Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo news 2012 #2

@TrigB

Fair enough, I respect where you are coming from.
Just we are not dealing with the past, we are dealing with present day Twycross and how it is run. I am well convinced most zoo staff on the ground feel the same way as we do that the zoo is just not moving.

A plea to helping out ... if you would have read this thread you would have known that management kicked out the former Zoo Friends group that was committed to change. Present day ... some high ranking individuals within the zoo do not want our or anyone with a grain of zoo management and husbandry knowledge's assistance in improving the zoo.

Also, I made several suggestions what I would say would really improve the zoo. As it stands to proclaim TZ as the World Primate Zoo is a complete and sick joke! Likely contenders are say ... Apenheul or Singapore Zoo ... certainly not TZ (and sadly so ... since in essence it could be a great place for primates but not on very mediocre and substandard old skool primate exhibits).

Let's leave it at that.
 
Ok, fair points.
If things are really that bad and you think regime change is the only possible solution (we are towards the end of the Arab Spring?), then why not start a pressure group to that end i.e. contact the Hinckley Times, the Coventry Telegraph and the Leicester Mercury [all longtime supporters of the zoo] and let them know your story? Let them do some investigative work about finances and corruption - all the time being explicit that we are not animal rights activists but pro-zoo people? 90% of visitors go for ice-creams and kids playground days with a hope of seeing an elephant and a chimp. 10% do care and have the ability to force change.
Sometimes, talking is just not good enough.
 
TriGB said:
I know how frustrating the whole Twycross thing is......., there are a multitude of layered problems but it will do no good to anyone constantly looking at past mistakes and blaming everyone all the time. Would it be a good idea to create a 'Twycross for the Future' thread where no references to past mistakes can be made? I grew up a few miles from this zoo and so it's like a second home in many ways, however, having now visited Zoos all over the world and making my family home near Living Coasts & Paignton, I can see how flat, un-inspiring and dull Twycross really is - but it has a place, a role and should have a future - to educate many kids from some very poor wards in Midlands. We should attempt to use our experience and knowledge to help them, encourage and positively lobby for change - hell, we (Zoochatters) could all arrange to meet and offer our time to paint a new enclosure or plant an existing one - come on, the past is gone!
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Great sentiment, but as someone smarter than me once said, "those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it". Unfortunately in Twycross' recent history there seems to have been no learning curve whatsoever. Whilst all zoos make occasional wrong turns in there developments Twycross seem to be making a (bad) habit of it.

Setting up a "Twycross for the future" thread is great in principle but in reality it'd just be another fantasy zoo thread. Twycross' big, big problem is trying to get a zoo that's looking old, tired and increasingly behind the times in terms of enclosures up to "modern standards" in a short amount of time with very little cash resources (see recent accounts, downloadable from the Charities Commission website).

At this point I personally can't see how the problem can be easily solved (hopefully the management have better ideas than me, but their past record doesn't seem great). Their approach, as far as I can see, seems to have been increasing entrance fees steeply whilst trying to market themselves intensely and broadly. 2012's new development, the Wetlands "Exhibit", is unlikely to increase numbers significantly -personally I wonder if it was a drainage problem that needed sorting out that's been given some spin.

Finally, given what I know of the management I can't see them listening to ZooChat members or accepting help from us (would you let a group of people, some of whom have criticised you harshly near your organisation where they might pick up negative information and disseminate it on the forum?).

Finally, a lick of paint or a few plants in existing enclosures is not going to solve any of the fundamental problems -you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

As I've stated before, although I criticise Twycross I value the place, and it's species, and visit fairly frequently (and put some money in) even though the experiences are underwhelming and set me moaning. I just want to see some right moves being made in the future that don't seem "make-do jobs" due to lack of money. My heart wants the place to succeed but my mind is sceptical whether it's able to.
 
Where have the trustees of this charity been in the last few years?, it's as plain as the nose on your face that all is not well at this zoo. I appreciate any new management coming into this zoo following the previous directors had a very hard act to follow, but..................
 
