What is your ranking of the MCU movies? (from least favorite to most favorite)

[Chlidonias]

I don't understand all the hate for Black Panther

I doubt anyone "hates" it - it is simply just so middle-of-the-road. (I was trying to think of a totally average American zoo for my analogy earlier, but I know even less about American zoos than I do about Marvel movies, so I just plumped for the DeYoung Family Zoo).

Black Panther suffers from the same problem as several of those "in-between" MCU movies - they had to rush it out to fit into their timeline, and it just looks and feels rushed. There was no effort put into making it really good, only "good enough".

 

[birdsandbats]

Last time I'm going to explain this...

Right, BP gets it wrong in loads of ways. Killing off Klaue, battle rhinos, terrible CGI, not enough M'Baku, a rather lacklustre set up, a meh plot... Well that's why I don't like it, others can speak for themselves.


No AC/DC, and the fact that it was so tonally different from the other two Iron Man movies.

Most of the movies in the MCU have a meh plot IMO, it's other things that save this movie. The costumes are incredible, Killmonger is possibly the best villain in the MCU, and T'Challa is pretty interesting himself, especially in the third act. The CGI is the worst in the MCU but is still better than most movies. I can agree on not enough M'Baku though, I hope to see more of him in the sequel!

I thought the tone change was a good thing, it helped improve the movies a lot, similar to how a shift to pure comedy helped Ragnarok. I know nothing about popular music though, and wouldn't know an AC/DC song if a truck load of them fell on my head.

T'Challa himself isn't really that good of a character though. While he's somewhat interesting in Civil War, he's very boring in his own movie, so much so that I don't remember anything about him in Black Panther. (Admittedly I watched this movie over a year ago, but I remember that I was very disappointed and I kind of felt like I wasted my time by watching the movie.)
Also, while I understand all the hate for Iron Man 3, I still enjoyed it. It's a fun flick, and I loved the scene where Tony had to use his brains instead of his suit while infiltrating the Mandarins mansion. Although, the scene where they bombed Tony's mansion did piss me off a little, he should have let Pepper leave, she was rightfully scared that they would bomb the house and Tony was just putting her life in danger.

T'Challa seems a little bland in the second act of the movie, but he is interesting in the first and second acts, IMO.

I'm actually not a fan of Iron Man as a character, honestly. He makes stupid decisions and deals with the consequences by beating them up with his suit. As annoying as Tony is, IM3 shows more of Tony without the suit, thinking instead of just blasting. I like that. Also, the plot of this movie is far better than Iron Man 1 or 2.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

I really don't understand why Black Panther isn't the number one movie on everyone's list, or at least top 10.

Because the plot and Wakanda as portrayed in the film and in the broader MCU makes no damn sense

~Thylo

 

[Chlidonias]

The CGI is the worst in the MCU but is still better than most.

Your argument needs work

 

[birdsandbats]

Your argument needs work

I meant most movies as a whole.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Killmonger is possibly the best villain in the MCU

He's pretty much your typical MCU villain; someone using the same technology as the hero, who has a personal grudge against the hero or someone close to them - and in the more sympathetic cases genuinely *was* wronged - and is seeking revenge

Broadly speaking, the vast majority of MCU villains have fit that template!

 

[Coelacanth18]

He's pretty much your typical MCU villain; someone using the same technology as the hero, who has a personal grudge against the hero or someone close to them - and in the more sympathetic cases genuinely *was* wronged - and is seeking revenge

Is that giving Killmonger's role enough credit? He essentially won the central moral argument of the film (well, and Lupita Nyong'o also - as she was essentially making the same argument from within) and while he was ultimately power-hungry, narcissistic and disgracefully violent as supervillains generally are, I thought the fact that T'Challa heard him out, showed him mercy and kindness at the end before his death, and ultimately changed the political direction of the country indicates that Killmonger was a much more influential figure in the film than supervillains generally are.

I'm not sure I want to get too deep in the weeds on discussing Black Panther, as the lines have been drawn and it's been discussed before - but it is still one of the MCU films I like the most even after watching several more of them. I just don't have as much issue with the plot and CGI as other people did, as it seemed coherent enough (for an MCU film) and the CGI didn't strike me as so bad it was painful to watch (as some other movies have been).

I was disappointed they killed (and underutilized) Klaue, but at least he was in the film a decent amount - and he and Killmonger are both at or near the top of my favorite Marvel supervillains. More M'Baku would have also been nice, but I liked the amount we got.

 

[birdsandbats]

Indeed I find it particularly bizarre that he dislikes Guardians so much (going so far as to say that it was "so bad that "infinitely better" can only be so good" in fact) and yet rates Ragnarok - a film which tonally and stylistically is very much akin to Guardians - as the third best film in the series.

