Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Master Plan 2022
- Thread starter TZFan
- Start date
Lol, I hadn't thought of it that way. I was just thinking along the lines of taking something ugly and smelly and gross and turning it into something less basic and really nice looking. Nice is the standard I would be happy with. Going beyond that will just make me thrilled.
It's time everyone. The 2020 Master Plan is officially available for viewing. I've only skimmed through most of it, but there's mentions of everything everyone wanted to know about. Who's going to replace the Indian Rhinos? What about the monorail? What will happen to the Domain? Are we getting mixed species exhibits? All the answer await in this multi page document.
Enjoy and bring your discussions back here.
Agenda Item History - 2022.ZB20.2
Enjoy and bring your discussions back here.
Agenda Item History - 2022.ZB20.2
hyena142
Well-Known Member
Oh thank god it's here now, I was worried it was gonna come later in the month when I was gonna be busy with other stuff lol. Here's my initial thoughts after one quick read-through.
sorry for the text dump lol
Hey they actually addressed our thoughts on wanting more immersive environments! I really like the concept they have for the watusis, that works beautifully for them. Not sure how I feel about the big bird nest in the middle of the Discovery Zone though, I appreciate the idea behind it but I'm not crazy about a massive mound of sticks floating in the air. Maybe it'll look better in execution. Love that "make the fences disappear" is a key strategy, they really seem to be embracing the idea that the zoo itself is already in a fully natural environment and making the Rogue and the zoo environments blend together. Love it.
Big yes to using technology to improve the zoo, this is an idea I've had in my head for years and I was always surprise that the attendance bump they got from the Pokémon Go craze in 2016 didn't get them going on this sooner. A dedicated zoo app will be a great way to introduce visitors to the zoo's conservation message as well as help them get to know the animals by name, allowing them to build stronger connections to them.
Extremely happy to see that the core areas of the zoo are staying the way they are. The old Master Plan went a bit crazy at renaming literally everything (remember Rhino Ridge and Pridelands?) so I'm glad to see that I won't have to relearn what everything is called lol.
Entrance plaza is lookin' good! Shame to hear that river otters are locked in for the exhibit instead of the sea otters we wanted though. Oh well, we can't have everything. The hotel seems cool too, if I was a tourist visiting Toronto I'd love a hotel room that overlooks a tiger exhibit. Definitely would be a great way to generate a bit of extra cash. They definitely seem to understand the zoo needs a big opening/closing moment to kick off or end a visit. Being able to see the orangs swinging around right when you come in, WHAAAAT? That's awesome!!
Glad to see Indo is still gonna be Indo, that was the area I was most concerned was gonna be rethemed. I'm sure there's gonna be some grumbling about the rhinos turning into a new exhibit for the tigers but honestly? I'm kinda okay with it. I wanted sloth bears but I kinda figured that was a long shot. A new state-of-the-art tiger exhibit is much better than Revenge of the Gaur like I feared it would be, and it does seem to tie into Dolf's overall plan of plussing the species we have rather than constantly bringing in new stuff. The Sumatrans have been at a standstill for years so maybe this is what it'll take to restart breeding. I guess that the current exhibit is gonna become a nighttime holding or a place to put bachelor tigers then? I'm excited to see what they do with the concept. Looks like the babirusa will be staying where they are, cool to see they might get an expansion too. Very happy to see the zoo is doing so much for the orangs nowadays, can't wait to see what they do with the indoor exhibit. It says they might be redoing the tahr as well? Why? They're getting phased out. My guess is the markhor are still planned and since that was to become the bachelor holding they'll need to give 'em an upgrade.
Wow, I wasn't expecting so much coming to Africa. The alternate pathways and tunnels behind the cheetahs seems like a fun way to make it so you don't have to backtrack from the ostriches and wildebeest every time you wanna see them. Speaking of them, I'm glad the idea of mixing them is still alive. Not only that but it looks like they're going really ambitious with the Safari Meander, I love the idea of a giant mixed exhibit that doesn't have to worry about the rhinos! More gazelles and antelopes in there, please. Is that a hyena expansion I see? Dolf don't play with my heart like this. Cool to see the cheetahs and baboons might get expansions too. The baboons are especially weird since they're being phased out. Still no word on replacing them but this makes me feel like it's gonna be a similar species. Incoming Hamadryas, geladas or mandrills. Instead of replacing the outdoor gorilla exhibit they seem to just be adding a second one? Not what I was expecting but okay. Gorilland is the worst name of all time, sorry not sorry. Call it Gorilla Mountain or something to tie it in with Gorilla Rainforest. Looks like a great way to redo the Rainforest. Not sure how we'll cram all the stuff in there into this redo but I'm sure they'll figure it out. They really seem to love this animals in tubes idea. I like that this new exhibit will mark a new beginning for the troop as we approach the end of the Charles era. A tower overlooking the kudu and rhinos sounds fun but it's not something I need. Took me a sec to figure out what the Savanna pavilion was supposed to be, looks about what I expected. I like going on the roof to get a good view of the whole area, fun idea. Out of everything this seems to be in the earliest stages of planning so I'm not putting too much stock in any of this yet but still, good stuff.
LOL at the aggressively red "least preferred areas for guests" Domain, I mean it makes perfect sense considering the Domain's signature colour has always been red. But who cares about any of that WOO THE DOMAIN IS GOING AWAY!!! WILDERNESS NORTH BABYYYYYY!!! I'm not gonna get too excited as I've been teased with this and been let down too often before but like I've been saying, now is the time to do it. And of course, they're taking over the drive-thru as suspected. Such a perfect spot for them, and this'll give the Canadian animals the area they've always deserved in the premier Canadian zoo. The moose are making the move! Awesome, I was starting to worry they were done for. Why are we wasting space on a caribou exhibit, they already have more than enough room. Not seeing grizzlies there, definitely would be disappointed if we lost them. Might be a sacrifice we end up having to make to give the bison the room they need but that'd really hurt. I really wish they told you what all the icons meant rather than just the "iconic species" because I see some new ones there and I can't tell what they're supposed to be. Otters and beavers?
Also lol bison yurts, I guess this is the replacement for Raven Roost.
Eurasia seems to be staying mostly the same, not too surprising. Love the idea of indoor red panda viewing, seeing them in the summer can be painful. Good to hear the Amur upgrade is coming up. No sign of markhor or takins. Cool that they're thinking about putting something new with the camels, that's a lot of empty space that could use some new faces. It said somewhere early in the document that they wanted to do something with the Dr. Schofield Gardens and I know that I'd love that.
Welp I guess Australasia isn't getting anything lol. RIP koalas. It was a longshot anyways.
So Tundra and Americas are just gonna be "and this is how the magic happens!"-type area to tie into the Health Centre? Not sure I'm a fan of that, reeks of them feeling like even they don't know what to do with those areas. RIP Tropical Americas. The big empty space between the Pavilion and the Temple still just being a picnic area is a huge bummer, what an absolute waste of potential. Jaguar expansion yes please, give me cubs. I like that they're adding more paths to the temple to make it more accessible. Jaguars in tubes sounds hilarious, I just hope that they find a way to make it work with the theming. So wait, we're rebuilding the Americas Pavilion just to put the same animals back in there? ...Why? If Americas loses the otters and beavers to the Wilderness they're gonna be without a headliner, the monkeys and gators can't carry the whole pavilion! Tundra looks just as depressing as ever, apparently now we're gonna have a second caribou exhibit in Wilderness North so they'll only have three unique animals if the fox and owl exhibits stay empty. RIP walruses.
The monorail lives! The track kinda looks like it goes all over the place though lol, a lot of it is in the Rouge Valley or in the Domain. Sure the Rouge is gorgeous but I'm here to see animals. Will be nice to have it back of course. I love the idea of a gondola as well!
Exotic rescue sanctuary on unused land, thank you. That's a perfect solution. Looks like the wisent exhibit I think? I think this'll be a fun way to get some new species temporarily in the zoo that we might not have gotten otherwise while at the same time promoting a great message.
According to the timeline at the end we've got stuff like the Amur expansion, indoor red pandas, updated entrance and turning the Indian rhinos into the tigers in the near future, with big stuff like the Savanna Meander, Americas redo and Wilderness North much further in the future. Baby steps I guess.
I'm sure I missed some stuff but all in all I'm impressed. This does seem very much in line with Dolf's vision for the zoo, that being more improving on what we have instead of just bringing in a ton of new stuff and hoping that fixes our problems. I do wish we'd gotten a bit more info on individual species but I understand that might be a bit small-scale for this. Hope we get a new Animal Plan soonish to shed some light on that. Some very nice concept art, I love seeing this new vision for the zoo. I think they could've gone bigger on a lot of things (Tundra makes me cry, Americas is getting a lot and yet it doesn't feel like it'll improve anything, and I can't believe Australasia got completely shafted) but when I look at the big picture there's some very exciting stuff here. Here's hoping this is the one that becomes reality and we're not reading Master Plan 3 in another decade.
sorry for the text dump lol
Hey they actually addressed our thoughts on wanting more immersive environments! I really like the concept they have for the watusis, that works beautifully for them. Not sure how I feel about the big bird nest in the middle of the Discovery Zone though, I appreciate the idea behind it but I'm not crazy about a massive mound of sticks floating in the air. Maybe it'll look better in execution. Love that "make the fences disappear" is a key strategy, they really seem to be embracing the idea that the zoo itself is already in a fully natural environment and making the Rogue and the zoo environments blend together. Love it.
Big yes to using technology to improve the zoo, this is an idea I've had in my head for years and I was always surprise that the attendance bump they got from the Pokémon Go craze in 2016 didn't get them going on this sooner. A dedicated zoo app will be a great way to introduce visitors to the zoo's conservation message as well as help them get to know the animals by name, allowing them to build stronger connections to them.
Extremely happy to see that the core areas of the zoo are staying the way they are. The old Master Plan went a bit crazy at renaming literally everything (remember Rhino Ridge and Pridelands?) so I'm glad to see that I won't have to relearn what everything is called lol.
Entrance plaza is lookin' good! Shame to hear that river otters are locked in for the exhibit instead of the sea otters we wanted though. Oh well, we can't have everything. The hotel seems cool too, if I was a tourist visiting Toronto I'd love a hotel room that overlooks a tiger exhibit. Definitely would be a great way to generate a bit of extra cash. They definitely seem to understand the zoo needs a big opening/closing moment to kick off or end a visit. Being able to see the orangs swinging around right when you come in, WHAAAAT? That's awesome!!
