Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Master Plan 2022
- Thread starter TZFan
- Start date
@Esox, I like your thinking on focusing on getting the Canadian species up to provide more cold tolerant species. Thats the hard sell in the winter. So much is off display outside. If we could consolidate our cold hardy animals in the northern portion of the zoo it would give guests better bang for their buck in the winter and hopefully encourage more winter visitors. Great perspective to take on that!
Sadly I dont think you will see some of your choices. The moon bears and monkeys will never happen. I would love to see the leopards and thankfully they have been clear about wanting markhor which would be a fantastic addition. Musk ox sadly probably wont happen as they aren't overly common in zoos these days. I would love to have the species back though. Pains me to say the walruses wont happen. The odds of getting them now are back to near impossible. Dreams dashed by just rotten luck!
I like that you chose a different angle to look at things. Hopefully you will share more with us @Esox because we could use some fresh ways to look at things around here. Great group but some of us have just been friends for so long we now share a lot of our opinions. @cypher and I have talked so long we can anticipate the other ones responses. New blood is good to keep it fresh.
Sadly I dont think you will see some of your choices. The moon bears and monkeys will never happen. I would love to see the leopards and thankfully they have been clear about wanting markhor which would be a fantastic addition. Musk ox sadly probably wont happen as they aren't overly common in zoos these days. I would love to have the species back though. Pains me to say the walruses wont happen. The odds of getting them now are back to near impossible. Dreams dashed by just rotten luck!
I like that you chose a different angle to look at things. Hopefully you will share more with us @Esox because we could use some fresh ways to look at things around here. Great group but some of us have just been friends for so long we now share a lot of our opinions. @cypher and I have talked so long we can anticipate the other ones responses. New blood is good to keep it fresh.
@TZFan thanks for starting this! I always enjoy taking part in this stuff, though I apologize if there are stretches where you don’t hear from me.
To be honest, I’m just looking forward to seeing what the vision is for this management team. With the amount of research and investment that’s been done, this master plan will tell us more about the possibilities and future of the zoo than anything before. I’m specifically talking about things like erosion, AODA compliance, and the animal lives with a matter plan. Whatever has come of those will impact whether all the unused space in the Savanna can be used, or whether the picnic area near the temple can be used. Also which new species will be joining the collection, and which areas need to be prioritized. With the previous management team, it never felt like they had invested this much in improving the zoo, and doing all the background work necessary to effectively plan future developments - see Great Barrier Reef & Eurasia Wilds.
With all that babble aside, I’m just excited to see the zoo get refurbished. Recent visits have shown me just how great the minor improvements have been going. I absolutely love all of the reptile, amphibian and invert renovations! The murals in the Indian Rhino house, Wombat/Echidna exhibit, Giraffe house and Small Monkeys area are all incredible! I really just want to see this applied to the zoo as a whole, on top of expanding exhibits for current species and trying more mixes. In a worst case scenario for the master plan, if they just said they are doing the entrance and renovating every exhibit to the new standard of quality, I wouldn’t be too bummed at all. And I think this is great, because I truly believe the master plan will be better than that.
As for some new species (highly doubt they’ll be too many large mammals added but one can hope!), I’ll share a little realistic, conservation valuable list. Though the Aussie animals aren’t too realistic, but again, one can hope!
Indo-Malaya - Lowland Anoa/Malayan Tapir
African Rainforest - Mandrill/Red Ruffed Lemur
African Savanna - Addra Gazelle/African Wild Dog/Scimitar-Horned Oryx/Speke’s Gazelle
Americas - Giant Anteater/Southern Pudu
Canadian Wilderness - Mountain Goat/Pronghorn
Australasia - Koala/Tasmanian Devil
Eurasia - Amur Leopard/Markhor/Sichuan Takin/Sloth Bear
To be honest, I’m just looking forward to seeing what the vision is for this management team. With the amount of research and investment that’s been done, this master plan will tell us more about the possibilities and future of the zoo than anything before. I’m specifically talking about things like erosion, AODA compliance, and the animal lives with a matter plan. Whatever has come of those will impact whether all the unused space in the Savanna can be used, or whether the picnic area near the temple can be used. Also which new species will be joining the collection, and which areas need to be prioritized. With the previous management team, it never felt like they had invested this much in improving the zoo, and doing all the background work necessary to effectively plan future developments - see Great Barrier Reef & Eurasia Wilds.