I'm also rather bemused at how generously he rates The Incredible Hulk

At this rate I might not post my retrospective, I'm giving it all away here! I don't really like any of the Guardians. Star Lord is annoying, adult Groot just says the same thing over and over and has no redeeming qualities, and Rocket makes too many bad decisions. Gamora feels like a bland love interest in the first film. Drax is okay in the first film but is just mean in the second. I didn't really think Guardians 1 was't funny, I only laughed a couple of times (compared to Ragnarok where I was pretty much continually laughing throughout the whole film). I also find that it's almost hard to understand films that don't take place on Earth.

I don't get the hate for The Incredible Hulk. either. By far the best Phase One movie.

 

[birdsandbats]

He's pretty much your typical MCU villain; someone using the same technology as the hero, who has a personal grudge against the hero or someone close to them - and in the more sympathetic cases genuinely *was* wronged - and is seeking revenge

Broadly speaking, the vast majority of MCU villains have fit that template!

Is that giving Killmonger's role enough credit? He essentially won the central moral argument of the film (well, and Lupita Nyong'o also - as she was essentially making the same argument from within) and while he was ultimately power-hungry, narcissistic and disgracefully violent as supervillains generally are, I thought the fact that T'Challa heard him out, showed him mercy and kindness at the end before his death, and ultimately changed the political direction of the country indicates that Killmonger was a much more influential figure in the film than supervillains generally are.

I'm not sure I want to get too deep in the weeds on discussing Black Panther, as the lines have been drawn and it's been discussed before - but it is still one of the MCU films I like the most even after watching several more of them. I just don't have much issue with the plot and CGI as other people did, as it seemed coherent enough (for an MCU film) and the CGI didn't strike me as so bad it was painful to watch (as some other movies have been).

I was disappointed they killed (and underutilized) Klaue, but at least he was in the film a decent amount - and he and Killmonger are both at or near the top of my favorite Marvel supervillains. More M'Baku would have also been nice, but I liked the amount we got.

@Coelacanth18 just summed up most of my thoughts about Killmonger, but I have another thing to say - he's one of the few villains where you can truly feel his motivations. Most MCU villains seem to want to either take over the world or destroy it. These are motivations we almost never see of people in the real world, so they are hard to relate to. But Killmonger wants to make the world better for suppressed peoples. Throughout history millions of people have been suppressed by other, and millions still are today. It's much easier to understand and relate to Killmonger's motivations, but also to understand why he must be stopped.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I also find that it's almost hard to understand films that don't take place on Earth.

*makes a note to avoid mentioning the existence of franchises such as Star Wars, Star Trek and Alien to BNB lest the sheer lack of understanding melt his brain*

 

[Brum]

I don't get the hate for The Incredible Hulk. either. By far the best Phase One movie.

*cough* Avengers *cough*

*cough* First Avenger *cough*

*cough* Iron Man 1 & 2 *cough*

*cough* Thor *cough*

 

[Hammy]

not enough M'Baku

M'Baku is easily the best part of Black Panther. Especially compared to T'Challa who, frankly, is kind of a piece of wood in his own movie. I don't know why this guy does most of the things he does. Duty, I suppose, but I don't find him very motivated or opinionated, and he's not particularly enjoyable or charismatic to be around. M'Baku on the other hand, I'd watch multiple movies about that guy. He was fun, and energetic, and more please.

 

[birdsandbats]

*makes a note to avoid mentioning the existence of franchises such as Star Wars, Star Trek and Alien to BNB lest the sheer lack of understanding melt his brain*

I specifically meant MCU movies here, I should have specified that. I am actually a big fan of both Star Wars and Star Trek and don't have problems with those. Guardians and the first act of Captain Marvel feel like they are shoving you into this world with no explanation of anything, making it really hard to understand. Star Wars, Star Trek, and many other sci-fi franchises put more effort into introducing you to their world rather than just shoving you in and hope you are okay.

 

[birdsandbats]

*cough* Avengers *cough*

*cough* First Avenger *cough*

*cough* Iron Man 1 & 2 *cough*

*cough* Thor *cough*

I feel like I should say here that Guardians 1 and Thor: TDW are the only MCU movies I did not enjoy. All the others I really did like.

That being said, I rank all 5 of those movies pretty low on the MCU scale, as you could see on my ranking. The Avengers is ruined by the third act. The first two are great, it's wonderful to see how all the characters interact, and Loki is a great villain. Then it gets to the third act, which is super boring. It's just the Avengers punching things for half an hour. Superhero movies need fight scenes. I'm not trying to say otherwise. But they should at least try to make these scenes interesting, which The Avengers did not even attempt to do.

First Avenger almost beats out The Incredible Hulk. But there is one thing I hate about this movie. The generic Hydra armies use lasers, and I hate that. I just can't look past that! A WWII movie with lasers is such a dumb idea I can't believe it got past the pitch meetings (they probably just said that lasers are tight). Imagine if Wonder Woman has lasers in it, for example. That movie would have been dumb. This one suffers from the same problem.

