Berlin Tierpark Tierpark Berlin News 2024

OkapiJohn said:
You are assuming , wrongly, that number of holders is the same as number of individuals and you are also assuming that every individual/holder is part of the breeding programme. There are many instances of individuals deemed redundant in a breeding programme that end up removed from it. Others might be senescent (not fertile anymore due to advanced age). There are also many holders in ZTL that hold animals of an EEP species, but these animals are not part of the EEP. I do not know if that is the case for the snow leopard but it happens with other species. The same also happens the other way around. Universities, governmental breeding centres, or even private holders that have individuals belonging to an EEP but because they are not zoos they do not appear in ZTL. Number of holders (especially in ZTL) is a bad metric to measure the sustainability of a zoo population. So do not blame the snow leopard for the lack of space for the other leopards. The snow leopard needs that space and even more.
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If you leave Utopia and land on earth, you might want to read this paper:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128022139000213?via=ihub#s0030

The current EEP population is over 200 individuals strong, has 56 founders, very low inbreeding and a high level of genetic diversity (95.6%). Whatever sustainable means in your book, the snow leopard EEP is as sustainable as you will realistically get in a zoo setting bar a few very popular widely kept animals. The alternative is to focus on some 60 mammal species worldwide to attain sustainable numbers (with a necessary effective population size of 500 individuals, that has implied to meant some minimum 700-1900 animals per species, which is a ridiculous goal for most). Fortunately many conservation projects in situ, but also ex situ have achieved great success with far smaller numbers that could never have been deemed sustainable if you follow the standards. A risk is not a doom day scenario, just a risk, and many animals seem far more resilient or adaptable than the risks imply.
 
lintworm said:
If you leave Utopia and land on earth, you might want to read this paper:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128022139000213?via=ihub#s0030

The current EEP population is over 200 individuals strong, has 56 founders, very low inbreeding and a high level of genetic diversity (95.6%). Whatever sustainable means in your book, the snow leopard EEP is as sustainable as you will realistically get in a zoo setting bar a few very popular widely kept animals. The alternative is to focus on some 60 mammal species worldwide to attain sustainable numbers (with a necessary effective population size of 500 individuals, that has implied to meant some minimum 700-1900 animals per species, which is a ridiculous goal for most). Fortunately many conservation projects in situ, but also ex situ have achieved great success with far smaller numbers that could never have been deemed sustainable if you follow the standards. A risk is not a doom day scenario, just a risk, and many animals seem far more resilient or adaptable than the risks imply.
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I just checked and snow leopard has an international studbook, which strongly suggests a level of global management. At the global level the population is quite big indeed. I am not into the snow leopard breeding programme, hence my request for a source of feasible information. Not the number of holders in ztl.
I just tried to bring awareness that number of institutions is not a good metric to judge sustainability which seems to be quite common around zoochat.
Thank you for sharing the information
 
The wild population of Javan Leopards is only 319 (188 – 571) individuals, scattered in over 20 isolated pockets of habitat, with immediate extinction likely in all but 3 of them. This number is a good benchmark to show that any 'small' zoo population would be nevertheless extremely valuable.

The wild population has no chance to ever become much more common or safe in the wild, due to the human population density on Java. And Indonesia simply does not have enough zoos to keep a bigger zoo population by itself. There is not much room for them at home.

So I hope for a new attempt to establish Javan Leopards in Europe.
 
Jurek7 said:
The wild population of Javan Leopards is only 319 (188 – 571) individuals, scattered in over 20 isolated pockets of habitat, with immediate extinction likely in all but 3 of them. This number is a good benchmark to show that any 'small' zoo population would be nevertheless extremely valuable.

The wild population has no chance to ever become much more common or safe in the wild, due to the human population density on Java. And Indonesia simply does not have enough zoos to keep a bigger zoo population by itself. There is not much room for them at home.

So I hope for a new attempt to establish Javan Leopards in Europe.
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To be totally honest I find it remarkable they're not already extinct in the wild!
 
Cat-Man said:
To be totally honest I find it remarkable they're not already extinct in the wild!
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Testament to the versatility of leopards really - I don't think any other big cat could persist in such a highly populated area. Having said that their survival now essentially depends on connecting the populations, especially those in the far West and far East of the island. Anyways, a bit off track given the point of the thread, apologies.
 
amur leopard said:
Testament to the versatility of leopards really - I don't think any other big cat could persist in such a highly populated area. Having said that their survival now essentially depends on connecting the populations, especially those in the far West and far East of the island. Anyways, a bit off track given the point of the thread, apologies.
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My fault! Perhaps a dedicated thread should be created.
 
I don't really mind either way. The recent development has been a heavy loss both for the species and it's quite a loss for the park as well in my view.

