I think I might have seen a short clip but cannot remember the whole transportation. Is it on Youtube?
Taronga Zoo Update on Taronga's Overseas Gorilla Troop
- Thread starter Axl
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I think I might have seen a short clip but cannot remember the whole transportation. Is it on Youtube?
I don't know. I saw it as a longer film, probably made by ABC or somewhere. It was very interesting as they were all fully awake during the whole trip- they may have been mildly sedated but were definately not 'knocked out' as used to be the norm in those days.
When I visited Taronga I thought everything was fine for the Gorillas, excepting the enclosure is a bit small for the size of the Group- I didn't know then that it was built for Giant Pandas, which explains why and the particular 'rocky' design.
When I visited Taronga I thought everything was fine for the Gorillas, excepting the enclosure is a bit small for the size of the Group- I didn't know then that it was built for Giant Pandas, which explains why and the particular 'rocky' design.
It is quite an unusual enclosure in the sense that it the design is quite 'blocky', meaning that everything is squared eg. hotwired trees, enclosure design. When I go to Melbourne this coming weekend it will be interesting to see a different and more natural enclosure, and one that has glass viewing to the outdoor areas. It would be interesting to see (just imagining this, not wanting it to happen) Taronga's gorillas in the Melbourne enclosure and vice versa, the consistent young will surely destroy the trees and make the enclosure bare. I would imagine once Melbourne gets its breeding up and running again that it won't be as lush as it is today.
The enclosure for the pandas is long gone - the gorilla enclosure is built on the same site, but it is an enclosure designed specifically for the gorillas.
Hix
I didn't know that- maybe that's why in the past some people on here have said it is the same enclosure the Pandas used, and some have said it isn't. Are the rockface walls along the back from the Panda enclosure or was it entirely different?
I do think glass windows instead of a water moat would have hugely increased the space for the Gorillas though.
I do think glass windows instead of a water moat would have hugely increased the space for the Gorillas though.
I know transporatation of these animals is expensive but is a transfer of Frala to Prague Zoo out the question? Frala is still capable of breeding an Prague Zoo could do with another breeding female. In addition, this will provide both Shinda and Frala with company. There is no doubt in my mind that Frala and Shinda would recongnise each other as we saw in New Zealand last week when a handraised chimp (now in her 40s) met her foster mother she hadn't seen in over 30 years and instantly recongnised her.
The enclosure for the pandas is long gone - the gorilla enclosure is built on the same site, but it is an enclosure designed specifically for the gorillas.
Hix
I remember visiting the pandas and both Taronga and Melbourne. Its interesting that both zoos ended up with gorilla exhibits on the same site.
I had come to the conclusion however that the outdoor section of the Taronga exhibit was a renovated/refurbished panda exhibit rather than a new enclosure from scratch since i seem to recollect the same moat and low rendered reddish wall along the front face of the enclosure and assumed the back rear wall rockwork was likely the same as well?
I'm not sure if melbourne partly retained some aspects of the panda exhibit for their finished gorilla enclosure. it seems possible. I also remember certain moats and animal night quarters being in the same locations as they presently are.
The walkway out the front and the wall are the same. The moat is also the same except it was widened for the gorillas. The backwall was originally red brick and I think it may have been the nightdens (but don't quote me on that). The enclosure area was separated into two enclosures by a metal fence that ran down the middle and into the moat.
So, apart from the viewing area and wall at the front, everything else for the gorillas was created for them. The new backwall (the rock one) caused concerns amongst some of the staff as they thought the gorillas would be able to climb out. The director at the time made the statement that even a rock-climber couldn't climb out, and a rock-climber was organised to try (in front of the media) - he was out in only a few minutes.
Hix
So, apart from the viewing area and wall at the front, everything else for the gorillas was created for them. The new backwall (the rock one) caused concerns amongst some of the staff as they thought the gorillas would be able to climb out. The director at the time made the statement that even a rock-climber couldn't climb out, and a rock-climber was organised to try (in front of the media) - he was out in only a few minutes.
Hix
You learn something new everyday on here! I never knew Melbourne's Gorilla Forest was on the previous site of a Panda exhibit(in fact I didn't know Melbourne had had Pandas) I imagine the area was enlarged considerably after it was a Panda exhibit? The only thing I don't like about Melbourne's Gorilla outdoor exhibit is the very small areas for public viewing seperated by long distances from which the animals aren't visible. I can't see that it achieves anything and just hampers viewing. Taronga's wins hands down on that score- good viewing along the whole enclosure.
In the UK too there are 'easy to view' outdoor enclosures(London, Bristol, Twycross) and more difficult ones(Paignton- similarly very few vantage points as at Melbourne.)
The same panda pair. They toured the region spending six months at each Australian zoo (starting with Melbourne) and also Auckland from memory...