I've already said I don't particularly like Tony Stark. Did you know Stan Lee was specifically trying to write him as a superhero everyone would hate?

I don't like Thor in his first movie, either. He's a lot like Stark, really. Much too arrogant to be likable, and his friends are the most bland characters in the MCU. He gets more likable as a character after this movie, thankfully.

 

[Hammy]

I've already said I don't particularly like Tony Stark. Did you know Stan Lee was specifically trying to write him as a superhero everyone would hate?

I don't like Thor in his first movie, either. He's a lot like Stark, really. Much too arrogant to be likable, and his friends are the most bland characters in the MCU. He gets more likable as a character after this movie, thankfully.

My understanding is that Tony Stark was initially created in an attempt to make a millionaire character that even hippies of the 60s would sympathize with, but I could be mistaken. Or hey, might be one of those nuanced things. If the attempt was to make him unlikable, well, it hasn't worked on me at least, even in the initial comics.

It's interesting to me to hear this opinion on Thor, considering that I adore him in the first two films. He starts out arrogant and unbearable, true, but that's part of his arc. He's had everything handed to him for the longest time, and when that's taken away, he has to build himself up into a better man who truly cares and is willing to sacrifice for the people around him. It is similar to Tony, but Tony's arc has more to do with internal issues with guilt that I don't think are entirely resolved in the MCU. And then Ragnarok happened and just obliterated Thor's character from the word go, but I suppose if you didn't like the first couple movies, you wouldn't mind much.

Not to say you or anyone should change your opinions, I just find it interesting to hear what seems to be a fairly popular view on the first couple Thor movies. And I like complaining about Ragnarok even though that's gonna get me chased out of house, town, and country.

 

[birdsandbats]

My understanding is that Tony Stark was initially created in an attempt to make a millionaire character that even hippies of the 60s would sympathize with, but I could be mistaken. Or hey, might be one of those nuanced things. If the attempt was to make him unlikable, well, it hasn't worked on me at least, even in the initial comics.

It's interesting to me to hear this opinion on Thor, considering that I adore him in the first two films. He starts out arrogant and unbearable, true, but that's part of his arc. He's had everything handed to him for the longest time, and when that's taken away, he has to build himself up into a better man who truly cares and is willing to sacrifice for the people around him. It is similar to Tony, but Tony's arc has more to do with internal issues with guilt that I don't think are entirely resolved in the MCU. And then Ragnarok happened and just obliterated Thor's character from the word go, but I suppose if you didn't like the first couple movies, you wouldn't mind much.

Not to say you or anyone should change your opinions, I just find it interesting to hear what seems to be a fairly popular view on the first couple Thor movies. And I like complaining about Ragnarok even though that's gonna get me chased out of house, town, and country.

No, Tony was specifically made to be unlikable. Stan Lee thought he could sell a hero who everyone hated, so he made Iron Man. It sure worked.

 

[Coelacanth18]

I've already said I don't particularly like Tony Stark. Did you know Stan Lee was specifically trying to write him as a superhero everyone would hate?

My understanding is that Tony Stark was initially created in an attempt to make a millionaire character that even hippies of the 60s would sympathize with, but I could be mistaken. Or hey, might be one of those nuanced things. If the attempt was to make him unlikable, well, it hasn't worked on me at least, even in the initial comics.

No, Tony was specifically made to be unlikable. Stan Lee thought he could sell a hero who everyone hated, so he made Iron Man. It sure worked.

I feel that different people will verge on philosophies when it comes to liking/enjoying characters - some people like to see and watch characters that they personally like as people, that they identify with, that they want to root for. Personally, I often love watching characters that annoy or aggravate me, or that I would loathe if they were standing next to me - as long as the delivery and performance entertains or engages me in some way.

With that being said, Tony Stark fits the mold of someone that would personally aggravate me in real life and that I would never actually trust to be a superhero - or even a CEO of a major company, for that matter - but as a character his huge ego and attention-grabbing personality makes him a spectacle to watch. Some of this is good dialogue writing, but I think a lot of it is Downey Jr's portrayal of the character - it's one of the better (best?) casting jobs done within the MCU, which I think already does a very good job of casting actors well-suited for their roles.

 

[birdsandbats]

I feel that different people will verge on philosophies when it comes to liking/enjoying characters - some people like to see and watch characters that they personally like as people, that they identify with, that they want to root for. Personally, I often love watching characters that annoy or aggravate me, or that I would loathe if they were standing next to me - as long as the delivery and performance entertains or engages me in some way.