Glad to see Indo is still gonna be Indo, that was the area I was most concerned was gonna be rethemed. I'm sure there's gonna be some grumbling about the rhinos turning into a new exhibit for the tigers but honestly? I'm kinda okay with it. I wanted sloth bears but I kinda figured that was a long shot. A new state-of-the-art tiger exhibit is much better than Revenge of the Gaur like I feared it would be, and it does seem to tie into Dolf's overall plan of plussing the species we have rather than constantly bringing in new stuff. The Sumatrans have been at a standstill for years so maybe this is what it'll take to restart breeding. I guess that the current exhibit is gonna become a nighttime holding or a place to put bachelor tigers then? I'm excited to see what they do with the concept. Looks like the babirusa will be staying where they are, cool to see they might get an expansion too. Very happy to see the zoo is doing so much for the orangs nowadays, can't wait to see what they do with the indoor exhibit. It says they might be redoing the tahr as well? Why? They're getting phased out. My guess is the markhor are still planned and since that was to become the bachelor holding they'll need to give 'em an upgrade.
Wow, I wasn't expecting so much coming to Africa. The alternate pathways and tunnels behind the cheetahs seems like a fun way to make it so you don't have to backtrack from the ostriches and wildebeest every time you wanna see them. Speaking of them, I'm glad the idea of mixing them is still alive. Not only that but it looks like they're going really ambitious with the Safari Meander, I love the idea of a giant mixed exhibit that doesn't have to worry about the rhinos! More gazelles and antelopes in there, please. Is that a hyena expansion I see? Dolf don't play with my heart like this. Cool to see the cheetahs and baboons might get expansions too. The baboons are especially weird since they're being phased out. Still no word on replacing them but this makes me feel like it's gonna be a similar species. Incoming Hamadryas, geladas or mandrills. Instead of replacing the outdoor gorilla exhibit they seem to just be adding a second one? Not what I was expecting but okay. Gorilland is the worst name of all time, sorry not sorry. Call it Gorilla Mountain or something to tie it in with Gorilla Rainforest. Looks like a great way to redo the Rainforest. Not sure how we'll cram all the stuff in there into this redo but I'm sure they'll figure it out. They really seem to love this animals in tubes idea. I like that this new exhibit will mark a new beginning for the troop as we approach the end of the Charles era. A tower overlooking the kudu and rhinos sounds fun but it's not something I need. Took me a sec to figure out what the Savanna pavilion was supposed to be, looks about what I expected. I like going on the roof to get a good view of the whole area, fun idea. Out of everything this seems to be in the earliest stages of planning so I'm not putting too much stock in any of this yet but still, good stuff.
LOL at the aggressively red "least preferred areas for guests" Domain, I mean it makes perfect sense considering the Domain's signature colour has always been red. But who cares about any of that WOO THE DOMAIN IS GOING AWAY!!! WILDERNESS NORTH BABYYYYYY!!! I'm not gonna get too excited as I've been teased with this and been let down too often before but like I've been saying, now is the time to do it. And of course, they're taking over the drive-thru as suspected. Such a perfect spot for them, and this'll give the Canadian animals the area they've always deserved in the premier Canadian zoo. The moose are making the move! Awesome, I was starting to worry they were done for. Why are we wasting space on a caribou exhibit, they already have more than enough room. Not seeing grizzlies there, definitely would be disappointed if we lost them. Might be a sacrifice we end up having to make to give the bison the room they need but that'd really hurt. I really wish they told you what all the icons meant rather than just the "iconic species" because I see some new ones there and I can't tell what they're supposed to be. Otters and beavers?
Also lol bison yurts, I guess this is the replacement for Raven Roost.
Eurasia seems to be staying mostly the same, not too surprising. Love the idea of indoor red panda viewing, seeing them in the summer can be painful. Good to hear the Amur upgrade is coming up. No sign of markhor or takins. Cool that they're thinking about putting something new with the camels, that's a lot of empty space that could use some new faces. It said somewhere early in the document that they wanted to do something with the Dr. Schofield Gardens and I know that I'd love that.
Welp I guess Australasia isn't getting anything lol. RIP koalas. It was a longshot anyways.
So Tundra and Americas are just gonna be "and this is how the magic happens!"-type area to tie into the Health Centre? Not sure I'm a fan of that, reeks of them feeling like even they don't know what to do with those areas. RIP Tropical Americas. The big empty space between the Pavilion and the Temple still just being a picnic area is a huge bummer, what an absolute waste of potential. Jaguar expansion yes please, give me cubs. I like that they're adding more paths to the temple to make it more accessible. Jaguars in tubes sounds hilarious, I just hope that they find a way to make it work with the theming. So wait, we're rebuilding the Americas Pavilion just to put the same animals back in there? ...Why? If Americas loses the otters and beavers to the Wilderness they're gonna be without a headliner, the monkeys and gators can't carry the whole pavilion! Tundra looks just as depressing as ever, apparently now we're gonna have a second caribou exhibit in Wilderness North so they'll only have three unique animals if the fox and owl exhibits stay empty. RIP walruses.
The monorail lives! The track kinda looks like it goes all over the place though lol, a lot of it is in the Rouge Valley or in the Domain. Sure the Rouge is gorgeous but I'm here to see animals. Will be nice to have it back of course. I love the idea of a gondola as well!
Exotic rescue sanctuary on unused land, thank you. That's a perfect solution. Looks like the wisent exhibit I think? I think this'll be a fun way to get some new species temporarily in the zoo that we might not have gotten otherwise while at the same time promoting a great message.
According to the timeline at the end we've got stuff like the Amur expansion, indoor red pandas, updated entrance and turning the Indian rhinos into the tigers in the near future, with big stuff like the Savanna Meander, Americas redo and Wilderness North much further in the future. Baby steps I guess.
I'm sure I missed some stuff but all in all I'm impressed. This does seem very much in line with Dolf's vision for the zoo, that being more improving on what we have instead of just bringing in a ton of new stuff and hoping that fixes our problems. I do wish we'd gotten a bit more info on individual species but I understand that might be a bit small-scale for this. Hope we get a new Animal Plan soonish to shed some light on that. Some very nice concept art, I love seeing this new vision for the zoo. I think they could've gone bigger on a lot of things (Tundra makes me cry, Americas is getting a lot and yet it doesn't feel like it'll improve anything, and I can't believe Australasia got completely shafted) but when I look at the big picture there's some very exciting stuff here. Here's hoping this is the one that becomes reality and we're not reading Master Plan 3 in another decade.
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Oh… wow… @cypher Did not expect this today!
First thoughts (verbal vomit):
Entrance
Love this so much! I’ll take the River otters if it means a hotel with views into an improved Tiger habitat and a maglev station! Wow wow wow this could become one of the best zoo entrances in the world! And to top it all off there will be an O-line so that the apes can greet zoo guests! This is perfection.
Indo-Malaya
I am so in love with the idea of giving the tigers multiple large habitats, connecting walkways and and an incredible looking indoor exhibit and house! It is a little sad to think that the area will have previously contained more than a dozen species, but I think this will be valuable space to contribute to the Sumatran Tiger SSP. I’m all in on expanded and improved spaces for current animals. Looks like the Tahr will only stay until they die off, and then the exhibit will get converted into another Tiger exhibit. Sadly I think the same thing will occur with the Babirusa. But they also might find a home near the pavilion. Will be interesting to see if they stick around long term.
The new indoor orangutan exhibit should be great! And holy is the idea of having another space for them above the brewery genius. Just the brewery was genius, but then to be able to sit and watch the apes and possibly tigers… sign me the hell up!
I’m a little confused if the current Tiger habitats will remain or not. Would be an incredible amount of added space if they kept them.
African Rainforest
Addition of a second gorilla exhibit is pretty cool! Hopefully there will be some touch ups to the current exhibit. I also love the tunnels around the pavilion, it just creates so much extra stimulation. The concept images for the pavilion interior are stunning, and I really think they’ll make an already great pavilion excellent.
African Savanna
Two mega savannas!!! Yes!! That means we could get a giraffe mix, a zebra/rhino/kudu mix, a diverse Antelope paddock, and potentially something replacing or adding to the watusis! I love it. The added space for baboons (which species?!) and cheetahs is amazing and finally makes use of the old Savanna space. I think I see a rotational area for Lion and hyenas with an expanded holding, and we are truly going to get the Savanna pavilion, and the concept images with the rhino and zebra look incredible. Looks something like Zurich Zoos new Savanna house. The Penguin area will become quite the hub!
The browse farm doesn’t excite me too much, but it’s a great way for the zoo to practice what they preach. Good move.
Americas
A new pavilion!! Or at least extensively renovated! I think the idea is to have it as more of a mixed and immersive experience. Just happy they’re not leaving this place to rot.
The jaguar area is going to be fabulous! Not quite what I expected, but the cats will love it!
Tundra
Probably the biggest let down. So we really need multiple caribou exhibits? No more Bear Centre? Bye bye Grizzlies. Probably the toughest hit of this reveal. Hopefully it’ll be made up for with a variety of African species. Kinda sad.
Admin Area
I’m excited for the nutrition Centre/green house combo. That’ll make for a nice eating space. I like to the location of the rescued species Centre, and even though I’d rather the space go to other animals, I think people really wanted it and the zoo would be providing a great service. I’ll lump the daycare into here, and I love that kids will have daily access to goats, chickens, and a view into another unspecified exhibit.
Australasia
Nothing to exciting here! The refurbished aviary and the indoor kangaroo walkthrough will probably be the big adds.
Eurasia
Interesting to see what goat species they go with. Love the camel/p horse merger!!! And I love the Amur expansion. Can’t tell if the snow leopards will also get an expansion.
Canadian Wilderness
Ooooo, the addition of exhibits for smaller animals along the River! I really like that! Lots of space for the bison, but I hope it’s not only bison, or a double up of caribou. Nice to see the moose hanging around, and the cougars getting two new exhibits!
Lots more to discuss, but overall I’m totally cool with this vision. It’ll make us at least a contender for best cold weather Zoo once it’s complete, and I’ll take that over the current state of things! I’ll sleep well tonight.