Shorts said:
2012's new development, the Wetlands "Exhibit", is unlikely to increase numbers significantly -personally I wonder if it was a drainage problem that needed sorting out that's been given some spin.
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I doubt a Wetlands exhibit will increase their gate at all- its something visitors may discover they enjoy while they are there- as a picnic area or whatever- but its not what brings them to the zoo in the first place.

Twycross management obviously would not wish to involve people on an Internet Discussion Forum like this directly in their activities, but if they do follow any of what's written, they might just take on board some of the most oft-repeated and constructive comments and suggestions, in which case I think such discussion could have some value or influence in improving and shaping the zoo in the future.
 
Pertinax said:
I doubt a Wetlands exhibit will increase their gate at all- its something visitors may discover they enjoy while they are there- as a picnic area or whatever- but its not what brings them to the zoo in the first place.

Twycross management obviously would not wish to involve people on an Internet Discussion Forum like this directly in their activities, but if they do follow any of what's written, they might just take on board some of the most oft-repeated and constructive comments and suggestions, in which case I think such discussion could have some value or influence in improving and shaping the zoo in the future.
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@Pertinax, agree 100% .. just doubt ZM TZ will do anything with constructive with it.

I found the wetlands area a bit puzzling (and rightly wrongly it will not get the punters through the gate). If TZ would work on the areas I suggested ... it might just go to work.
 
Jordan-Jaguar97 said:
Let's be fair though, if the Chimps could speak I think every single Chimp in the UK excluding Chester and Edinburgh would want an exhibit like Edinburgh's. I would rate Edinburgh's 'Budongo trail' one of the best Chimp exhibit's I have seen and heard of.
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They might want the indoors (even thought they can't speak) but I doubt the Monkey World chimps would swap their outdoor enclosures for Edinburgh. They are excellent (given the absence of natural vegetation) providing lots of space for the chimps to get away from each other, lots of high climbing opportunities, swinging equipment, platforms to sleep on, hills to hide behind, shelters to sit in, neighbours to nosey at. It's amazing that when they are shut out in the morning for cleaning indoors 19 chimps can manage to disappear!
 
TARZAN said:
Where have the trustees of this charity been in the last few years?, it's as plain as the nose on your face that all is not well at this zoo. I appreciate any new management coming into this zoo following the previous directors had a very hard act to follow, but..................
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Hit the nail on the head there. That really is the (wasted) million(s) dollar question.
 
OrangePerson said:
They might want the indoors (even thought they can't speak) but I doubt the Monkey World chimps would swap their outdoor enclosures for Edinburgh.
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There are quite a few Zoo enclosures around like that- the 'best' indoor area is at one Zoo, while the most highly-rated outdoor enclosure is at another. Another example is Uk Orangutan enclosures, Paignton undoubtedly have the best outdoor area, but the inside exhibition areas at both Chester and Jersey are IMO, much superior to Paignton's- I would actually rate Jersey's the best because of both its height for the animals and the good public viewing area at ground level within the stylish, attractive 'Longhouse' style building- much easier to view than ROTRA's pit-style enclosures with the too-small viewing windows and often congested corridor-though I accept Chester's volume of visitor traffic is much higher than Jersey's.

The trick for designers of new enclosures is to combine the best from other existing exhibits in any new design. So I hope that's what happens with Twycross' new chimp exhibit if/when it comes to fruition.
 
OrangePerson said:
They might want the indoors (even thought they can't speak) but I doubt the Monkey World chimps would swap their outdoor enclosures for Edinburgh. They are excellent (given the absence of natural vegetation) providing lots of space for the chimps to get away from each other, lots of high climbing opportunities, swinging equipment, platforms to sleep on, hills to hide behind, shelters to sit in, neighbours to nosey at. It's amazing that when they are shut out in the morning for cleaning indoors 19 chimps can manage to disappear!
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All of which Edinburgh has plus a large amount of natural vegetation and a running water stream....just as excellent as Monkey World.
 
cracker said:
All of which Edinburgh has plus a large amount of natural vegetation and a running water stream....just as excellent as Monkey World.
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I don't think there's anywhere near the amount of space, or there didn't appear to be when I was there.
 