Really? thats one of the main things I love about Melbourne's exhibit. The true concept of immersion at work. Visitors get a chance to absorb the forest landscape between animal encounters. The exhibits have room to breathe. Thats the achievement. The exhibit actually has at least five viewing locations, two with glass, and one area has been substantially opened up in the last year.
Yeah, but which one is better for the gorillas?
Melbourne's is undeniably better for the animals, but I don't think the two concepts need to be related at all..
If they have opened up additional viewing areas then it may be an improvement on how it used to be. I never really feel the 'immersion' experience works that well at these sort of exhibits though- it just seems more a case of having to trek long distances to very limited viewing spots where you then may or may not see the animals. If they aren't at those specific spots, then you see nothing.
You can still have Gorillas (or other species too) in an enclosure with plenty of cover for them and areas they can disappear into for privacy, but with clear lines of site for visitors. To me that is preferable. The long winding pathway around Melbourne's exhibit seems to achieve nothing. Away from the viewing areas you're just walking along a blind path. Paignton in UK have a similar system, you walk long distances around the exhibit for little purpose.
I wil be going to Melbourne (and Werribee) this coming weekend so I guess I will get to compare their enclosure with Taronga's. Although, judging from the reviews and photos both on here and other websites, I expect that Melbourne is better. It will be nice to see lush plants and a big enclosure for a change. Are there other animals that you can view while walking between the viewing areas?
Melbourne's is way ahead regarding size/area and vegetation/cover. Its one of the most natural- looking enclosures I've seen. I have not been there for many years but there were no other exhibits along the paths that I remember.
Thank you for the quick response. I guess a long walk is planned, which is a good thing as I need to lose a bit of weight!
BTW Pertinax, have you personally seen US gorilla exhibits?
Absolutely. although unfortunately both the pygmy hippo enclosures are now empty, there is still an mandrill exhibit and the treetop monkey and apes exhibits as part of the gorilla rainforest trail.
Im sorry, but the other exhibits are most certainly all part of the same path. Feel free to check out the MZ map on their website.
Agreed. In fact they are all part of a proposed themed bio-geographical exhibit area for "African Rainforest". This was part of the Hancocks masterplan which was to turn the zoo into a series of bio-geographically themed areas. Other species that were proposed at the time for this area (between the ape house and the monkeys) included red river hogs and bongos. At one time the Congo buffalos were to have taken the place of the bongos. The monkey exhibits would have been devoted to African rainforest monkeys and birds. A step towards this was taken when the small enclosures at either end were devoted to African Grey Parrots and Nyasa Lovebirds respectively.
Hancocks masterplan had each region on a loop, the visitor would have to complete the loop before moving on to another region. He had planned four rainforest regions, African, Asian, South American and Australian, all in that area between the front of the zoo and the Great Flight Aviary. The recent Asian exhibits are part of that development, however obviously any thoughts of a South American section have been abandoned. I don't know if an Australian rainforest section is still planned.
The monkey exhibits themselves and what I refer to as the "Sydney Opera House" ape exhibits were part of an earlier taxanomical masterplan that grew out of Butcher's reforms of the zoo in the mid '60's. The monkey exhibit was in fact the last of these taxanomically grouped exhibits, and the plan was to have a series of primate exhibits between them and the ape exhibits. Other examples of these taxanomically grouped exhibits from this era include the big cat and small cat ranges, the macropod range (now covered by Asian rainforest) and the rebuilding of the hoofed stock range.
Hope I havn't bored you all. And maybe this and some of the proceeding posts would be better under a MZ thread, if moderators want to move them.
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Haven't bored me in the slightest.
Would that be David Hancocks? If so its of little surprise. I think the exhibits built through the 90's (gorillas, pygmy hippo's, mandrills, tigers, otters) were without doubt the best exhibits at the zoo and I was always a fan of his zoo philosophy and work with completely reinventing Werribee into the great zoo it is today. He is a very talented man.
Its a shame that he had to go up against such resistance and that his visions have been abandoned.
He's done some great opinion pieces over the years in the papers. I've never disagreed with a word he's uttered.
The right and wrong ways to zoo it - Opinion - smh.com.au
Would that be David Hancocks? If so its of little surprise. I think the exhibits built through the 90's (gorillas, pygmy hippo's, mandrills, tigers, otters) were without doubt the best exhibits at the zoo and I was always a fan of his zoo philosophy and work with completely reinventing Werribee into the great zoo it is today. He is a very talented man.
Its a shame that he had to go up against such resistance and that his visions have been abandoned.
He's done some great opinion pieces over the years in the papers. I've never disagreed with a word he's uttered.
The right and wrong ways to zoo it - Opinion - smh.com.au