Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Master Plan 2022

Non-drinker here so I have no real opinion on the brewery other than that it's odd to me that they're gonna use the Malayan Woods since, as others have said, the main reason the Woods are closing is because the ground it's on is unstable. Maybe they've figured out a way to fix it?

More fast travel methods through the zoo is always welcome, especially since the zoomo is sticking around. The gondola gives me San Diego vibes and I love that. The maglev right now I have mixed feelings on. I love that the monorail is coming back but looking at the map given it looks like they're gonna be reusing the old track, and that means a good chunk of the trip is down in the Rouge/Domain, which we now know is likely not gonna be around forever. I wonder if the maglev is how they get around the Domain accessibility problem for the time being and then when it closes they reroute the track.
 
Also a non-drinker here, so the brewery doesn't excite me like it might excite others, but I like the idea of having something like this in order to create revenue. It's smart, especially since there's a need of people wanting alcoholic drinks at the zoo.

For the Maglev,I don't mind that it's using the old monorail track to go down into the Domain and into the Rouge Valley. It's a great opportunity for the zoo to education people about the Rouge Valley. If the Domain closes and they just drive on through that area without stopping, It'd be ok with me.
 
I am another non drinker so the brewery doesnt appeal to me that way. However something that the brewery might bring to the table is better dining options. Not saying super fancy but maybe some pub style food or just apps but hopefully some nicer food then what we are currently fed at the zoo. They wanted some upscale dining when they asked our opinion. The hotel likely would feature the nice restaurant but the brewery could offer something between that and the Compass Groups subpar food. If they do offer some good food that would be worth a visit to me. Also I am intrigued how they would integrate the orangs. I wont partake in the alcohol but I would probably venture in at least once even if food isnt offered just to see what seems like a unique idea. They also said the Woods would be renovated. Maybe the old master plan was just too cheap to do the work to save the Woods from erosion and they are willing to put the money in to stabilize the hill. Different team with different motives. It is perplexing based on what we have been told in the past though.

The gondola seems neat. I quite honestly don't think we need the monorail at all if we invest in the gondola. People arent gonna be able to afford to pay for all three modes of transportation. The zoomo drives through at least one exhibit right now and might do more when the get to the savanna. The gondola will offer hopefully cool views of the exhibits too. If the monorail comes back it really doesnt have a lot of advantages. It wont pass directly by a lot of exhibits. It wont get us down to the domain because the domain is on the move. It will get us impressive views of the Rouge but you could just route the gondola to visit it for a few minutes or offer walking tours using the old monorail path. I mean as long as it doesnt cost the zoo a penny fine the monorail is ok but if asked to pick I would pick the gondola over the monorail and I hate heights.
 
So what I noticed about everything mentioned about the Brewery in the Master Plan, there's no mention of food, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. I think the focus is more on the beer, and whether and how to maximize the potential in that. There's mention of thinking about how the beer will be sold, as in will it be in house sales only, or maybe they'll produce beer to be sold in stores locally. It's pretty interesting.

As for the food, they mention the Restaurant, that's planned with the Nutrition Center, to consider higher diner. From the wording used, it leaves me to believe that we could see something outside of Compass for the location, which would be neat. Of course, there's always the possibility that it'll be a restaurant brand under Compass.

Here are some of my thoughts on the Maglev and Gondola both being operational without impeding each other. Firstly, the Maglev is already a project proposed to the zoo at no extra cost to the zoo. The Maglev company will pay for everything. But after the Domain is closed, it can be the best way in promoting the Rouge Valley, which is something they want to do. Plus, they can show that the Domain is now used for conservation, breeding, additional holding, ect. It's all about the messaging behind it. The Gondola is more of a scenic aerial ride that also helps get you around the zoo. Also, at this moment, there's no partner in getting the Gondola down.
 
Oh I bet food will be offered at the brewery. Nothing fancy. But possibly just enough to get people to linger and buy another beer or two.

Totally missed the concept of a better restaurant in the nutrition center. Well I saw it now that I think about it but never stopped to think about it or really read. I just blew past it for animal things. We all know how tunnel visioned I can be. Hey I will take any place were the food is better.

I dont hate the monorail to be clear. If they build it I'd probably go on one nostalgic run and then without seeing animals I would be over it. Thats just me. I could see me hating the height of the gondola but possibly riding it on visits to get the views. Ok it would get one try and then I would have to assess if my nerves can take being at that height again. If I'm fully enclosed probably. Not enclosed it might be hard to get me to try again. Not afraid of heights but they make me queasy. My go to might still be the zoomos even though I hate the looks of the white trains.
 
animalman0341 said:
You can’t really have a Canadian wilderness without bald Eagles.
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The Bald eagles are already on the list of phase-out, I feel sorry about this as a raptor-lover.

animalman0341 said:
I wonder if we’ll hear the reasoning behind it.
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The reason is probably cost-saving since Grizzly bears consume a lot of meat, fish and need much more enrichments. and they are not in danger in the wild and don't need conservation. But if the Zoo is really going to phase out Grizzly bear, I would say it is a stupid choice, b/c Grizzly bear is one of the few species in the Domain that can retain visitors to spend time watching them.

animalman0341 said:
What confuses me is the double or even triple up of the caribou exhibits?
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They may gonna breed the Caribou so plan the double size enclosure.

