Vegetarian?

[Maguari]

Interesting results so far. Suprised we don't have a vegan yet.

I'm sure they're out there, but they're probably just too weak to move the mouse and tick the box.





*runs from thread to avoid being pelted with beansprouts*

 

[Sun Wukong]

You can throw plenty of meat at me, it wouldnt bother me.

Oh, really? @Chlidonias: get the elephants ready. And don't forget the olives.

In terms of teenage lust for rebellion: why not be really original and NOT rebel at all?

 

[Indlovu]

Here is my contribution...

I have never advocated a vegetarian diet to anyone

I have - and be warned, I think I might do it again now...

I have been considering going back to meat over the next few days, as I miss Chicken, Crab, Duck and Salmon, I also think this will be a better diet for me as a growing child (Im 13) although....

Keep going, don't give up - I can't even remember what all that tastes like.

But animals taste so good!

Not if you've forgotten what they taste like

I'm a carnivore and proud of it.

I won't actually comment there. Not even a smilie.

In my opinion, if we weren't meant to eat animals then they shouldn't be made out of meat

So everything is for eating

For your information Maguari I go out of my way to get a balanced diet, for example I take B12 Tablets, Multi-Vitimans, Plenty of Nuts and Veg, a medium amount of Dairy, lots of Qourn and flax (spelt right) seed oil in my diet so...

Hehe, I don't have an awful lot of those (if any) - I'm not the healthiest tbh

I have been working in a slaughterhouse for three years, and I have seen my share of pigs getting killed. It isn't a pretty sight, that's true, but not as cruel as animal right activists are claiming it to be. It's quite humane, a pig gets sedated and are then stabbed through their throat, so their heart can pump out all of their blood. 99% of the pigs doesn't feel anything, but off course, since nothing is perfect in this world, sometimes theyu aren't sedated well, and actually suffer. But this happens only to a very small minority off the pigs!

I now feel rather unwell - sounds rather brutal to me tbh

it's hard to believe that someone would freely refrain oneself from the deliciousness of tender bison stew, juicy springbok steak, super-thin jamón ibérico de bellota slices, tasty barramundi filet, some good ol' gumbo or that spicy horse goulash my grandma used to make.

See first response to Paix/Maguari.

What I have experienced several times when encountering vegetarians is an often more or less openly presented air of moral superiority-like in hybrid car drivers.

Well when people ask you questions about Vegetarianism it's rather hard to answer in any other way!

Lighten up folks

No chance.

do you want to twist it again into an attempted personal insult? Maybe your own self-generated smugness clouded your vision to see the lightheartedness of my post.

Perhaps you ought to have a look at your posts again - they seem rather offensive, as you seem to depict veggies as being generally smug people who only ever talk about what they eat


Well that's my opinion - whether you like it or not - I'm a proud veggie, and I will do my very best to make others join me.

Harry

*Prepares to receive a large amount of criticism*

 

[Paix]

Oh, really? @Chlidonias: get the elephants ready. And don't forget the olives.

In terms of teenage lust for rebellion: why not be really original and NOT rebel at all?

My form of rebellion is much different to normal teenage rebellion! I support Greenpeace, care for the environment and hate CAPS! Where as my friends rebel by dyeing their hair and other things...

 

[Sun Wukong]

@haz_cat: Honestly, I'm utterly sorry for you losing your taste-or rather, the memory of it. Yes, seriously! It's like someone having lost his/her hearing and no longer remembering great music. Or someone having lost his/her sight and no longer remembering the beauty of sunrise and sunset. Or someone in a dictatorship no longer remembering what freedom actually means. ...

Giving up my freedom of choice for the strange promise that I will forget this freedom and all the good taste that goes with it isn't a very convincing argument-quite the contrary. I'll take my red pill with some steak, please.

There is a reason why good quality meat tastes so good: because it is good. There is a reason behind us enjoying meat over all the ages and pretty much most if not all cultures-and not having the digestive system of an ungulate or a colobus monkey: meat is a natural and healthy part of our diet. Even more so when consumed reasonably and coming from a good source.