With all that babble aside, I’m just excited to see the zoo get refurbished. Recent visits have shown me just how great the minor improvements have been going. I absolutely love all of the reptile, amphibian and invert renovations! The murals in the Indian Rhino house, Wombat/Echidna exhibit, Giraffe house and Small Monkeys area are all incredible! I really just want to see this applied to the zoo as a whole, on top of expanding exhibits for current species and trying more mixes. In a worst case scenario for the master plan, if they just said they are doing the entrance and renovating every exhibit to the new standard of quality, I wouldn’t be too bummed at all. And I think this is great, because I truly believe the master plan will be better than that.
As for some new species (highly doubt they’ll be too many large mammals added but one can hope!), I’ll share a little realistic, conservation valuable list. Though the Aussie animals aren’t too realistic, but again, one can hope!
Indo-Malaya - Lowland Anoa/Malayan Tapir
African Rainforest - Mandrill/Red Ruffed Lemur
African Savanna - Addra Gazelle/African Wild Dog/Scimitar-Horned Oryx/Speke’s Gazelle
Americas - Giant Anteater/Southern Pudu
Canadian Wilderness - Mountain Goat/Pronghorn
Australasia - Koala/Tasmanian Devil
Eurasia - Amur Leopard/Markhor/Sichuan Takin/Sloth Bear
Great insight in what to expect in the Master Plan @animalman0341. Keeping overall expectations low is smart, as anything that does come out will be a happy surprise. Also interesting what you said on the vision of management. That will definitely tell us what we can expect in the future of the zoo even beyond the master plan.
@animalman0341, thanks I thought this would be a great way for us old timers and the new guys to let loose and really share our passions and hopes for the zoos future while getting to know each other so much better. And never apologize for your absences. Always glad when you come back!
You are very right about the plan showing us just what this new management team is made of. They have done their work and are clearly interested in being innovative while spending money wisely.
I agree the small touches and improvements have gone a long way and if thats all that happens thats cool. The small projects show people constant improvement which is good for guests to see and by doing smaller projects they have more money to go all out with that project. I would rather less work but high quality work.
I like your wish list but most are probably really unlikely based on what we know so far. Any additional lemur species would be welcome and I have zero clue why its not been done yet. Keepers would like to add a gazelle so maybe we have hope there. Who knows what the Canadian Wilderness has in store. Eurasia might be your greatest hope. Sloth bears are a definite no just because of the population and needs but the others range from already planned to very possible. I would happily take the whole list though.
No matter what is in the plan my biggest hope is that Dolf and his team of doers stick around to see it completed! I would hate to see all their work and vision go into this turn into nothing under a new team that lacks their drive and ability to get stuff done to wonderful levels we just aren't used to.
You are very right about the plan showing us just what this new management team is made of. They have done their work and are clearly interested in being innovative while spending money wisely.
I agree the small touches and improvements have gone a long way and if thats all that happens thats cool. The small projects show people constant improvement which is good for guests to see and by doing smaller projects they have more money to go all out with that project. I would rather less work but high quality work.
I like your wish list but most are probably really unlikely based on what we know so far. Any additional lemur species would be welcome and I have zero clue why its not been done yet. Keepers would like to add a gazelle so maybe we have hope there. Who knows what the Canadian Wilderness has in store. Eurasia might be your greatest hope. Sloth bears are a definite no just because of the population and needs but the others range from already planned to very possible. I would happily take the whole list though.