TZFan said:
Looks like we are loosing the capybara too... possibly
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I remember you already said the Zoo is going to phase out Capybara

TZFan said:
Also with Tundra Trek hey what are you putting in the empty exhibits? They should be filled sooner rather than later.
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Filling the Tundra Trek is quite difficult, the Zoo doesn't have that many choices of species, the Zoo has already failed at keeping Arctic Fox lots of times, they surely hesitate to bring back Arctic fox again. Wolverine? We need to get one from Europe. Arctic or Snowshoe hares? They are quite hard to happen and tend to be stressed when lots of people watch them. For Snowy Owl's exhibit, it is a small aviary that can't place a pond inside, so forget about King eider, Puffins or other waterbirds. Willow ptarmigan could be a reasonable choice, I like Gyrfalcon but it is hard to happen.
 
@StellarChaser Yeah bald eagles are on phase out but the icon they use for the eagles on the current maps is also on the Canadian Wilderness map. Of course this could also be used to represent any other raptor or large bird but I wouldn't be surprised if bald eagles came back to join the Wilderness, I can't imagine the Wilderness will open until long after the current last eagle is gone.

Capybaras aren't officially on the phase out list according to the Animal Plan but considering we're down to just Diego and the flamingos are taking over the main pool I wouldn't be surprised if a move or a phase out was in the works for the species. Maybe he'll go back to the Kids Zoo or something, that exhibit is currently empty from what I remember.

You hit the nail on the head for Tundra, not only are the two empty exhibits small and tough to fill but the options for an Arctic themed area are extremely limited and what is there is either hard to obtain or just won't work in either of the exhibits. I'm not surprised to see they've kinda given up on it.
 
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I dont remember ever saying the capybara were on phase out. I might have said maybe they are since we only have Diego who is neutered (I think) and before that we had Brutus too but no female for years. For some time the situation hasn't looked promising. As @hyena142 mentioned they werent on phase out in the Animal Plan and I have no other indication they are definitely phase outs now.
 
I don't remember seeing Bald Eagles listed as phased out, but if an exhibit is built for them in the Wilderness North, and the Bald Eagle is indeed phased out, the exhibit space can most likely accommodate another bird species.

I remember reading that the Capybara would rotate exhibits with the Flamingo. At least that's the plan they suggested when it comes to the Jaguar Jungle.

The plan for the Arctic Fox exhibit still looks like it's going to be retrofitted for Whooping Cranes.
 
Just another question for all. What is the one thing you are most excited about?
 
That's tough, there's a lot of good looking stuff in there. Obviously Wilderness North has been high on my list for years just because the Domain needs to die so obviously I'm extremely excited for that, but I honestly think the winner for me right now is the Savanna Meander. It just seems like a great way to add onto the best area of the zoo and give us the mixed exhibits and expansions we've all been asking for. Throw in the mini-pavilion that'll let us see some of the summer animals year-round and I think this one could be really special if it comes to pass.
 
I think for me it's Wilderness North. I have long wanted the return of a walking path in the drive-thru area. That returning is better than a lot of the other proposed idea for me. I like to spend the time I want and need at animals, so having that access is great news.
 
For me, Savanna Meander.
I can't say I like the Wilderness North based upon the current information, if the actual plan does phase out Grizzly bears and Bald eagles, add addtional enclosure for Caribou, I would say I am disappointed.

@cypher Whooping cranes are not the tundra species though, for geographical accuracy they should be placed into Wilderness North.
 
I think I am on board with @hyena142. The savanna is it for me. Not that the other parts arent great but for me its about the animals I enjoy getting an upgrade. It could be the gorillas if I understood anything they were doing there because my gorillas are my number 1s. However at the moment I dont get what they are up to there well enough to choose that over the savanna which I get and like.
 
@StellarChaser, you're right, the Whooping Crane should be in Wilderness North rather than the Tundra. But that's the current plan the zoo is going with, so it is what it is unfortunately.

I haven't seen anything saying the Grizzlies or Bald Eagles are phased out. So, I'm assuming they'll make the transfer. Remember, what's listed in the Master Plan is a guide. Wilderness North is the in the second half of this plan in terms of phasing, so changes can easily be made at the zoo discretion.
 