First thoughts (verbal vomit):
Entrance
Love this so much! I’ll take the River otters if it means a hotel with views into an improved Tiger habitat and a maglev station! Wow wow wow this could become one of the best zoo entrances in the world! And to top it all off there will be an O-line so that the apes can greet zoo guests! This is perfection.
Indo-Malaya
I am so in love with the idea of giving the tigers multiple large habitats, connecting walkways and and an incredible looking indoor exhibit and house! It is a little sad to think that the area will have previously contained more than a dozen species, but I think this will be valuable space to contribute to the Sumatran Tiger SSP. I’m all in on expanded and improved spaces for current animals. Looks like the Tahr will only stay until they die off, and then the exhibit will get converted into another Tiger exhibit. Sadly I think the same thing will occur with the Babirusa. But they also might find a home near the pavilion. Will be interesting to see if they stick around long term.
The new indoor orangutan exhibit should be great! And holy is the idea of having another space for them above the brewery genius. Just the brewery was genius, but then to be able to sit and watch the apes and possibly tigers… sign me the hell up!
I’m a little confused if the current Tiger habitats will remain or not. Would be an incredible amount of added space if they kept them.
African Rainforest
Addition of a second gorilla exhibit is pretty cool! Hopefully there will be some touch ups to the current exhibit. I also love the tunnels around the pavilion, it just creates so much extra stimulation. The concept images for the pavilion interior are stunning, and I really think they’ll make an already great pavilion excellent.
African Savanna
Two mega savannas!!! Yes!! That means we could get a giraffe mix, a zebra/rhino/kudu mix, a diverse Antelope paddock, and potentially something replacing or adding to the watusis! I love it. The added space for baboons (which species?!) and cheetahs is amazing and finally makes use of the old Savanna space. I think I see a rotational area for Lion and hyenas with an expanded holding, and we are truly going to get the Savanna pavilion, and the concept images with the rhino and zebra look incredible. Looks something like Zurich Zoos new Savanna house. The Penguin area will become quite the hub!
The browse farm doesn’t excite me too much, but it’s a great way for the zoo to practice what they preach. Good move.
Americas
A new pavilion!! Or at least extensively renovated! I think the idea is to have it as more of a mixed and immersive experience. Just happy they’re not leaving this place to rot.
The jaguar area is going to be fabulous! Not quite what I expected, but the cats will love it!
Tundra
Probably the biggest let down. So we really need multiple caribou exhibits? No more Bear Centre? Bye bye Grizzlies. Probably the toughest hit of this reveal. Hopefully it’ll be made up for with a variety of African species. Kinda sad.
Admin Area
I’m excited for the nutrition Centre/green house combo. That’ll make for a nice eating space. I like to the location of the rescued species Centre, and even though I’d rather the space go to other animals, I think people really wanted it and the zoo would be providing a great service. I’ll lump the daycare into here, and I love that kids will have daily access to goats, chickens, and a view into another unspecified exhibit.
Australasia
Nothing to exciting here! The refurbished aviary and the indoor kangaroo walkthrough will probably be the big adds.
Eurasia
Interesting to see what goat species they go with. Love the camel/p horse merger!!! And I love the Amur expansion. Can’t tell if the snow leopards will also get an expansion.
Canadian Wilderness
Ooooo, the addition of exhibits for smaller animals along the River! I really like that! Lots of space for the bison, but I hope it’s not only bison, or a double up of caribou. Nice to see the moose hanging around, and the cougars getting two new exhibits!
Lots more to discuss, but overall I’m totally cool with this vision. It’ll make us at least a contender for best cold weather Zoo once it’s complete, and I’ll take that over the current state of things! I’ll sleep well tonight.
Ok I am going to do my review as I am reading it. Pre apologizing if I miss something or misunderstand something. Just gonna be my raw review as I read through.
It is really neat to look at whats going into their decision making process. All the maps with the various elements they are considering and issues they are facing is fascinating. Way to take us into the whole thing. Before seeing what they are gonna do I am excited. Could I officially be happy before even seeing any plans? I think so!
I like the idea that they want to make it more immersive and yet still have areas of high activity and points of interest.
Oooohhh they want to do something with VR and AR. Interested!
Holy cow! The entry is getting a hotel? No way! The orangs are also gonna get to swing past to the entry area... AMAZING!!!
Never guessed they would replace the Indian rhinos with the Sumatran tigers. Not sure how I feel about that. No I would rather lose the tigers than then rhinos but I get space is an issue for them. I will begrudgingly accept it if the tiger habitat is cool. That and I have no choice in which we keep so I might as well like what I get.
The savanna looks like its largely unchanged other then blending habitats and adding new viewing. Savanna pavilion is gone? Maybe I didnt get something. I will be honest the map there wasnt as helpful as the other ones, for me.
Score the zoo listened to me! I have long said the best solution to not seeing the P Horse in the drive thru would be a raised boardwalk and they are doing that when it goes to Wilderness North. I know they really didnt listen to me but glad they are doing something I long thought would be a huge improvement. Huh they are moving the caribou. Please mean I get muskox in Tundra Trek. Are we phasing out grizzlies? I dont see them.
I like that if they have to do the rescue center they are using the old wisent area. Would I prefer more Canadian animals? Yes. But I'll take them over by the health center.
Cool the daycare looks like its going into the old dromedary camel space. Thats a good use of the space.
Nice the red pandas are getting indoor viewing for AC in the summer. Good choice. A bigger Amur habitat is nice too.
Hey there is a proposed gondala. That would be cool.
Doesnt look like anything is happening to Tundra Trek or the Americas. Meh I will take the Jaguar expansion. Looks like we are loosing the capybara too... possibly?
Oh thank god there is more details further in here. I thought the initial maps were all we were getting. Ok this looks better.
The savanna is getting a pavilion ok. Just has roof top viewing which seems cool. The concept art is impressive. I will be thrilled to see it for the first time.
Wow they are gonna swing the penguin pool into the pavilion for indoor viewing of them!!! Amazing! Never thought of going that way with the penguins but then again until the other day I never envisioned them changing the penguin pool at all.
I never thought of putting the gorilla exhibit in back of the pavilion but there is a fair bit of space there to build an exhibit.
Ok the jags are gonna be cool with the tunnel out over us. Like it. Little sad the temple itself is toast and clearly no capybara and probably no macaws. That is disappointing. I want more South American animals not less. Though the exhibit seems very interesting.
Looks like the rainforest is getting a total revamp. Shocking since its one of the better areas of the zoo but Ill take it.
The Americas is getting an upgrade. Ok.
The monorail still exists! Still not 100% sold its coming but good to know they are still hopeful.
Im shocked it says the Woods will be renovated and a brewery added. Im confused because erosion was such a big concern and its been confirmed several times its toast. And the orangs will get an exhibit above the brewery. Weird but Ill take it.
It is really neat to look at whats going into their decision making process. All the maps with the various elements they are considering and issues they are facing is fascinating. Way to take us into the whole thing. Before seeing what they are gonna do I am excited. Could I officially be happy before even seeing any plans? I think so!
I like the idea that they want to make it more immersive and yet still have areas of high activity and points of interest.
Oooohhh they want to do something with VR and AR. Interested!
Holy cow! The entry is getting a hotel? No way! The orangs are also gonna get to swing past to the entry area... AMAZING!!!
Never guessed they would replace the Indian rhinos with the Sumatran tigers. Not sure how I feel about that. No I would rather lose the tigers than then rhinos but I get space is an issue for them. I will begrudgingly accept it if the tiger habitat is cool. That and I have no choice in which we keep so I might as well like what I get.
The savanna looks like its largely unchanged other then blending habitats and adding new viewing. Savanna pavilion is gone? Maybe I didnt get something. I will be honest the map there wasnt as helpful as the other ones, for me.
Score the zoo listened to me! I have long said the best solution to not seeing the P Horse in the drive thru would be a raised boardwalk and they are doing that when it goes to Wilderness North. I know they really didnt listen to me but glad they are doing something I long thought would be a huge improvement. Huh they are moving the caribou. Please mean I get muskox in Tundra Trek. Are we phasing out grizzlies? I dont see them.
I like that if they have to do the rescue center they are using the old wisent area. Would I prefer more Canadian animals? Yes. But I'll take them over by the health center.
Cool the daycare looks like its going into the old dromedary camel space. Thats a good use of the space.
Nice the red pandas are getting indoor viewing for AC in the summer. Good choice. A bigger Amur habitat is nice too.
Hey there is a proposed gondala. That would be cool.
Doesnt look like anything is happening to Tundra Trek or the Americas. Meh I will take the Jaguar expansion. Looks like we are loosing the capybara too... possibly?
Oh thank god there is more details further in here. I thought the initial maps were all we were getting. Ok this looks better.
The savanna is getting a pavilion ok. Just has roof top viewing which seems cool. The concept art is impressive. I will be thrilled to see it for the first time.
Wow they are gonna swing the penguin pool into the pavilion for indoor viewing of them!!! Amazing! Never thought of going that way with the penguins but then again until the other day I never envisioned them changing the penguin pool at all.
I never thought of putting the gorilla exhibit in back of the pavilion but there is a fair bit of space there to build an exhibit.
Ok the jags are gonna be cool with the tunnel out over us. Like it. Little sad the temple itself is toast and clearly no capybara and probably no macaws. That is disappointing. I want more South American animals not less. Though the exhibit seems very interesting.
Looks like the rainforest is getting a total revamp. Shocking since its one of the better areas of the zoo but Ill take it.
The Americas is getting an upgrade. Ok.
The monorail still exists! Still not 100% sold its coming but good to know they are still hopeful.
Im shocked it says the Woods will be renovated and a brewery added. Im confused because erosion was such a big concern and its been confirmed several times its toast. And the orangs will get an exhibit above the brewery. Weird but Ill take it.
Ok new day and a chance to sleep on things. Sorry my review was written by a very sleepy person and I didnt expand on any thoughts I had. Ok to be fair I didnt have many deep thoughts. It was a struggle to pay attention last night.
All of us can probably agree if more immersion was the dominating feature they had on offer we would probably be fairly happy. How many times to we all complain about the fences, hotwires, ugly buildings, concrete, ect. A move to more hidden barriers is long over due.
100% agree with you @hyena142, the hotel could be awesome. I really thought the zoo would let the opportunity pass. They don't always jump at chances like that. Glad to see they did and they didnt just go for it they took it to the next level with what I hope will be amazing views of the tigers, orangs and otters. As someone who lives far away from the zoo a nice, well priced hotel with cool views and other facilities there I might be inclined to do night trips and get 2 days in instead of one super rushed one. I have long thought the zoo needed its own hotel and this could be just the ticket to push out of towner visits.