With that being said, Tony Stark fits the mold of someone that would personally aggravate me in real life and that I would never actually trust to be a superhero - or even a CEO of a major company, for that matter - but as a character his huge ego and attention-grabbing personality makes him a spectacle to watch. Some of this is good dialogue writing, but I think a lot of it is Downey Jr's portrayal of the character - it's one of the better (best?) casting jobs done within the MCU, which I think already does a very good job of casting actors well-suited for their roles.

Yes, I understand that different people want to see different things. But I personally like watching likable characters - ones I can identify with, ones I would trust to be heroes in real life. This is why I like heroes like Captain America and Black Panther but dislike Iron Man, early Thor, and Star Lord.

 

[TZDugong]

adult Groot just says the same thing over and over,

Well what else would you expect from a sentient tree!

However, I would disagree with you saying Groot has “no redeeming qualities”; I thought Groot had a pretty great mini-arc where he went from a selfish bounty hunter to selflessy saving the rest of the Guardians. I also thought the “we are Groot” line at the end was powerful for a character that only says 3 words in the rest of the movie.

Rocket makes too many bad decisions.

I don’t really see how this is a problem; is Rocket a flawed character? Yeah, but that’s fine. The way he overcomes and learns from his mistakes is far more interesting than an infallible or “perfect” character like Superman (or even Captain America to an extent).

I don't get the hate for The Incredible Hulk. either. By far the best Phase One movie.

I’d strongly disagree with this opinion.

For me, The Incredible Hulk doesn’t feel like an MCU movie, the style just feels completely different, and not in a good way. The actor for Bruce Banner was uhhh not good in the role, I’m glad they replaced him. The CGI is also extremely ugly, the end fight between Hulk and Abomination ... yikes.

It's interesting to me to hear this opinion on Thor, considering that I adore him in the first two films. He starts out arrogant and unbearable, true, but that's part of his arc. He's had everything handed to him for the longest time, and when that's taken away, he has to build himself up into a better man who truly cares and is willing to sacrifice for the people around him. It is similar to Tony, but Tony's arc has more to do with internal issues with guilt that I don't think are entirely resolved in the MCU. And then Ragnarok happened and just obliterated Thor's character from the word go, but I suppose if you didn't like the first couple movies, you wouldn't mind much.

I don’t actually disagree with this, even though I do in general dislike the first 2 Thor movies. Thor’s arc is pretty nice and I do like his character in these movies, it’s just that the rest movie is so dull and lifeless that I find it hard to sit through these movies in one sitting.

With that being said, Tony Stark fits the mold of someone that would personally aggravate me in real life and that I would never actually trust to be a superhero - or even a CEO of a major company, for that matter - but as a character his huge ego and attention-grabbing personality makes him a spectacle to watch. Some of this is good dialogue writing, but I think a lot of it is Downey Jr's portrayal of the character - it's one of the better (best?) casting jobs done within the MCU, which I think already does a very good job of casting actors well-suited for their roles.

I totally agree with this, he’s certainly one of, if not the, most entertaining characters in the MCU. I do think he works much better in the big team-up films than his own movies, as he plays off really nicely with other big personalities like Thor and Loki, or in some of the later films, Spider-Man and Doctor Strange.

 

[Hammy]

I don’t actually disagree with this, even though I do in general dislike the first 2 Thor movies. Thor’s arc is pretty nice and I do like his character in these movies, it’s just that the rest movie is so dull and lifeless that I find it hard to sit through these movies in one sitting.

I think what really sells it for me is the arcs of both Thor and Loki. Both of them go through a lot, in both 1 and less so in DW, but I do think DW still at least remains faithful to how those characters acted and were motivated, for all of that film's shortcomings. Another unpopular opinion of mine, but I do really enjoy Jane and Thor's relationship, moreso than basically any other MCU romance. I appreciate a girlfriend who's not constantly all "Myeh, myeh, why can't you be normal?" That dynamic isn't cute, it's not fresh, it's annoying and I don't like it, I just want them to mutually care for each other and respect one another's decisions and I'm on a tangent.

I totally agree with this, he’s certainly one of, if not the, most entertaining characters in the MCU. I do think he works much better in the big team-up films than his own movies, as he plays off really nicely with other big personalities like Thor and Loki, or in some of the later films, Spider-Man and Doctor Strange.

I'd say he's one of if not the most complex characters, at least in the MCU, The comics certainly have way more time to develop a wider cast, but the MCU put a lot of time and work into Tony, and RDJ's charisma definitely pulls its weight too. There's no character quite as deeply troubled as far as I can tell. Simultaneous bluster and confidence along with what seems to be a pretty deep-seated self-hatred and, because of that, self-destructiveness. Issues that never entirely get aired or resolved. I dunno, maybe I see too much of myself in the character, or I just was dissatisfied with Endgame, but point is, I agree overall. Tony has absolutely fantastic chemistry with nearly everyone he encounters. Bruce Banner, Steve Rogers, Stephen Strange, God I wish Bruce and Tony had been given more on-screen time together.