No matter what is in the plan my biggest hope is that Dolf and his team of doers stick around to see it completed! I would hate to see all their work and vision go into this turn into nothing under a new team that lacks their drive and ability to get stuff done to wonderful levels we just aren't used to.
@animalman0341, I think all of us would be disappointed if we didn't get some kind of savanna mix.
RhinoHippoElephantGiraffe
Well-Known Member
Are the hippos and indian rhinos supposed to leave this year?
hyena142
Well-Known Member
@RhinoHippoElephantGiraffe Indian rhinos definitely not. There's a chance Asha could move out this year as she has a home picked out but as far as I know the plan is for Vishnu and Kiran to stick around for a while longer. No idea how long they'll stay but I imagine complete phase out is still a very long ways off for the species unless the boys suddenly find themselves in high demand for some reason.
Hippos are hard to say because last I heard Petal and Perky are still up for adoption with no takers yet, so there's nothing on that front at the moment but any day now some zoo could decide to take them in. If I were a betting man I'd say they've got at least one full summer left with us if not longer but you never know. And of course with covid still making a mess all transfers are up in the air at the moment.
Hippos are hard to say because last I heard Petal and Perky are still up for adoption with no takers yet, so there's nothing on that front at the moment but any day now some zoo could decide to take them in. If I were a betting man I'd say they've got at least one full summer left with us if not longer but you never know. And of course with covid still making a mess all transfers are up in the air at the moment.
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RhinoHippoElephantGiraffe
Well-Known Member
I think that Kiran could also be on the move this year. If both Asha and Kiran leave, I don't think Vishnu will stay alone.
Kiran has no SSP transfer recommendation for the time being. If he is sent out soon though, there’s nothing stopping the zoo from keeping just Vishnu for a few years till the SSP finds a new suitable match for him. GOHR are a solitary species and Im almost 100% certain Kiran and Vishnu have never lived together.
@TZFan Musk Ox might not be common in zoos but there is at least one Musk Ox farm I assume it would come down to cost red tape issues. There's also there Yukon Wildlife Preserve and Zoo Sauvage.
Honestly I was surprised when the Caribou showed up still not exactly sure where they came from other than Dryden.
I would also love to see African/Somali Wild Ass I believe Parc Safari or Granby has some.
Honestly I was surprised when the Caribou showed up still not exactly sure where they came from other than Dryden.
I would also love to see African/Somali Wild Ass I believe Parc Safari or Granby has some.
@kingoffreaks, there's a musk ox farm?! How cool is that? If the zoo can buy watusi then please buy us some musk ox. They don't even have to breed to make me happy. Ok what do they farm them for? Fur?
I thought the caribou herd came from Quebec but I could honestly be confusing them with other species the zoo has received from Quebec facilities. Zoo has done so many swaps with them in the last few years its hard to keep straight.
I'm not sure Parc Safari has Wild Ass, they do have onager though. I do love their collection because they have a number of things that just aren't common in Canada. Benefit of being a privately run zoo I suppose. Granby doesnt have wild asses to the best of my knowledge.
I thought the caribou herd came from Quebec but I could honestly be confusing them with other species the zoo has received from Quebec facilities. Zoo has done so many swaps with them in the last few years its hard to keep straight.
I'm not sure Parc Safari has Wild Ass, they do have onager though. I do love their collection because they have a number of things that just aren't common in Canada. Benefit of being a privately run zoo I suppose. Granby doesnt have wild asses to the best of my knowledge.
The Quebec zoos have been building a strong relationship with Toronto lately better for canada, hopefully assiniboine and Calgary can contribute more soon. I do have hope that the Canadian facilities will be more powerful in the zoo world within the next 20 years, But for a while it's really just been Toronto contributing to the Zoo world and lately Calgary has taken a hand in the Zoo world as well, so if Granby and a few other facilities can help that would be great when representing Canada.
@Akula, you are vastly under estimating the work the other Canadian AZA zoos have done and the work smaller Canadian zoos have been doing as well just outside of the AZA, especially with native species. Toronto might be the biggest zoo in the country but it is hardly the only one contributing to the zoo world. But that's a conversation for another thread.