The redevelopment of the Indian rhinos for the tigers is probably a long way off (yes I know there was a chart kinda showing when things might happen but by the time I got there I was more asleep then awake). I don't think though they would expand the tiger habitat nowish to do the work almost immediately on the conversion. It gives me hope that the rhinos will be sticking around a good while longer. Maybe we will get a replacement for Asha if we are keeping the rhinos for another 15-20 years. Further back in the plan we go the less likely they will actually get there in 20 years. Im ok if that is a long way off. I want Vishnu as long as possible. Plus the longer they wait the more likely it is they might rethink who goes in the rhino space. I think the ideas some of us had to bring back malayan tapirs, mix the babirusa and maybe move over the gibbons could really have worked. I would rather a larger mixed habitat.
I agree with you @hyena142 the tahr expansion is nuts. Dont. Just dont. There is no point. Save the money for literally any other plan. They wont be around much longer. It looks like the space will go tiger anyway and its not on a main path so if it sits empty or holds mouflon or tur until they die thats fine. I know I hold on tight to the dream that the tur will finally be allowed to die out so we could get markhor or takin.
Gotta say I got excited when I saw them mention that the Schofield Gardens was under used but then I saw nothing happening to it so was in turn super disappointed. Not to knock the man who its dedicated to but a Korean community group offered to fund the whole thing and it was supposed to be so much more than it is. They fell through on their end and its sat unloved for way too long. Move the statue somewhere else and use that land. Takin? I know stop being hopeful.
The savanna expansions are a good thing. I have long said that big field west of the ostriches should be used. I always saw it as a potential home for the hippos but I will take a huge mixed species exhibit! Better be a mix of more then wildebeest and ostriches though. Weird they want to expand the baboon exhibit. They didnt say what would go in there. I want to keep secretly hoping for wild dogs. I think it will be hamadryas baboons. Maybe when they do the cheetah expansion they will give us a real lure chase. I didnt think I saw a hyena expansion @hyena142 but if I missed it that would be great.
Absolutely agree Gorillaland is stupid. Since they are lowland gorillas maybe Gorilla Valley. Heck we could all come up with better names. Please reconsider the name when designing zoo. It is weird that they are just adding a second exhibit. But maybe they are considering rejigging animals and someone else will go outside there. The zoo certainly doesnt need 2 outdoor exhibits, 1 indoor exhibit and the dayroom. They will only ever be able to house 2 groups. I like the gorilla tunnels.
Wilderness North dont like that name either. I liked Canadian Wilderness better. We certianly dont need 2 caribou exhibits. We dont even have a breeding herd. Lets not waste the space. That space would be better used for GRIZZLIES!!! I would also accept the answer of black bears. Or throw a mountain in there and give me mountain goats or bighorn. Its gonna be a wasted space when I can see caribou in Tundra Trek and you arent even doing anything of value in Tundra Trek.
@hyena142 dont count the koalas out just yet. I know Im the doom and gloom person in the group with them but if you look through the whole thing they were careful not to give much indication of new species. Anything is possible because they made sure not to give anything like that way.
Overall Im fairly content. I mean the last one had me fuming with rage. I might not care for elements of this plan but nothing has me seething with rage. If everything is done to the level they envision I might not be happy with the choice but I can like the results minus whatever they took away from me (Rhinos).
Really surprised they didnt focus at all on the hippo exhibit. I mean if you are currently seeking homes what you need to do is more immediate. What are your plans for the exhibit? It would be a huge hole in an area of the savanna without anything else to look at for a very long stretch. You cant just leave it empty. They did mention a reno to the hippo house. Whats going on there Dolf? Also with Tundra Trek hey what are you putting in the empty exhibits? They should be filled sooner rather than later. There are still lots of questions. Maybe more will be answered once the board meeting happens.
All of us can probably agree if more immersion was the dominating feature they had on offer we would probably be fairly happy. How many times to we all complain about the fences, hotwires, ugly buildings, concrete, ect. A move to more hidden barriers is long over due.
100% agree with you @hyena142, the hotel could be awesome. I really thought the zoo would let the opportunity pass. They don't always jump at chances like that. Glad to see they did and they didnt just go for it they took it to the next level with what I hope will be amazing views of the tigers, orangs and otters. As someone who lives far away from the zoo a nice, well priced hotel with cool views and other facilities there I might be inclined to do night trips and get 2 days in instead of one super rushed one. I have long thought the zoo needed its own hotel and this could be just the ticket to push out of towner visits.
The redevelopment of the Indian rhinos for the tigers is probably a long way off (yes I know there was a chart kinda showing when things might happen but by the time I got there I was more asleep then awake). I don't think though they would expand the tiger habitat nowish to do the work almost immediately on the conversion. It gives me hope that the rhinos will be sticking around a good while longer. Maybe we will get a replacement for Asha if we are keeping the rhinos for another 15-20 years. Further back in the plan we go the less likely they will actually get there in 20 years. Im ok if that is a long way off. I want Vishnu as long as possible. Plus the longer they wait the more likely it is they might rethink who goes in the rhino space. I think the ideas some of us had to bring back malayan tapirs, mix the babirusa and maybe move over the gibbons could really have worked. I would rather a larger mixed habitat.
I agree with you @hyena142 the tahr expansion is nuts. Dont. Just dont. There is no point. Save the money for literally any other plan. They wont be around much longer. It looks like the space will go tiger anyway and its not on a main path so if it sits empty or holds mouflon or tur until they die thats fine. I know I hold on tight to the dream that the tur will finally be allowed to die out so we could get markhor or takin.
Gotta say I got excited when I saw them mention that the Schofield Gardens was under used but then I saw nothing happening to it so was in turn super disappointed. Not to knock the man who its dedicated to but a Korean community group offered to fund the whole thing and it was supposed to be so much more than it is. They fell through on their end and its sat unloved for way too long. Move the statue somewhere else and use that land. Takin? I know stop being hopeful.
The savanna expansions are a good thing. I have long said that big field west of the ostriches should be used. I always saw it as a potential home for the hippos but I will take a huge mixed species exhibit! Better be a mix of more then wildebeest and ostriches though. Weird they want to expand the baboon exhibit. They didnt say what would go in there. I want to keep secretly hoping for wild dogs. I think it will be hamadryas baboons. Maybe when they do the cheetah expansion they will give us a real lure chase. I didnt think I saw a hyena expansion @hyena142 but if I missed it that would be great.
Absolutely agree Gorillaland is stupid. Since they are lowland gorillas maybe Gorilla Valley. Heck we could all come up with better names. Please reconsider the name when designing zoo. It is weird that they are just adding a second exhibit. But maybe they are considering rejigging animals and someone else will go outside there. The zoo certainly doesnt need 2 outdoor exhibits, 1 indoor exhibit and the dayroom. They will only ever be able to house 2 groups. I like the gorilla tunnels.
Wilderness North dont like that name either. I liked Canadian Wilderness better. We certianly dont need 2 caribou exhibits. We dont even have a breeding herd. Lets not waste the space. That space would be better used for GRIZZLIES!!! I would also accept the answer of black bears. Or throw a mountain in there and give me mountain goats or bighorn. Its gonna be a wasted space when I can see caribou in Tundra Trek and you arent even doing anything of value in Tundra Trek.
@hyena142 dont count the koalas out just yet. I know Im the doom and gloom person in the group with them but if you look through the whole thing they were careful not to give much indication of new species. Anything is possible because they made sure not to give anything like that way.
Overall Im fairly content. I mean the last one had me fuming with rage. I might not care for elements of this plan but nothing has me seething with rage. If everything is done to the level they envision I might not be happy with the choice but I can like the results minus whatever they took away from me (Rhinos).
Really surprised they didnt focus at all on the hippo exhibit. I mean if you are currently seeking homes what you need to do is more immediate. What are your plans for the exhibit? It would be a huge hole in an area of the savanna without anything else to look at for a very long stretch. You cant just leave it empty. They did mention a reno to the hippo house. Whats going on there Dolf? Also with Tundra Trek hey what are you putting in the empty exhibits? They should be filled sooner rather than later. There are still lots of questions. Maybe more will be answered once the board meeting happens.
Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
So knowing that no Master Plan is ever completely realized... in fact usually only a few of the near term projects are built and they never resemble what was shown in the Plan ... what do you all think of the phasing?
(We are talking about a plan estimated at over CAD322,000,000 !)
(We are talking about a plan estimated at over CAD322,000,000 !)
Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
It is also interesting to note the consultants chosen to help develop and write the plan. What is their experience with zoos?
Still buzzing this morning! So here are a few more thoughts. Please still be kind as these are initial thoughts 
I have questions about the following mammal species:
- Baboon (??) - which species comes in?
- Capybara - can they live with the flamingoes?
- Grizzly Bear - SAD
- North Sulawesi Babirusa - are they staying?
- Raccoon - WHY???
- Straw-Colored Fruit Bat - are they staying?
- White-Handed Gibbon - are they staying?
I’m assuming that even though the zoo will be reducing the number of total species, they’ll still need to add a few more individuals or species (hopefully endangered) to fill in some of the larger spaces and gaps.
I’m wondering if the otter looking icon in the Canadian wilderness near the day care, Eagle, beaver and raccoon is a black-footed ferret exhibit? Could we maybe see some marmots on display here? I thought the Eagles were only going to be for outreach! Nice to know they might be sticking around. You can’t really have a Canadian wilderness without bald Eagles.
Such a shame about the Grizzlies! I wonder if we’ll hear the reasoning behind it. But I’d imagine the Polar Bears will get some upgrades and they’ll really focus on giving them the most space. What confuses me is the double or even triple up of the caribou exhibits? I’m hoping they share a little more during the meeting, though I won’t get my hopes up. The actual animal plan seems to be a lower priority during those meetings. Obviously funding and feasibility take priority in the minds of the board members.
I thought the hippo barn was to be demolished?! Now it’s getting repurposed. Maybe extra housing for a larger group of Pygmy hippos or hogs?
Will the meerkats return??
I have questions about the following mammal species:
- Baboon (??) - which species comes in?
- Capybara - can they live with the flamingoes?