If there won't be any new Javan Leopards, I am wondering what they'll do with the exhibits. They may of course move existing species around. But they also could have some new species from South East Asia.

cerperal said:
In other news...having now seen the elephant house, it is slightly confusing that it's still over a year from completion given how finished it is externally. Obviously it needs the roof and I assume it's gutted inside so given the size I guess it makes sense. Thoroughly impressive building regardless.
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Actually, it would still be quite awesome, if they make it till 2025. Funny enough, I have always thought it won't be done before 2025, even back when they had much more ambitious schedules. But now that they plan for 2025 I kind of feel like they may not even make it by then. Big building projects at Berlin Tierpark tend to take "forever", particularly if it involves old structures.
 
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Jurek7 said:
And Indonesia simply does not have enough zoos to keep a bigger zoo population by itself. There is not much room for them at home.

So I hope for a new attempt to establish Javan Leopards in Europe.
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Really? All Indonesian zoos are full of Javan leopards? I doubt it.
Even though, it would probably makes more sense to invest into building local facilities to expand the population rather than spend money in paperwork for painfully importing 4 or 5 individuals, hoping they will breed fast enough to start to develop a second small isolated population.

I do not say that the situation of Javan leopard is not critical and zoos should not try to save the specie. It should be a priority and it even makes sense to have an EEP to consolidate efforts from European zoos for the subspecie, both in and ex-situ. European (but also American, Singapore or Australasian institutions) would be very qualified to help, both financially and in practice with the breeding of Javan leopard where the ex-situ population is already concentrated.
 
markmeier said:
Actually, it would still be quite awesome, if they make it till 2025. Funny enough, I have always thought it won't be done before 2025, even back when they had much more ambitious schedules. But now that they plan for 2025 I kind of feel like they may not even make it by then. Bug building projects at Berlin Tierpark tend to take "forever", particularly if it involves old structures.
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Well I'll certainly trust your assessment over mine! I had a similar feeling with the new South-East Asian exhibit, as that seemed halfway done during my 2021 visit. But having seen it now, it's a far more major construction and looks fantastic. I guess it's worth taking time on projects like those, save ending up with a situation like the zoo wherein most enclosures in the cat house are in need of extension.

As an aside...I was pleasantly surprised by the dinosaurs. They seem well made, some are even almost accurate and they're contained to a small portion of the zoo.

And an aside of an aside...I was amazed at how many empty enclosures there are, especially below Himalaya. Which is no bad thing, especially when the collection is already so diverse. One thing I did want to ask - is an Addax usually mixed with the wild ass? My guess was it's a male seperated from the main group but if anyone knows better I'd love more info.
 
cerperal said:
Well I'll certainly trust your assessment over mine! I had a similar feeling with the new South-East Asian exhibit, as that seemed halfway done during my 2021 visit. But having seen it now, it's a far more major construction and looks fantastic. I guess it's worth taking time on projects like those, save ending up with a situation like the zoo wherein most enclosures in the cat house are in need of extension.

As an aside...I was pleasantly surprised by the dinosaurs. They seem well made, some are even almost accurate and they're contained to a small portion of the zoo.

And an aside of an aside...I was amazed at how many empty enclosures there are, especially below Himalaya. Which is no bad thing, especially when the collection is already so diverse. One thing I did want to ask - is an Addax usually mixed with the wild ass? My guess was it's a male seperated from the main group but if anyone knows better I'd love more info.
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As they hardly give any updates, it's virtually Impossible to say anything substantial about their progress. It's more of a (pessimistic) gut feeling rather than any real assessment. But the past experience shows: the struggle with these huge old buildings is quite real. Even the director himself suggested he is fed up with these complicated old structures (I think this he made that statement after some major delay with the elephant buildings). But I guess after this project they are through with this at the Tierpark for a long time (unlike with the Zoo).

But I agree that most projects seem to get quite good in the end. So I try to be patient, even though it can be challenging.
 
As for the temporary exhibits/ solutions, I kind of lost track. They do tend to locate some of their surplus males in bachelor groups or along with other species.
 
I think that one of three males of javan leopards that are still in Europe will came to tierpark, because curator of Prague zoo said that they just keep Arjuna until tierpark will again have space for him. So in Berlin we could see Pelangi from Pairi Daiza, Timang from Bioparc de Doue or Arjuna from Prague zoo in I hope near future. That's my prediction.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
In all likelihood, of course, it's actually the first born at the collection :p
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Well, the female arrived with a little one inside (but I guess that might be what you mean by first born).

Some other (surprising!) news: Apparently, the Tierpark indeed plans to house Javan Leopards again "soon" according to official communication with media. But they also stated it will be a lot of effort and take some time.

So it seems like they still have rather good ties to Indonesia.
 
markmeier said:
Well, the female arrived with a little one inside (but I guess that might be what you mean by first born).
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Yes, I wasn't sure if the fact the previous birth had actually taken place in Poland - but did not leave the pouch until after the female arrived in Germany - was on-record or not (especially given the fact that Tierpark social media are now making claims which run counter to this) hence my slightly vague language :)
 
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