Jefferson
Well-Known Member
My wishes are quite simple.. don't take away my rhinos!! Or Puzzle!
What I would really like to see if a continuation of the quality of life upgrades that have been made. Bringing the zoos facilities up to a modern, high quality standard, like the bathroom renovations we have seen is very important on the overall impression the zoo makes on guests. On that note I would love to see some slight improvements in the pathing, particularly around where Australasia and Eurasia meet up. There are just a few weird things going on around the kangaroo walk through, where you have to walk through picnic tables to get to Eurasia, and then walking through the little asphalt path with the black fence to the entrance via discovery zone. I know these are small things, but they always strike me as quite odd, compared the remaining parts of the zoo with its wide paths.
Now to the fun stuff, by area.
I would like to see the Indomalaysian area spruced up and please don't take the rhinos! I would love to see a hoof stock species added here for diversity sake. I love @animalman0341 suggestions of the Lowland Anoa and Malayan Tapir. I think if you had these with the current roster it would be pretty great. I am sad to see the clouded leopards go, but I get that the border puts a really hinderance on breeding them so I guess I can accept this for the greater good of the species. The current exhibit that has ringtails in the summer and peacocks in the winter feels really out of place, I would rather see a geographically appropriate animal here. I think they have plans in the works already to spruce up the Sumatran tiger exhibits, and while I would love to see more "careless exhibits" I think we are a long way off from there.
I think with the outdoor orangutang exhibit is really going to draw the crowds to that side of the zoo.. I would love to see a renovation of their indoor exhibit to look a little more natural. I love the steel bamboo they use in the gorilla exhibit and would like to see that kind of look with the orangutangs. I hope they keep gibbons and babirusa together as the dynamic is fantastic and from a visitor perspective so exciting.
Now to the savannah, I actually really like the plans that have already been mentioned. I actually love previously planned idea of repurposing the hippo exhibit to make a rotating exhibit for the Pygmy Hippo, Red River Hog and Warthog. Firstly would be great to see the pygymies outside, second I think from an enrichment point of view rotating exhibits are brilliant. I would love to see an upgrade to the outdoor gorillas that is similar to the orangutang. I think we would then have a world class gorilla exhibit inside and out. Additionally a proper outdoor Lemur exhibit build onto the Pavilion would be great and I would never say no to a second lemur species. I think a great opportunity for teaching biodiversity and about the threat to their limited habitat.
Would love to get more giraffes and have a true herd and would love to see them use both portions of the enclosure. I think the amalgamated savannah is an absolute must. Too many times do you not see enough animals there for what is suppose to feel like a safari if you will. I think an additional species or two to that, such as a gazelle would be great. I think moving the elands to the safari and taking over that area for the lions would make sense, perhaps as a way to get tawnies back in while waiting for to phase out the white lions. Or. as a rotating exhibit for the lions and hyenas.
I also think if the carcaral is coming, that it needs a better exhibit that the old porcupine exhibit. I would love to see something like the carcaral and Mongoose exhibit at Oregon Zoo. I would love an elevated viewing for the cheetahs, the topography of the exhibit actually makes it hard to see them quite often. A second cheetah display exhibit would be cool as well especially with a lure line (think Columbus zoo's watering hole exhibit)
Now to the America's. I think the temple ruins could be expanded with a second jaguar enclosure to allow for breeding, merging the capybara (plus getting a few friends for Diego) and the flamingos would be quite dynamic. I think the addition of a tropical South American species or two between the pavilion and the temple ruins would be quite nice, like the Giant Anteater or a tapir species here could be great. Now make it a mixed exhibit and throw in some rheas and I would be over the moon.