- Grizzly Bear - SAD
- North Sulawesi Babirusa - are they staying?
- Raccoon - WHY???
- Straw-Colored Fruit Bat - are they staying?
- White-Handed Gibbon - are they staying?
I’m assuming that even though the zoo will be reducing the number of total species, they’ll still need to add a few more individuals or species (hopefully endangered) to fill in some of the larger spaces and gaps.
I’m wondering if the otter looking icon in the Canadian wilderness near the day care, Eagle, beaver and raccoon is a black-footed ferret exhibit? Could we maybe see some marmots on display here? I thought the Eagles were only going to be for outreach! Nice to know they might be sticking around. You can’t really have a Canadian wilderness without bald Eagles.
Such a shame about the Grizzlies! I wonder if we’ll hear the reasoning behind it. But I’d imagine the Polar Bears will get some upgrades and they’ll really focus on giving them the most space. What confuses me is the double or even triple up of the caribou exhibits? I’m hoping they share a little more during the meeting, though I won’t get my hopes up. The actual animal plan seems to be a lower priority during those meetings. Obviously funding and feasibility take priority in the minds of the board members.
I thought the hippo barn was to be demolished?! Now it’s getting repurposed. Maybe extra housing for a larger group of Pygmy hippos or hogs?
Will the meerkats return??
hyena142
Well-Known Member
After sleeping on it I think what makes me happiest about this Master Plan is that it feels like it was written by people who actually respect the TZ as it is today rather than people who just wanted to change everything as an experiment to see if that boosts visitor numbers. Everything here is new while at the same time still feeling distinctly TZ, and I love that.
@TZFan the more I think about it the more I absolutely love the hotel idea, there's just no downside to it. Seeing orangs swinging past your window sounds like the best thing ever.
I feel like you're right, we'll still have the rhinos for a long time. I doubt Asha will get replaced, more likely than not we'll have a bachelor duo of Vishnu and Kiran. They both still have long lives ahead of them, especially Kiran, so it's not like we're waiting on an impending die off. I think they'll leave whenever the zoo is ready to start the tiger project, whenever that'll be.
I'm convinced the tahr plan is just to set it up for either a bachelor markhor takeover as detailed in the Animal Plan or to eventually expand the tigers into it. No way they suddenly decided to keep them, aren't we like one of the last zoos in Canada to still have the species?
At least now we know that they agree that something needs to be done with Dr. S's garden. I wouldn't be surprised if they just finished the project themselves.
It's gonna be Hamadryas baboons, I'm convinced of it. Literally anything else would be better but oh well. That said I was convinced the Indian rhino exhibit was gonna go to gaur so maybe don't listen to me on this stuff lol. It definitely would be a waste to build a huge mixed exhibit and just do wildebeest and ostriches, and I think the zoo'll be smart enough to avoid that. They can put spare male giraffes, kudus, etc. there, also maybe the zebra bachelor group if that's still around by that point. Hoping for more gazelles and antelope! Hyena expansion is unconfirmed but on the Africa map they have a "possible exhibit expansion" title hovering near the exhibit. Maybe it's just my wishful thinking
Completely agree that the pointless second caribou exhibit absolutely should go to the grizzlies, potentially losing them feels almost like a monkey's paw situation. Yes the Domain animals are finally free but you have to sacrifice the grizzlies to get there lol. I have a hunch they'll have changed their minds on this one by the time we get there.
I definitely did notice that new species weren't really detailed here, if at all. I guess that's more of an Animal Plan scene while the Master Plan is more for the big picture stuff. As I said above no way they make a massive new Savanna mixed exhibit and only use it on 3 ostriches and 3 wildebeest. Something new will come. Still doubtful about koalas but you're right, the dream isn't completely dead!
@animalman0341 I'd put money on the babirusas staying, looks like there's potential plans to give them a bit of an expansion when the tigers get theirs, and worst case scenario the tigers need to take their space we know they work with the gibbons now, we can move 'em in there permanently.
The gibbons will probably be refreshed when Holly passes, there's enough of them in Canadian zoos that I'm sure someone has a few they can lend us.
I've got a feeling that the pygmy hippos might take over the river hippo exhibit permanently, the way Gorilland seems to shake out it looks like it's mostly dedicated to the gorillas and the lemurs, and you can room the hogs, tortoises and birds with the lemurs. Can't put the hippos with them. Not sure how (or if) that's gonna work but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Gorilland as a whole is just kinda confusing to me, I'm not really sure what the approach is. I like the sentiment behind it though.
I've been thinking about the meerkats myself, I'm gonna be optimistic and say yes they'll be back. Mr. P isn't gonna be in that exhibit forever, when he goes it'll be empty and we can start a new mob.
@TZFan the more I think about it the more I absolutely love the hotel idea, there's just no downside to it. Seeing orangs swinging past your window sounds like the best thing ever.
I feel like you're right, we'll still have the rhinos for a long time. I doubt Asha will get replaced, more likely than not we'll have a bachelor duo of Vishnu and Kiran. They both still have long lives ahead of them, especially Kiran, so it's not like we're waiting on an impending die off. I think they'll leave whenever the zoo is ready to start the tiger project, whenever that'll be.
I'm convinced the tahr plan is just to set it up for either a bachelor markhor takeover as detailed in the Animal Plan or to eventually expand the tigers into it. No way they suddenly decided to keep them, aren't we like one of the last zoos in Canada to still have the species?
At least now we know that they agree that something needs to be done with Dr. S's garden. I wouldn't be surprised if they just finished the project themselves.
It's gonna be Hamadryas baboons, I'm convinced of it. Literally anything else would be better but oh well. That said I was convinced the Indian rhino exhibit was gonna go to gaur so maybe don't listen to me on this stuff lol. It definitely would be a waste to build a huge mixed exhibit and just do wildebeest and ostriches, and I think the zoo'll be smart enough to avoid that. They can put spare male giraffes, kudus, etc. there, also maybe the zebra bachelor group if that's still around by that point. Hoping for more gazelles and antelope! Hyena expansion is unconfirmed but on the Africa map they have a "possible exhibit expansion" title hovering near the exhibit. Maybe it's just my wishful thinking
Completely agree that the pointless second caribou exhibit absolutely should go to the grizzlies, potentially losing them feels almost like a monkey's paw situation. Yes the Domain animals are finally free but you have to sacrifice the grizzlies to get there lol. I have a hunch they'll have changed their minds on this one by the time we get there.
I definitely did notice that new species weren't really detailed here, if at all. I guess that's more of an Animal Plan scene while the Master Plan is more for the big picture stuff. As I said above no way they make a massive new Savanna mixed exhibit and only use it on 3 ostriches and 3 wildebeest. Something new will come. Still doubtful about koalas but you're right, the dream isn't completely dead!
@animalman0341 I'd put money on the babirusas staying, looks like there's potential plans to give them a bit of an expansion when the tigers get theirs, and worst case scenario the tigers need to take their space we know they work with the gibbons now, we can move 'em in there permanently.
The gibbons will probably be refreshed when Holly passes, there's enough of them in Canadian zoos that I'm sure someone has a few they can lend us.
I've got a feeling that the pygmy hippos might take over the river hippo exhibit permanently, the way Gorilland seems to shake out it looks like it's mostly dedicated to the gorillas and the lemurs, and you can room the hogs, tortoises and birds with the lemurs. Can't put the hippos with them. Not sure how (or if) that's gonna work but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Gorilland as a whole is just kinda confusing to me, I'm not really sure what the approach is. I like the sentiment behind it though.
I've been thinking about the meerkats myself, I'm gonna be optimistic and say yes they'll be back. Mr. P isn't gonna be in that exhibit forever, when he goes it'll be empty and we can start a new mob.
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Ok, I’ve gone through everything, with the exception of the appendices, as in I read everything. Before I get into my opinion on items presented in this Master Plan, I think a couple things should be noted.
Like most of you, I was hoping for more information on smaller scales, like what species would be added and removed. We see exhibit expansions and inclusion of mixed species exhibit, but little to no information on species involved other then same picture we’re all zooming into to make sense of. But, we should remember that this Master Plan is not the only source of development that the zoo is using. This Master Plan is a guided suggestion of a possibility that the zoo can go in. This Master Plan includes the Technology Master Plan and works in conjunction with it. But it also works in conjunction with the 2020-2025 Strategic Plan, Animal Lives with Purpose Plan, as well as the currently in “Request for Proposal” status Site Wide Interpretive Communications Master Plan. Together these 5 documents build a truer picture of an overall Master Plan.
So, what this means, to me at least, is that if there’s little to no mention of the Lions, or Hyenas, or Makhor, or even the lack of mention for the Australasia Pavilion, then look to the Animal Plan and take that as the plan moving forward. However, if the Master Plan says something that overrides the Animal Plan, such as the Animal Plan’s action to replace the Indian Rhinos with a larger herbivore or mixed species space, than I’d look to the Master Plan as the deciding factor. So Tigerline it is.
Lastly, the Master Plan made sure to mention that all the names for the newly developed spaces is not final by any means. Names for each area will be decided by the zoo and any partners the zoo works with in completing these projects. So, @hyena142 and @TZFan, think of Gorillaland, Wilderness North, and Safari Meander as project names, rather than final names. They could very well be renamed into something much better or far worse.
Ok, now on to the good stuff. What I thought about the Master Plan. Overall, I’m mostly positive to everything. I’m not comparing this to the 2016 Master Plan, because it’s mostly pointless to compare “what could’ve been” to “what’s planned”. So, I’m comparing the current state of the zoo to what’s planned. Once certain projects are started, I’ll then compare those to the overall Master Plan to see what changes were, if any, and why.
Conservation Campus
I love this concept a lot. There’s a ton to go into this over long stretches of time. With Phase 1 being just the Conservation Campus itself and the Otter exhibit, it’s a great improvement. Phase 2 will be years away from Phase 1, but that’s were there’s a lot of potential. I can’t wait to see that take fruition. Love that there’s chance in seeing an Orangutan upon entry.
Indoor Winter Viewing and Holding (Savanna Pavilion)
This looks to be the next big project after the Conservation Campus. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. I love the concepts being proposed, but I’m curious as to how they’ll change the exhibit space indoors to a venue area. Anyone who’s been in certain indoor holdings know that there will be a distinctive odor that’s extremely unpleasant to be around. So how would hosting a venue with the possibility of that odor work?