Considering working in a slaughterhouse "brutal" without actually having been in one is rather the real offence. I have worked in slaughterhouses and can relate to what Johnny wrote.

So you think it's OK to be smug torwards "non-vegetarians", but feel offended when I observe that some(sic!) vegetarians behave that very way? How peculiar. Perhaps you ought to have a look at your posts again.

Sorry if I couldn't give you the large amount of criticism you pleaded for. Good luck with that, your mission-and your future journey re-discovering taste.

 

[redpanda]

@redpanda: I was (jokingly) referring to zooplantman's question: for me, the "problem" is that it is hard for me to understand why someone would not eat the delicious dishes I mentioned. However, I personally don't mind if people don't eat them (as it means that there will be more of it left for me )-unless they do not want to press me to follow their example. Does this explain my post to you, or do you want to twist it again into an attempted personal insult? Maybe your own self-generated smugness clouded your vision to see the lightheartedness of my post. Or are you just in the mood for another unnecessary banter?

If that's what you meant then my apologies. That is not, however, what you said. No I am not in the mood for "unnecessary banter", but if someone questioned my beliefs and were openly contradictory about it then I would take them up on that (there are, incidentally, many instances of you doing the same). And it seems rather foolish of you to say that I was "twisting" your post into a personal insult and then claim that my "own self-generated smugness clouded [my] vision" in the next sentence. Do I even need to point out that this could quite legitimately be perceived as insulting? Indeed, I seem to remember that it was your humble self who imparted to me the importance of not insulting people as it "cheapens" your argument (cryptozoology thread for anyone interested). Finally, on that same thread you also said how offensive you found my lighthearted "banter" and that me not meaning it as such was no excuse, so do not assume that you talking "jokingly" should stop others questioning what you have written.

 

[siamang27]

I eat meat, and love it.
I couldn't imagine not eating it, either. But if anyone doesn't want to eat meat, more for the rest of us.

 

[Sun Wukong]

Ah, I see; it's that time of the month for you again, @redpanda.... Don't worry; I accept your apologies.

 

[Paix]

Shakes head in disbelief....

 

[Maguari]

Can we just talk about Asterix? Far less controversial.

I get the feeling a few people take this a little seriously!


It all comes down to personal preference but for me the only pro-vegetarian argument that holds any water is the carbon-efficiency one advocated by redpanda above. And I'm of the view that one can make personal carbon cutbacks in other areas if one wishes. I want meat. As Sun points out, it's a natural part of our diet. The fact that Paix (who otherwise seems to have a very well balanced diet, given the absence of one of the human diet's major components) feels the need to take B12 supplements is the giveaway that the diet is not properly balanced. A balanced diet doesn't require artifical supplements.

I have no problems with eating any animal - with just three caveats:

1) They should be reared and despatched as humanely as possible (while I am pro-meat, I am anti hunting with hounds, for example)

2) They should not be from endangered species (although I am very happy to eat rare domestic breeds, as eating them encourages their commercial breeding and actually increases their security!)

3) They should not be humans! (Chlidonias' societal convention kicks in!)

 

[Pygathrix]

I get the feeling a few people take this a little seriously!

Do you not think that it deserves serious debate?

As Sun points out, it's a natural part of our diet.

Not in the large amounts that humans now consume. Also intensive farming methods increase the amount of fat in the meat, eg chicken once considered a "healthy option" compared to red meat is much less so these days.

 

[Zooplantman]

Do you not think that it deserves serious debate?

On a global scale it does.
But this thread was a Poll (not a debate) and is being provoked into a school yard tussle (still not a debate).
Interesting that the 13 year old is acting more mature than the "grown ups"

 

[Maguari]

Do you not think that it deserves serious debate?

Certainly. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to joke as well. This site's supposed to fun, no?

Regarding your comments on quantity you are entirely right. But vegetarianism and reducing meat intake are not the same thing - I agree that most of us (probably myself included) eat more meat and dairy than we should. All that means is that we should reduce this - it does not follow that none at all is automatically better than too much. Everything in moderation!

 

[Maguari]

On a global scale it does.
But this thread was a Poll and is being provoked into a school yard tussle.
Debates do not read like this.