Now I could get on board with taking the more cold North American species out of the pavilion and moving them to a new Canadian Wilderness section in the current drive through. I don't think they were too off with the idea in the previous masterplan. It is clear that the Canadian Domain needs to be closed, and I would rather them use the money in the main part of the zoo then sprucing up down there. I think keeping as a breeding/off exhibit herds makes more sense. So moving the species up to the drive through makes the most sense. The idea of the grizzly and beaver area is quite nice. I think the Bison need to be shown off, given the zoo success with AI breeding.
Move the Przewalski's horse and what are left of the yaks over and then make the drive through area accessible by foot.
I think this would accomplish the idea of making a hearty, animal filled area to go visit in the winter.
As for Eurasia I think the addition of the Marcher and Takin would be incredible, add in a Amur leopard and the area would really shine. I think the area behind the Amur tigers across from the red pandas is a prime location. The Magnetic Hill Zoo in Moncton has an area with both the Amur tiger and Leopard and I think it is great to see the two together representing an important, at risk biome.
I agree that tundra trek needs some love, basically the empty exhibits need to be filled up. Honestly would love to see arctic foxes and the snowy owls back, both very beautiful species. I would love if they could coerce the reindeer down to the view area a bit more. Wouldn't say no to the above mentioned muskox. Or mix them together!
As for Australasia I think the outdoor Komodo exhibit would be great for a breeding pair, grow the kangaroo mob. The addition of the koala is the only way I will accept Puzzles impending departure (I know this is wishful thinking).
Anywho a lot of dreams, maybe some realistic and some not. I think my main wishes though are fewer phase outs, continued upgrades of current enclosures, and filling in gaps between enclosures.
To sum up the big ticket items on my wish list:
- Grow the indomalaysian area (new hoof stock species)
- Amalgamate the savannah and add a species or two
- Move Canadian domain to Eurasia drive through (big ticket exhibit of grizzly bear, cougar) and show off the bison
- Fill in the area between mayan temple and pavilion with a mixed exhibit.
- Innovative rotating and mixed species exhibits.
What I would really like to see if a continuation of the quality of life upgrades that have been made. Bringing the zoos facilities up to a modern, high quality standard, like the bathroom renovations we have seen is very important on the overall impression the zoo makes on guests. On that note I would love to see some slight improvements in the pathing, particularly around where Australasia and Eurasia meet up. There are just a few weird things going on around the kangaroo walk through, where you have to walk through picnic tables to get to Eurasia, and then walking through the little asphalt path with the black fence to the entrance via discovery zone. I know these are small things, but they always strike me as quite odd, compared the remaining parts of the zoo with its wide paths.
Now to the fun stuff, by area.
I would like to see the Indomalaysian area spruced up and please don't take the rhinos! I would love to see a hoof stock species added here for diversity sake. I love @animalman0341 suggestions of the Lowland Anoa and Malayan Tapir. I think if you had these with the current roster it would be pretty great. I am sad to see the clouded leopards go, but I get that the border puts a really hinderance on breeding them so I guess I can accept this for the greater good of the species. The current exhibit that has ringtails in the summer and peacocks in the winter feels really out of place, I would rather see a geographically appropriate animal here. I think they have plans in the works already to spruce up the Sumatran tiger exhibits, and while I would love to see more "careless exhibits" I think we are a long way off from there.
I think with the outdoor orangutang exhibit is really going to draw the crowds to that side of the zoo.. I would love to see a renovation of their indoor exhibit to look a little more natural. I love the steel bamboo they use in the gorilla exhibit and would like to see that kind of look with the orangutangs. I hope they keep gibbons and babirusa together as the dynamic is fantastic and from a visitor perspective so exciting.
Now to the savannah, I actually really like the plans that have already been mentioned. I actually love previously planned idea of repurposing the hippo exhibit to make a rotating exhibit for the Pygmy Hippo, Red River Hog and Warthog. Firstly would be great to see the pygymies outside, second I think from an enrichment point of view rotating exhibits are brilliant. I would love to see an upgrade to the outdoor gorillas that is similar to the orangutang. I think we would then have a world class gorilla exhibit inside and out. Additionally a proper outdoor Lemur exhibit build onto the Pavilion would be great and I would never say no to a second lemur species. I think a great opportunity for teaching biodiversity and about the threat to their limited habitat.