Jaguar Habitat and Waterfall
Phase 1 of this project is mostly to address AODA issues and include a fun way to expand space for the Jaguars. AODA is what it is. Whatever the zoo has to do to remain compliant for disability access they’ll have to do. Creating an additional path is fine in that respect.
The 360 tubes that are presented in multiple projects throughout this plan is something I’m indifferent to. The visuals for them are minimal, so I’m waiting on a more developed idea on how these can look. They look good now, but once built, well, what if they’re an eyesore? I’m sure the zoo will try preventing that, but it’s still a possibility. So, I’m holding out my opinion on all 360 tubes. Also, there was no mention of the Capybaras, so in consulting the Animal Plan, the idea is that they’re rotate spaces with the Flamingos. Doesn’t look like a mixed space will behere, which I don’t mind. Plus, Flamingo apparently don’t play well with other animals, and are suggested to not mix with other species.
Phase 2 is to be completed years later in this plan, and that holds more interest for me, because the design proposed open viewing, which I’d love to see.
Gorillaland
This was interesting to me, because more focus was placed on the indoor exhibits rather than the outdoor exhibits. I thought we’d see a more in-depth plan for what’s to come for the outdoor Gorilla exhibit. Instead, all we got was the idea of a second outdoor exhibit, with not real plan to it. Also, if I’m to understand this 360 tube system, the Gorilla will have potential access to the entire pavilion? Everything about this plan confuses me, and I’m not entirely sold on it. There was almost no mention of other species in the African Pavilion, so I looked at the Animal Plan as the standard on what will happen to those animals.
Saving Species Sanctuary
I like this mostly because it’s not replacing any previously coveted exhibit space. They’re using unused space to help push the messaging of conservation. No real issues on this.
Wilderness North
Thank you for bringing back walking paths. I love it. Couldn’t be happier with that decision. I like a lot of what they’re doing in this area. Decommissioning the Domain was really the right thing to do. But I’m in agreement with a lot of people, as in, why more Caribou exhibits and what’s happening with the Grizzly Bears. The Animals Plan mentions installing a training wall for the Grizzlies, but it doesn’t really indicate with anything beyond that. I have to assume that was an idea for a new exhibit and not down in the Domain since the plan is to close it down. I’m surprised to see the Cougars get such a large exhibit space, which has me wondering if there are plans of breeding the species.
Nutrition Centre and Restaurant
A nice concept. Not something that interests me all that much, but it’s a great idea for a lot of reasons. Great education opportunities for sure.
Americas Pavilion
This was interesting, because despite the extensive facelift, which looks good, the pavilion looks like it’ll be left in a boring state of affairs. From what I can gather, the Otters and Beavers are leaving the Pavilion. The Primate wing will be expanded on, as well as possibly the Alligator exhibit, and focus brought to the Blanding’s Turtle conservation efforts. But at this point, it looks to be missing that wow factor. This is the last big project, so it’ll be interesting to see what changes arise from now to when it’s ready to start planning.
Safari Meander
I like what they want to do here, but this is the last project on the phasing of the plan. Change overtime can definitely take place from now until then. But I like what I see. A lot of this plan I looked to the Animals Plan, because there was no real mention of Lions, Hyenas, Watusi, or animal selection for other areas. I like the Cheetah move and expansion. I feel like they’re getting this for 2 reasons. The zoo has a successful breeding program it can build upon, and a Cheetah run will be better suited in the new space. Seeing the Baboons get an expansion into the old Cheetah exhibit is very interesting, mainly because the Olive Baboons are being phased out. The Animal Plan doesn’t suggest a specific animal replacement, so there is a small chance we might get something other than Baboons there. Especially they’re also looking into improving on off exhibit holding. Lastly, love the idea of a landscape bridge.
Forage Farm
I don’t have anything to say to the Forage Farm, but I can see why the zoo is doing it.
Daycare
Smart placement and great idea. The key to this is finding a worthy partner to team up with in order to get this completed.
Tigerline
This is very interesting to me. I didn’t expect the Sumatran Tigers to replace the Indian Rhinos, which I think will stick around for another 8-10 years at least. That being said, I like what’s proposed. Slowly building the Tiger exhibit space, while phasing out or relocating other animals is smart. When I see enhancements for the Tahr or the Babirusa exhibits, I don’t think what’s the point. I look at that as, they’re readying that space for the Tigers. Let’s call this area what it is. The end game is to create a breeding facility for Sumatran Tigers. The Animal Plan really indicated this as the direction the zoo wants to move to. I’m curious if once Tigerline is complete, will they continue occupying their old exhibit space, or will that be converted into a holding for other species. Because the long tunnel from the old holding remains by the end of everything. No mention of the old exhibit space though.
Zoo Brewery
This confuses me because I was under the impression that the land wasn’t stable, which is why the Mayan Woods is closed. However, we’re looking to slap a large 2-story Brewery here? The plan makes it sound like the issue with the Malayan Woods is mostly, if not solely the building and not the ground it sits on. Either way, the brewery is an interesting idea for sure. Also love the Orangutan touch down space here.
Other Tidbits
Love the proposed idea of a Gondola. Really smart idea getting around some AODA issues. Also, glad to see the Maglev Monorail is still alive. I like having the Biodigestor on zoo grounds. That can really help cut cost on certain elements. Lastly, I like the suggestions that were made in what to look for in seeking partnerships for projects. Really smart and forward thinking.
Conclusion
I think we should take a lot of this with a grain of salt. This is an ambitious guide, and it’s entirely subject to change. @Zooplantman does bring up a couple interesting points. As they mentioned this is a $322 million plan. However, it’s over a 20-year period, with a lot of focus on partnerships and building a proper fundraising source of income. So, I don’t think it’s entirely impossible to meet project budgets, but it will be a challenge. I’d like to see a lot of this plan implemented, but time will tell.
As for the main consultant on this Master Plan, I don’t think them or any of the other consultants they partnered with have worked on a zoo before. But they have worked on tourist attractions with is the same principle in overall design. Actual exhibit and animal habitat designs will come latter when the projects begin planning phases. So, that’s the point where we will see the most changes made from this Master Plan. When that time comes, we’ll have a better understanding of what to expect. Maybe projects will be scaled back, maybe some will be bolstered. We’ll see.
Like most of you, I was hoping for more information on smaller scales, like what species would be added and removed. We see exhibit expansions and inclusion of mixed species exhibit, but little to no information on species involved other then same picture we’re all zooming into to make sense of. But, we should remember that this Master Plan is not the only source of development that the zoo is using. This Master Plan is a guided suggestion of a possibility that the zoo can go in. This Master Plan includes the Technology Master Plan and works in conjunction with it. But it also works in conjunction with the 2020-2025 Strategic Plan, Animal Lives with Purpose Plan, as well as the currently in “Request for Proposal” status Site Wide Interpretive Communications Master Plan. Together these 5 documents build a truer picture of an overall Master Plan.
So, what this means, to me at least, is that if there’s little to no mention of the Lions, or Hyenas, or Makhor, or even the lack of mention for the Australasia Pavilion, then look to the Animal Plan and take that as the plan moving forward. However, if the Master Plan says something that overrides the Animal Plan, such as the Animal Plan’s action to replace the Indian Rhinos with a larger herbivore or mixed species space, than I’d look to the Master Plan as the deciding factor. So Tigerline it is.
Lastly, the Master Plan made sure to mention that all the names for the newly developed spaces is not final by any means. Names for each area will be decided by the zoo and any partners the zoo works with in completing these projects. So, @hyena142 and @TZFan, think of Gorillaland, Wilderness North, and Safari Meander as project names, rather than final names. They could very well be renamed into something much better or far worse.
Ok, now on to the good stuff. What I thought about the Master Plan. Overall, I’m mostly positive to everything. I’m not comparing this to the 2016 Master Plan, because it’s mostly pointless to compare “what could’ve been” to “what’s planned”. So, I’m comparing the current state of the zoo to what’s planned. Once certain projects are started, I’ll then compare those to the overall Master Plan to see what changes were, if any, and why.
Conservation Campus
I love this concept a lot. There’s a ton to go into this over long stretches of time. With Phase 1 being just the Conservation Campus itself and the Otter exhibit, it’s a great improvement. Phase 2 will be years away from Phase 1, but that’s were there’s a lot of potential. I can’t wait to see that take fruition. Love that there’s chance in seeing an Orangutan upon entry.
Indoor Winter Viewing and Holding (Savanna Pavilion)
This looks to be the next big project after the Conservation Campus. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. I love the concepts being proposed, but I’m curious as to how they’ll change the exhibit space indoors to a venue area. Anyone who’s been in certain indoor holdings know that there will be a distinctive odor that’s extremely unpleasant to be around. So how would hosting a venue with the possibility of that odor work?
Jaguar Habitat and Waterfall
Phase 1 of this project is mostly to address AODA issues and include a fun way to expand space for the Jaguars. AODA is what it is. Whatever the zoo has to do to remain compliant for disability access they’ll have to do. Creating an additional path is fine in that respect.
The 360 tubes that are presented in multiple projects throughout this plan is something I’m indifferent to. The visuals for them are minimal, so I’m waiting on a more developed idea on how these can look. They look good now, but once built, well, what if they’re an eyesore? I’m sure the zoo will try preventing that, but it’s still a possibility. So, I’m holding out my opinion on all 360 tubes. Also, there was no mention of the Capybaras, so in consulting the Animal Plan, the idea is that they’re rotate spaces with the Flamingos. Doesn’t look like a mixed space will behere, which I don’t mind. Plus, Flamingo apparently don’t play well with other animals, and are suggested to not mix with other species.
Phase 2 is to be completed years later in this plan, and that holds more interest for me, because the design proposed open viewing, which I’d love to see.
Gorillaland
This was interesting to me, because more focus was placed on the indoor exhibits rather than the outdoor exhibits. I thought we’d see a more in-depth plan for what’s to come for the outdoor Gorilla exhibit. Instead, all we got was the idea of a second outdoor exhibit, with not real plan to it. Also, if I’m to understand this 360 tube system, the Gorilla will have potential access to the entire pavilion? Everything about this plan confuses me, and I’m not entirely sold on it. There was almost no mention of other species in the African Pavilion, so I looked at the Animal Plan as the standard on what will happen to those animals.
Saving Species Sanctuary
I like this mostly because it’s not replacing any previously coveted exhibit space. They’re using unused space to help push the messaging of conservation. No real issues on this.