Outdoor chimps- Monkeyworld, Chester, Edinburgh(pics only seen) Whipsnade- I would rate these all pretty much on a par with each other as probably the best in UK- and all far superior to current Chimp outdoor areas at you-know-where!.;)
 
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OrangePerson said:
I don't think there's anywhere near the amount of space, or there didn't appear to be when I was there.
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I think it's pretty deceptive, there is a "L" shaped enclosure where they have two huge climbing/pole structures separate from one another but linked with ropes and quite a few areas which are just open with vegetation. In fact one corner area they don't even use that much but it's an area where they can get away from view if they want. One problem is maybe that viewing into the outdoor enclosure is limited so it's probably harder to appreciate the full size of the area available to the chimps and it's on a slope as well and and surrounded by vegetation.
 
And it was a really horrible day when I went, the chimps just ran out & grabbed their grub so I probably didn't see it at it's best!
 
Dudley's is also pretty good (and again better than you-know-where)
Yes it is, much better. Dudley have a different problem- the female-only group because they're scared males would escape. Supposed to be doing something about that but I see no change at present.

Sorry Shorts, edited your post instead of quoting it, my mistake.:o
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TriGB said:
I know how frustrating the whole Twycross thing is......., there are a multitude of layered problems but it will do no good to anyone constantly looking at past mistakes and blaming everyone all the time. Would it be a good idea to create a 'Twycross for the Future' thread where no references to past mistakes can be made? I grew up a few miles from this zoo and so it's like a second home in many ways, however, having now visited Zoos all over the world and making my family home near Living Coasts & Paignton, I can see how flat, un-inspiring and dull Twycross really is - but it has a place, a role and should have a future - to educate many kids from some very poor wards in Midlands. We should attempt to use our experience and knowledge to help them, encourage and positively lobby for change - hell, we (Zoochatters) could all arrange to meet and offer our time to paint a new enclosure or plant an existing one - come on, the past is gone!
Click to expand...

Very commendable that you suggest that some members of this group offer to help at Twycross, however, as has been previously been stated the chances of this happening are zero, the TZA were kicked out after many years of loyal service for some strange reason. What I will say though is that there is a member of this group who participates in our Twycross discussions who in my opinion should without doubt be a trustee of this society, the more he writes about Twycross the more this enhances my opinion, I'm not going to name this person, but no Mr. Zoo Giraffe it is not you:)
 
TARZAN said:
Very commendable that you suggest that some members of this group offer to help at Twycross, however, as has been previously been stated the chances of this happening are zero, the TZA were kicked out after many years of loyal service for some strange reason. What I will say though is that there is a member of this group who participates in our Twycross discussions who in my opinion should without doubt be a trustee of this society, the more he writes about Twycross the more this enhances my opinion, I'm not going to name this person, but no Mr. Zoo Giraffe it is not you:)
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Good I'm glad its not me because I had enough,in 3 years of being on the TZA council including being on at the bitter end,between the zoo and the TZA,which came very much out of the blue to many!
 
Sorry to ask again, but it's kind of important as I am trying to sort out some research. Are the sea lions due to leave? If so when?
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
That whole entry complex is a missed opportunity and cost way too much.
I cannot phantom how 10 mln just evaporated ...:(

Priorities:
1) South American primate islands and walk through small callichtrids house.
2) Gibbonaria, Orang Utan Rainforest and S.E. leaf eating monkey area.
3) Central Congo basin primate area and colobus, mangabey and Cercopithecinae islands. Bonobo Experience.

The other much talked about Great Apes do not feature to highly
on my list.

4) The Asian Carnivore area
5) Elephant Bull Stalls and opening up the grassy yards to the elephant herd(s) ... multiple yards.
6) Asian hoofstock in the same general location as 4) and 5) so it will amalgamate into one Zone.

7) Given peoples' tastes in zoo day outs of giraffe, rhino et al ... a full African savannah experience.
8) South American Zone with both small carnivores (bush dog, maned wolf, tayra, coati) and capybary, Darwin's rhea ... giant anteater.

Overall more naturalistic exhibitry ... and less concrete.

Perhaps too much wishful thinking? :cool: :eek:
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If any of these suggestions happened before the chimps were sorted, I'd be truly horrified, and I think this thread would exode with protests.
 
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