Would love to get more giraffes and have a true herd and would love to see them use both portions of the enclosure. I think the amalgamated savannah is an absolute must. Too many times do you not see enough animals there for what is suppose to feel like a safari if you will. I think an additional species or two to that, such as a gazelle would be great. I think moving the elands to the safari and taking over that area for the lions would make sense, perhaps as a way to get tawnies back in while waiting for to phase out the white lions. Or. as a rotating exhibit for the lions and hyenas.
I also think if the carcaral is coming, that it needs a better exhibit that the old porcupine exhibit. I would love to see something like the carcaral and Mongoose exhibit at Oregon Zoo. I would love an elevated viewing for the cheetahs, the topography of the exhibit actually makes it hard to see them quite often. A second cheetah display exhibit would be cool as well especially with a lure line (think Columbus zoo's watering hole exhibit)
Now to the America's. I think the temple ruins could be expanded with a second jaguar enclosure to allow for breeding, merging the capybara (plus getting a few friends for Diego) and the flamingos would be quite dynamic. I think the addition of a tropical South American species or two between the pavilion and the temple ruins would be quite nice, like the Giant Anteater or a tapir species here could be great. Now make it a mixed exhibit and throw in some rheas and I would be over the moon.
Now I could get on board with taking the more cold North American species out of the pavilion and moving them to a new Canadian Wilderness section in the current drive through. I don't think they were too off with the idea in the previous masterplan. It is clear that the Canadian Domain needs to be closed, and I would rather them use the money in the main part of the zoo then sprucing up down there. I think keeping as a breeding/off exhibit herds makes more sense. So moving the species up to the drive through makes the most sense. The idea of the grizzly and beaver area is quite nice. I think the Bison need to be shown off, given the zoo success with AI breeding.
Move the Przewalski's horse and what are left of the yaks over and then make the drive through area accessible by foot.
I think this would accomplish the idea of making a hearty, animal filled area to go visit in the winter.
As for Eurasia I think the addition of the Marcher and Takin would be incredible, add in a Amur leopard and the area would really shine. I think the area behind the Amur tigers across from the red pandas is a prime location. The Magnetic Hill Zoo in Moncton has an area with both the Amur tiger and Leopard and I think it is great to see the two together representing an important, at risk biome.
I agree that tundra trek needs some love, basically the empty exhibits need to be filled up. Honestly would love to see arctic foxes and the snowy owls back, both very beautiful species. I would love if they could coerce the reindeer down to the view area a bit more. Wouldn't say no to the above mentioned muskox. Or mix them together!
As for Australasia I think the outdoor Komodo exhibit would be great for a breeding pair, grow the kangaroo mob. The addition of the koala is the only way I will accept Puzzles impending departure (I know this is wishful thinking).
Anywho a lot of dreams, maybe some realistic and some not. I think my main wishes though are fewer phase outs, continued upgrades of current enclosures, and filling in gaps between enclosures.
To sum up the big ticket items on my wish list:
- Grow the indomalaysian area (new hoof stock species)
- Amalgamate the savannah and add a species or two
- Move Canadian domain to Eurasia drive through (big ticket exhibit of grizzly bear, cougar) and show off the bison
- Fill in the area between mayan temple and pavilion with a mixed exhibit.
- Innovative rotating and mixed species exhibits.
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Yeah the farm them for wool essentially musk ox are closer to sheep than cows, big ice age sheep.
The only asterix is that the farm is in Alaska.
@TZFan Ohh I may have been confusing Onager with Wild Ass still another wild equine species would be great. Also there was a sign in front of the Caribou for a while that said they were from Dryden.
The only asterix is that the farm is in Alaska.
@TZFan Ohh I may have been confusing Onager with Wild Ass still another wild equine species would be great. Also there was a sign in front of the Caribou for a while that said they were from Dryden.