Wilderness North
Thank you for bringing back walking paths. I love it. Couldn’t be happier with that decision. I like a lot of what they’re doing in this area. Decommissioning the Domain was really the right thing to do. But I’m in agreement with a lot of people, as in, why more Caribou exhibits and what’s happening with the Grizzly Bears. The Animals Plan mentions installing a training wall for the Grizzlies, but it doesn’t really indicate with anything beyond that. I have to assume that was an idea for a new exhibit and not down in the Domain since the plan is to close it down. I’m surprised to see the Cougars get such a large exhibit space, which has me wondering if there are plans of breeding the species.
Nutrition Centre and Restaurant
A nice concept. Not something that interests me all that much, but it’s a great idea for a lot of reasons. Great education opportunities for sure.
Americas Pavilion
This was interesting, because despite the extensive facelift, which looks good, the pavilion looks like it’ll be left in a boring state of affairs. From what I can gather, the Otters and Beavers are leaving the Pavilion. The Primate wing will be expanded on, as well as possibly the Alligator exhibit, and focus brought to the Blanding’s Turtle conservation efforts. But at this point, it looks to be missing that wow factor. This is the last big project, so it’ll be interesting to see what changes arise from now to when it’s ready to start planning.
Safari Meander
I like what they want to do here, but this is the last project on the phasing of the plan. Change overtime can definitely take place from now until then. But I like what I see. A lot of this plan I looked to the Animals Plan, because there was no real mention of Lions, Hyenas, Watusi, or animal selection for other areas. I like the Cheetah move and expansion. I feel like they’re getting this for 2 reasons. The zoo has a successful breeding program it can build upon, and a Cheetah run will be better suited in the new space. Seeing the Baboons get an expansion into the old Cheetah exhibit is very interesting, mainly because the Olive Baboons are being phased out. The Animal Plan doesn’t suggest a specific animal replacement, so there is a small chance we might get something other than Baboons there. Especially they’re also looking into improving on off exhibit holding. Lastly, love the idea of a landscape bridge.
Forage Farm
I don’t have anything to say to the Forage Farm, but I can see why the zoo is doing it.
Daycare
Smart placement and great idea. The key to this is finding a worthy partner to team up with in order to get this completed.
Tigerline
This is very interesting to me. I didn’t expect the Sumatran Tigers to replace the Indian Rhinos, which I think will stick around for another 8-10 years at least. That being said, I like what’s proposed. Slowly building the Tiger exhibit space, while phasing out or relocating other animals is smart. When I see enhancements for the Tahr or the Babirusa exhibits, I don’t think what’s the point. I look at that as, they’re readying that space for the Tigers. Let’s call this area what it is. The end game is to create a breeding facility for Sumatran Tigers. The Animal Plan really indicated this as the direction the zoo wants to move to. I’m curious if once Tigerline is complete, will they continue occupying their old exhibit space, or will that be converted into a holding for other species. Because the long tunnel from the old holding remains by the end of everything. No mention of the old exhibit space though.
Zoo Brewery
This confuses me because I was under the impression that the land wasn’t stable, which is why the Mayan Woods is closed. However, we’re looking to slap a large 2-story Brewery here? The plan makes it sound like the issue with the Malayan Woods is mostly, if not solely the building and not the ground it sits on. Either way, the brewery is an interesting idea for sure. Also love the Orangutan touch down space here.
Other Tidbits
Love the proposed idea of a Gondola. Really smart idea getting around some AODA issues. Also, glad to see the Maglev Monorail is still alive. I like having the Biodigestor on zoo grounds. That can really help cut cost on certain elements. Lastly, I like the suggestions that were made in what to look for in seeking partnerships for projects. Really smart and forward thinking.
Conclusion
I think we should take a lot of this with a grain of salt. This is an ambitious guide, and it’s entirely subject to change. @Zooplantman does bring up a couple interesting points. As they mentioned this is a $322 million plan. However, it’s over a 20-year period, with a lot of focus on partnerships and building a proper fundraising source of income. So, I don’t think it’s entirely impossible to meet project budgets, but it will be a challenge. I’d like to see a lot of this plan implemented, but time will tell.
As for the main consultant on this Master Plan, I don’t think them or any of the other consultants they partnered with have worked on a zoo before. But they have worked on tourist attractions with is the same principle in overall design. Actual exhibit and animal habitat designs will come latter when the projects begin planning phases. So, that’s the point where we will see the most changes made from this Master Plan. When that time comes, we’ll have a better understanding of what to expect. Maybe projects will be scaled back, maybe some will be bolstered. We’ll see.
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Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
I feel some posters do not understand what a master plan is: detailed exhibit designs or species list are not what master plans do. Those come later... if ever.
If you'd like to better understand this document here is some background to help:
Why Master Plan? — Felis Consulting
ZooLex Developing a Master Plan
If you'd like to better understand this document here is some background to help:
Why Master Plan? — Felis Consulting
ZooLex Developing a Master Plan
@Zooplantman, what's being said that makes you believe people don't understand what a master plan is? Everyone seems to be posting there thoughts on what was presented in a manner that makes me think they know what a master plan is.
Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
well...
I understand that zoo fans want to focus on species and exhibit details but this is a planning roadmap not a guidebook.
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@Zooplantman if you pick out the 1 sentence in my post for the Gorillaland, then yes, I see your point. But my entire comment on Gorillaland paints a better picture. Below is what I said in full about Gorillaland.
The Master Plan provided an in-depth look at the indoor exhibits, so why wouldn't they do the same for the outdoor exhibits. Especially considering there's been a lot of talk about designing a better outdoor Gorilla exhibit. But the Outdoor exhibit isn't mentioned, it's just shown in a diagram. This is down throughout the Master Plan, so I noted it as being odd. Reading my entire post, I think I perfectly explained what to expect from outcomes of the Master Plan and that I understand what it is.
We can't be cherry picking things here and there in peoples posts, and then come to the conclusion that people don't understand what a Master Plan is supposed to convey. We also can't compare one zoo's Master Plan to another zoo's Master Plan. They have their own purposes to convey their own needs. Like I mentioned, a total of 5 different documents for Toronto Zoo look to makeup an overall Master Plan, with each document focusing on a specific area.
The Master Plan provided an in-depth look at the indoor exhibits, so why wouldn't they do the same for the outdoor exhibits. Especially considering there's been a lot of talk about designing a better outdoor Gorilla exhibit. But the Outdoor exhibit isn't mentioned, it's just shown in a diagram. This is down throughout the Master Plan, so I noted it as being odd. Reading my entire post, I think I perfectly explained what to expect from outcomes of the Master Plan and that I understand what it is.
We can't be cherry picking things here and there in peoples posts, and then come to the conclusion that people don't understand what a Master Plan is supposed to convey. We also can't compare one zoo's Master Plan to another zoo's Master Plan. They have their own purposes to convey their own needs. Like I mentioned, a total of 5 different documents for Toronto Zoo look to makeup an overall Master Plan, with each document focusing on a specific area.
@animalman0341, yes why raccoons?! But lets forget that for a moment. The zoo is upping their otters to two pairs so they could in theory have two otter exhibits. Do I think thats a good use of money? No. But that does make an easy part of the plan to drop when you go over budget which they always do. The eagle could be a swap to golden eagles or they might take in new rescued bald eagles. There are choices there. Could even scale down and keep a few species of owl. That exhibit could change as well. I don't think we will see a black footed ferret exhibit of any size as they only retire one ferret for display purposes at a time and they are always elderly. I also don't think they will ever risk a marmot for display if they have chosen to keep old man Hunter who is friendly in the breeding center. Not that I wouldnt love for both species to get cool exhibits and be on display. I just don't see the zoo risking them. The grizzlies is just a pity if they are going because we are talking another huge opening day species. Frankly we are more likely to get replacement grizzlies then we are to get replacement moose. Not sure why we dont just convert the macaque exhibits into a grizzly space. Combined there is tons of land and we know of all of the domain animals grizzlies are probably what pull most guests down there followed closely by cougars. I will help save them money to build it. Watch. Dont build a second otter exhibit. Dont build a coon exhibit. Dont build a second caribou exhibit (stick bison bulls in there if you must). Probably dont waste time on a moose exhibit unless you are 100% positive you can get orphans. Strongly consider if we really need eagles if you are using them for education. I just freed up a lot of capital. Little disappointed there was no exhibit for whooping cranes in there. Feel like they would be a nice addition by the beavers.
The hippo thing confused me too. The animal plan basically said the barn needed such massive repairs that it would likely be cheaper to rip it down and start again then fix it. Plus its always been a pain in the butt for keepers getting the animals to move all that distance to and from the exhibit. Thought it was smarter to knock it down swing the giraffe fencing over that way and build a new barn for whoever goes in hippo exhibit.
@hyena142, agree with your assessment of the whole plan. I like that its written by people who understand the zoo and actually care about making it the best they can. We might not agree with every decision (RHINO cough cough) but we can tell great care and thought was put into it. The intention was to show and foster a love of the zoo. I will cut someone a ton of slack for the things I dont like or get because they clearly have a passion and vision of the best zoo they can create.
I disagree about the rhinos. If they are gonna be around another 10-20 odd years it would be a horrible waste of two incredibly valuable bulls, 3 if we count Nandu. If we bring up a worthy female for Vishnu we could pop out another calf or two before they go for good. Given his age if we dont need to do anything for 15 -20 years Vishnu might be dead. They could send up an older cow too so that she can breed a little and die here. Ok thats morbid but you get my point. However if the zoo is just gonna sit on to very valuable bulls for a decade or more then I would rather they just go and the exhibit sit empty til they do something. Im more into doing what is best for the species as a whole then keeping the animals at the zoo for my own enjoyment.
Guys I am holding out hope that the new savanna pavilion will dedicate a spot for the meerkats so I can stop hating that they are in the rainforest. Not sure they would survive the cut if the rainforest does what it looks like it will. Im so confused on that I dont even wanna try. I will wait til we get there and learn from real plans not lofty ideas.
@cypher you are very correct you need to look across their 5 key docs to see the whole picture. And I think most of us were thinking it would be a little more like the 2016 plan which did mention a lot of changes they wanted to make with more detail. They showed us their terrible Canadian Wilderness plan. Easier to make sense of when you see what they think the will do. This is more vague but I can appreciate that to because it did nothing to get our hopes up about new animals, or a ton of details on projects so that we will be disappointed in lesser or dropped elements. Gives them more wiggle room to do what they have the money for when the time comes.
