actually that big a deal. that, and the further expansion of the exhibit into the asian highlands area.
the idea of linking the bull paddock to the wild asia exhibit with a fence along the main boulevard is something ive posted on this forum many months ago, but i believe that any 'link' road between the two exhibits will recquire a much more clever engineering solution than just a solid fence, because in parts the road is narrower or needs to be kept open for visitor circulation (try squeezing several hundred people through an asian elephant gateway when the seal show ends).
i think the most sensible, albeit expensive alternative would be, in parts, a permanent system of fences and gateways, say for example at the back of the new bull barn, but the rest of the fence way could be made from bollards similar to those they emply at the opera house in sydney, or various mcdonalds. they are several feet high, and i guess could even be made bigger, and sit in holes in the ground when not in use. if an animal needed to be moved along the road for mating, the bollards could be raised up out of the road a chain/cable system threaded through holes in them, or a public barricade erected whilst the animals are moving. such a fence system would not effect zoo visitors, in fact if you moved the elephants in the morning or afternoon people would be completely unaware. spaced about a metre or so apart, no elephant could squeeze through or obviously jump over, and it would mean that instead of only the females walking down that Gung could actually walk in the opposite direction for a bit of change of scenery.
so thats my solution to what isnt actually that big a deal. that, and the further expansion of the exhibit into the asian highlands area.
In My opinion-
Glyn, whilst i defintally support the linking between the 2 exhibits, (i brought it up unaware of you previously metioning it) I did not bring mine up for sole purpose of moving animals for breeding, my idea was (though assist in breeding, it is not needed) is that the ele trail would allow for Gung to utilise another area, as once he is in his new facility, thats it!. The Girls will move up to him when ever it is pleased, and bull barn is actually a full breeding afcility, with 3 large stalls, and a ERD.
So by having a full time fence, he could utilse anothe rpaddock when ever keepers decided it was needed, or even have extended night time access.
On this you raise a very important issue of the need to accomodate the vast crowds around the seal shows. I found a possible to route he could take to building this fence,
1 Taronga boulavard,
2. along base of bull afcility, (down hill) through GSO - there is actully a arge base down the bottom, then past old sun bear, up the hill, and directly into abrn. The advantage i see wuth this is that it is a fare distance, therefore extended exercise. Most new exhibits i have seen, for example The national zoo in wasghinton is building a ele trail around it's exhibit, and actaully in some plans through middle of two exhibits. Its very effective.
For Taronga boulavard, it would be hard with as you said space, as you will need a kjeeper walk way the entire distance, and around the palm plaza, and right around to barn. I beleive that would be hard. I would say IF something like thatw as built, it would be very hard through this pedestrain area, as there would be too much fencing out the front of the dinning hall.
So in my evaluation, the only route would be down the base of GSO, and not trhough the main pedestrain fare way- as to much fencing would create porblems. (and i undertsand you would only move the bull after o0r before hours.
I might jump on google earth now, and map out a route!
Glyn, whilst i defintally support the linking between the 2 exhibits, (i brought it up unaware of you previously metioning it) I did not bring mine up for sole purpose of moving animals for breeding, my idea was (though assist in breeding, it is not needed) is that the ele trail would allow for Gung to utilise another area, as once he is in his new facility, thats it!. The Girls will move up to him when ever it is pleased, and bull barn is actually a full breeding afcility, with 3 large stalls, and a ERD.
So by having a full time fence, he could utilse anothe rpaddock when ever keepers decided it was needed, or even have extended night time access.
On this you raise a very important issue of the need to accomodate the vast crowds around the seal shows. I found a possible to route he could take to building this fence,
1 Taronga boulavard,
2. along base of bull afcility, (down hill) through GSO - there is actully a arge base down the bottom, then past old sun bear, up the hill, and directly into abrn. The advantage i see wuth this is that it is a fare distance, therefore extended exercise. Most new exhibits i have seen, for example The national zoo in wasghinton is building a ele trail around it's exhibit, and actaully in some plans through middle of two exhibits. Its very effective.
For Taronga boulavard, it would be hard with as you said space, as you will need a kjeeper walk way the entire distance, and around the palm plaza, and right around to barn. I beleive that would be hard. I would say IF something like thatw as built, it would be very hard through this pedestrain area, as there would be too much fencing out the front of the dinning hall.
So in my evaluation, the only route would be down the base of GSO, and not trhough the main pedestrain fare way- as to much fencing would create porblems. (and i undertsand you would only move the bull after o0r before hours.
I might jump on google earth now, and map out a route!
torie
Well-Known Member
hi Zoo_Boy,
while the technology that you have is very cool i dont think either of those routes would really work. the top route which glyn has proposed with the movable fences ect sounds very expensive and has to potential to go really wrong if they say dont go down as planned one morning effectivly cutting of GSO and the second route. the lower one not only cuts through the new massive eopard seal pool and countn't pass that closs to the bottom entrence as there is the underwater veiwing tank there but it also passes either thgorugh or behind its hard to tell from the line you have drawn, the wildasisa silverly gibbon exhibit and i behind it is the only current path to exit the zoo from the lower gate and a steap cliff drop beyond that so i dont think the elephants could fit there it also cuts very close under the sky safari and i dont think its safe to have the elephants that close whislt im sure they count reach it as such it they could probably throw that high if they tried...
i dont want you to think that i am totally against your idea i think it would be a really good idea to link the too im just playing devils advocate and poking holes in your plan.
while the technology that you have is very cool i dont think either of those routes would really work. the top route which glyn has proposed with the movable fences ect sounds very expensive and has to potential to go really wrong if they say dont go down as planned one morning effectivly cutting of GSO and the second route. the lower one not only cuts through the new massive eopard seal pool and countn't pass that closs to the bottom entrence as there is the underwater veiwing tank there but it also passes either thgorugh or behind its hard to tell from the line you have drawn, the wildasisa silverly gibbon exhibit and i behind it is the only current path to exit the zoo from the lower gate and a steap cliff drop beyond that so i dont think the elephants could fit there it also cuts very close under the sky safari and i dont think its safe to have the elephants that close whislt im sure they count reach it as such it they could probably throw that high if they tried...
i dont want you to think that i am totally against your idea i think it would be a really good idea to link the too im just playing devils advocate and poking holes in your plan.