Wel, in fairness, the thread did start out as just a poll. It never claimed to be an indepth debate.

 

[Pygathrix]

I agree we can all joke but accusing someone of taking things too seriously can come across as patronising and dismissive. Not as bad as that PMT joke though

 

[Maguari]

I agree we can all joke but accusing someone of taking things too seriously can come across as patronising and dismissive.

Just as point of order, I quite specifically didn't say 'take this a little too seriously' but 'take this a little seriously' for precisely that reason - it's not for me to say what's too seriously. But your point is taken.


On a different angle - what brings us all together here is zoos - and zoos require large numbers of food animals and animal products for the carnivorous residents, many of which are byproducts of farming for human consumption (in particular day-old chicks spring to mind). I'm just interested in how people fell about that, particularly from a vegetarian perspective. Most vegetarians I would have thought would like everyone to be veggie in an ideal world - but that would remove this source of animal food. Would you support limited farming for animal food (this would of course affect pets like cats and dogs as well as zoo animals)? Or would we need to stop keeping carnivorous animals in captivity altogether?

 

[Zooplantman]

Most vegetarians I would have thought would like everyone to be veggie in an ideal world - but that would remove this source of animal food. Would you support limited farming for animal food (this would of course affect pets like cats and dogs as well as zoo animals)? Or would we need to stop keeping carnivorous animals in captivity altogether?

Ah there it is... I don't know if there is an opinion shared by "most vegetarians," anymore than there is by "most omnivores"

As I (and others here) have stated, I don't care if others eat and enjoy meat. Good for them. And although I am vegetarian, I never imposed vegetarianism on my dogs. Why would I?

No doubt there are Fundamentalist Vegetarians and one day the police will round them all up as is proper. But not all of us have joined.

So, in short, farm cows and mice and mealworms and lettuce. I'd rather see any decent well managed farm than more housing developments

 

[Sun Wukong]

Interesting that the 13 year old is acting more mature than the "grown ups"

How? By writing "Shakes head in disbelief...."? I try to keep myself out of any "school yard tussle", even if my most harmless writing and joking seems to provoke that very behaviour in some. Regarding the joking aspect: I agree with what Maguari wrote. I have enough serious "grown up" aspects in real life to deal with that I can afford some little harmless lighthearted horsing around. In particular when it comes to a subject where the fronts are already entrenched right to begin with...

 

[Maguari]

Ah there it is... I don't know if there is an opinion shared by "most vegetarians," anymore than there is by "most omnivores"

A fair point, but as I would contest vegetarians must believe vegetarianism to be better than omnivory (or they wouldn't be vegetarian to start with) I expect the majority would like to see more people (or everyone) be vegetarian as well.

(though I guess Paix's case shows there are definitely exceptions - part of the appeal for him is it makes him different)

As I (and others here) have stated, I don't care if others eat and enjoy meat. Good for them. And although I am vegetarian, I never imposed vegetarianism on my dogs. Why would I?

No doubt there are Fundamentalist Vegetarians and one day the police will round them all up as is proper. But not all of us have joined.

So, in short, farm cows and mice and mealworms and lettuce. I'd rather see any decent well managed farm than more housing developments

Nothing I can argue with there!

 

[Zooplantman]

A fair point, but as I would contest vegetarians must believe vegetarianism to be better than omnivory (or they wouldn't be vegetarian to start with) I expect the majority would like to see more people (or everyone) be vegetarian as well.

Why assume such things?
Are all the decisions we make about how to live our lives based on what we believe all people should do?
Being so doctrinaire sounds exhausting.
I have no idea what is best for all people. There's too damn many of them!
I became vegetarian because I did not want to personally kill an animal and I didn't want to rely on others to do my dirty work.
Paix gave a different reason.
I know vegetarians who feel better if they don't eat meat.
I know vegetarians who do it for spiritual or religious reasons.
I know vegetarians who were raised that way and never knew to eat meat.

We are really not the monolithic cult we appear to be to some people.
And I suspect that the same may be said for a great many "groups". Even zoo fanciers