I think most of us are in agreement we would rather see the whooping cranes in Wilderness North over Tundra Trek. Sure they can technically go there but a bigger, better more deserving exhibit could be built in the expanse of the Wilderness. In Tundra Trek I think we all wish we could just have the foxes back and that they would live long healthy lives or we get wolverines. Who knows what will really happen though when they finally decide to fill that cursed exhibit.

The grizzlies are only concerning all of us because they are an iconic animal, probably the most charismatic and beloved among the Domain animals and yet they didnt show a spot for their habitat if they are staying yet they clearly showed a raccoon icon. It is possible it was just an omission but it is also not a positive sign. Right now they might be planning on dropping them but its still a ways away before they get to the project. They can always change their mind. All it could take is Samson and Shintay passing and a sibling set of adorable orphans coming available at just the right time to change their minds. Now that I am thinking I do wonder if the zoo is dropping the grizzlies because they are off display all winter while they hibernate? The whole plan was geared to getting more animals on display in the winter. That could be a factor. However if that is an issue then be smart and design an exhibit with denning space visible to guests. Their winter dens could be set up in a public area with thick one way glass and a barrier to keep the guests back preventing their hibernation from being disturbed. It would actually be cool to see the grizzlies while they hibernate. It could be a feature of the exhibit. As for budget as I have said I think most guests would be cool with dropping a second otter and caribou exhibit, lose the raccoons and eagles and maybe even the moose in order to get the grizzlies. The moose could be very hard to get. The SSP has just 11 of them, one young bull and 10 cows likely too old to breed or definitely too old to breed. They would need to rely on the Ministry of Natural Resources to gift them a pair of orphans again. While they would have to do the same thing with grizzlies, a moose calf can more easily be rehabilitated and released then a grizzly cub who needs its mother to teach it to hunt and forage. The MNR totally could just hand over a pair of moose but its been more than 15 years since they last did and their policies may have changed.
 
TZFan said:
The SSP has just 11 of them, one young bull and 10 cows likely too old to breed or definitely too old to breed. They would need to rely on the Ministry of Natural Resources to gift them a pair of orphans again. While they would have to do the same thing with grizzlies, a moose calf can more easily be rehabilitated and released then a grizzly cub who needs its mother to teach it to hunt and forage. The MNR totally could just hand over a pair of moose but its been more than 15 years since they last did and their policies may have changed.
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The moose SSP is non-breeding. It only exists to keep track of the population/institutional interest and to assist in and facilitate placing orphan calves. It is being transitioned to studbook only, as that’s all it is serving as anyways. I also would not suggest that it is simple to rehabilitate and release an orphan moose calves. Deer, in particular, imprint heavily on humans when hand-raised, which makes them both dependent on people and dangerous. There are also a lot more regulations in place for the rehabilitation of cervids, and those vary from region to region.
 
@Kudu21, you are right the SSP is not where the zoo's next moose could come from. The odds of that are non existent. The zoo will have no choice but to rely on the MNR to give them more moose. Its why maybe spending the money on a moose exhibit would be better spend on a grizzly exhibit. While they still have to rely on the MNR to get them they are much longer lived so we arent looking to replace them every 10 or so years unless we had young we kept. The grizzlies are a 20-30 year commitment.
 
I've been thinking a lot about the grizzlies since the plan came out (probably the most to be honest) and have been going back and forth.

I am a really big fan of the grizzly bears - so had never really thought through "why does the zoo have grizzlies". So I was running through the arguments that have been raised on this forum and thinking through are they "endangered" in comparison to some of the other animals where conversation is such a key message, and to be honest I hadn't really pieced together the bears being off exhibit while they were hibernating versus the zoo's endeavor to have more visible animals throughout the year, so it's been interesting to have these perspective come out.

That being said - I think there is a really strong link to education and more awareness programming on what it means to hibernate that the zoo could link into their programming (especially for kids). I'm thinking of the process, but also the lead up and seasonal changes (i.e. weight gain, change in diet etc.). All the interesting stuff that makes up for an interesting "animal talk" or facebook live session.

So I could see the fact the bears hibernate as a positive, since you have a large charismatic animal as an example to go through that annual process with. I know it would take up a lot of exhibit space, but there is also a lot of excitement in the fall and winter as they both prepare and then when they wake up. A family might take an "extra" trip in the spring because the bears woke up etc. I think it could offset the "loss" of an animal in the winter months.

Edited to add one more thought - it's not like the other "off exhibit animals" in the winter where it's frustrating you cannot see the hippos or rhinos because they happen to be awake and in an off exhibit enclosure because they cannot handle the weather. It's part of what it means to be an animal in Canada and in our "wilderness north" (sorry - terrible pun, but come on, it was asking for it).
 
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