Lol, the smells for the events space. Very true but gotta say the Indian Rhino house has always smelled to high heaven but that terrible smell actually holds such fond memories for me that despite being gross I actually dont mind it one bit. That odor hits my nose and I get that joyous feeling of being at the zoo. Im probably the only nut that happens to. But if I was planning lets say my own wedding there it wouldnt bother me if it smelled like that. I would get those fond memories and warm fuzzy at the zoo feeling. My guests can suck it. Its my wedding and I cant help that rhino stank makes me happy. Again Im insane yes.
When it comes to Wilderness North as of last March the zoo was very much undecided on what to do with the Domain. They show drawings of a concept they had and boy it was nothing like what we are getting. Back in March the plan was to possibly split the domain. Everything down there was to stay down there. A portion of the bisons were to be brought up to the old snow leopard area and be plopped in there with beavers and otters and a public viewing space be made on the outer edge of the zoo. Those plans were dumb and confusing, glad they are in the trash pile. That said the animal plan predated the Master Plan so there are definitely some changes. The grizzly training wall was to go in the current grizzly habitat not a future one. Though not gonna lie if they keep the grizzlies I want to see that training wall in their new home.
Just because the cougars are getting a big exhibit don't for one second think that the zoo will breed them. Yes there is an SSP but it is purely for management and tracking purposes. All cougars in the SSP are not to breed so that when there is free space it can be taken up by orphans and not captive born cubs. If the zoos cant take orphan cougars they would likely be put down. Each spot is precious because it can mean a life saved.
I bet with the Americas facelift there will be big changes to it. I think its just far enough down the path they arent gonna spend a lot of time on it now because their vision could change by the time they get there. The Americas always gets the short end of the stick in planning. Those big domes the wanna build and the stadium seating out in the old otter and beaver exhibits tells me they plan on doing some big retrofitting inside. Its the what and the how I am not sure of. Only time will tell.
The brewery/orang exhibit/woods is confusing for sure. There is a map in there that shows the woods sits on a spot that is definitely eroding. Im not unhappy with the plan. Just confused why they would build more weight on a eroding hillside. Seems like a questionable decision when they could potentially just shift over to where the lemurs summer home is and use whatever of that space is suitable on more stable ground. Im sure they have done their homework. The conflicting info does lead to confusion.
I totally agree there is no way on the face of this earth they are going to complete I would guess at least 25% of these projects. The zoo is poor and relies too heavily on the city which hates it usually. This team is ambitious so Im sure they are well into the research and work they need to do to begin funding projects. But I'd like to point again to the orang project which they have struggled hard to raise $12 million for. And we all know the zoo always runs way behind schedule on every single project (my standard is add at least a year probably 2). The master plan is nice and all. Like the ambition and drive but no way are we gonna get through a good chunk of projects in 20 years. Its why I have such high hopes of keeping my rhinos around a good long while. Though if they can get through all the projects in 20 years I will happily eat my words.
@Zooplantman, it is a little unfair to say we don't know what a master plan is and what they are supposed to be and do. I think many of us are well aware. Its a vision and visions are nice but they are not the plan that the zoo is definitely going with when they start a project. Its snap shots of what could be and many factors will change things. As @cypher said we are all just reacting to what we are seeing and this master plan is very different in style from the last one. That last one was actually pretty detailed in comparison which is fine, just a different way of doing one. The contrast between the two is pretty darn big. It threw me off at first. Not bad just different.
The whole point of this thread though was for us all to share our hopes and dreams for the master plan and then when it came out to have fun discussing what we see and sharing our thoughts. We can all have different perspectives on it and thats ok.
The hippo thing confused me too. The animal plan basically said the barn needed such massive repairs that it would likely be cheaper to rip it down and start again then fix it. Plus its always been a pain in the butt for keepers getting the animals to move all that distance to and from the exhibit. Thought it was smarter to knock it down swing the giraffe fencing over that way and build a new barn for whoever goes in hippo exhibit.
@hyena142, agree with your assessment of the whole plan. I like that its written by people who understand the zoo and actually care about making it the best they can. We might not agree with every decision (RHINO cough cough) but we can tell great care and thought was put into it. The intention was to show and foster a love of the zoo. I will cut someone a ton of slack for the things I dont like or get because they clearly have a passion and vision of the best zoo they can create.
I disagree about the rhinos. If they are gonna be around another 10-20 odd years it would be a horrible waste of two incredibly valuable bulls, 3 if we count Nandu. If we bring up a worthy female for Vishnu we could pop out another calf or two before they go for good. Given his age if we dont need to do anything for 15 -20 years Vishnu might be dead. They could send up an older cow too so that she can breed a little and die here. Ok thats morbid but you get my point. However if the zoo is just gonna sit on to very valuable bulls for a decade or more then I would rather they just go and the exhibit sit empty til they do something. Im more into doing what is best for the species as a whole then keeping the animals at the zoo for my own enjoyment.
Guys I am holding out hope that the new savanna pavilion will dedicate a spot for the meerkats so I can stop hating that they are in the rainforest. Not sure they would survive the cut if the rainforest does what it looks like it will. Im so confused on that I dont even wanna try. I will wait til we get there and learn from real plans not lofty ideas.
@cypher you are very correct you need to look across their 5 key docs to see the whole picture. And I think most of us were thinking it would be a little more like the 2016 plan which did mention a lot of changes they wanted to make with more detail. They showed us their terrible Canadian Wilderness plan. Easier to make sense of when you see what they think the will do. This is more vague but I can appreciate that to because it did nothing to get our hopes up about new animals, or a ton of details on projects so that we will be disappointed in lesser or dropped elements. Gives them more wiggle room to do what they have the money for when the time comes.
Lol, the smells for the events space. Very true but gotta say the Indian Rhino house has always smelled to high heaven but that terrible smell actually holds such fond memories for me that despite being gross I actually dont mind it one bit. That odor hits my nose and I get that joyous feeling of being at the zoo. Im probably the only nut that happens to. But if I was planning lets say my own wedding there it wouldnt bother me if it smelled like that. I would get those fond memories and warm fuzzy at the zoo feeling. My guests can suck it. Its my wedding and I cant help that rhino stank makes me happy. Again Im insane yes.
When it comes to Wilderness North as of last March the zoo was very much undecided on what to do with the Domain. They show drawings of a concept they had and boy it was nothing like what we are getting. Back in March the plan was to possibly split the domain. Everything down there was to stay down there. A portion of the bisons were to be brought up to the old snow leopard area and be plopped in there with beavers and otters and a public viewing space be made on the outer edge of the zoo. Those plans were dumb and confusing, glad they are in the trash pile. That said the animal plan predated the Master Plan so there are definitely some changes. The grizzly training wall was to go in the current grizzly habitat not a future one. Though not gonna lie if they keep the grizzlies I want to see that training wall in their new home.
Just because the cougars are getting a big exhibit don't for one second think that the zoo will breed them. Yes there is an SSP but it is purely for management and tracking purposes. All cougars in the SSP are not to breed so that when there is free space it can be taken up by orphans and not captive born cubs. If the zoos cant take orphan cougars they would likely be put down. Each spot is precious because it can mean a life saved.
I bet with the Americas facelift there will be big changes to it. I think its just far enough down the path they arent gonna spend a lot of time on it now because their vision could change by the time they get there. The Americas always gets the short end of the stick in planning. Those big domes the wanna build and the stadium seating out in the old otter and beaver exhibits tells me they plan on doing some big retrofitting inside. Its the what and the how I am not sure of. Only time will tell.
The brewery/orang exhibit/woods is confusing for sure. There is a map in there that shows the woods sits on a spot that is definitely eroding. Im not unhappy with the plan. Just confused why they would build more weight on a eroding hillside. Seems like a questionable decision when they could potentially just shift over to where the lemurs summer home is and use whatever of that space is suitable on more stable ground. Im sure they have done their homework. The conflicting info does lead to confusion.
I totally agree there is no way on the face of this earth they are going to complete I would guess at least 25% of these projects. The zoo is poor and relies too heavily on the city which hates it usually. This team is ambitious so Im sure they are well into the research and work they need to do to begin funding projects. But I'd like to point again to the orang project which they have struggled hard to raise $12 million for. And we all know the zoo always runs way behind schedule on every single project (my standard is add at least a year probably 2). The master plan is nice and all. Like the ambition and drive but no way are we gonna get through a good chunk of projects in 20 years. Its why I have such high hopes of keeping my rhinos around a good long while. Though if they can get through all the projects in 20 years I will happily eat my words.
@Zooplantman, it is a little unfair to say we don't know what a master plan is and what they are supposed to be and do. I think many of us are well aware. Its a vision and visions are nice but they are not the plan that the zoo is definitely going with when they start a project. Its snap shots of what could be and many factors will change things. As @cypher said we are all just reacting to what we are seeing and this master plan is very different in style from the last one. That last one was actually pretty detailed in comparison which is fine, just a different way of doing one. The contrast between the two is pretty darn big. It threw me off at first. Not bad just different.
The whole point of this thread though was for us all to share our hopes and dreams for the master plan and then when it came out to have fun discussing what we see and sharing our thoughts. We can all have different perspectives on it and thats ok.
Well said @TZFan. This thread was created in order to bring discussion about the Master Plan. I don't think anyone expected detailed explanation on every animals at the zoo, but having a broad idea of a guide to where the zoo might go in the future. From that we can discuss what we liked and what we didn't, and yes, some of that might include the lack of mention of certain animals. Because the plan does mention animals one wouldn't expect to see mentioned in a Master Plan, like the Blanding's Turtles becoming a showcase in the Americas pavilion.
Think about it, they mention Blanding's Turtles, but they didn't mention Lions, arguable the most iconic animal in the world. Those kind of things surprise you on first glance.
I like seeing people initial reactions and ideas from going through this plan. It sparks new ideas and new ways of thinking about different concepts. It's fun and the entire point of this thread.
Think about it, they mention Blanding's Turtles, but they didn't mention Lions, arguable the most iconic animal in the world. Those kind of things surprise you on first glance.
I like seeing people initial reactions and ideas from going through this plan. It sparks new ideas and new ways of thinking about different concepts. It's fun and the entire point of this thread.