Haliaeetus
Well-Known Member
Not any zoo in Europe. Peking Zoo claimed once to have wild Bactrian Camels, I don't know if it's still the case.
Which camel species should most zoos keep?
- Thread starter La Cucaracha
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Haliaeetus
Well-Known Member
In France both species (Camel + Dromedary) are common, maybe the second species is more frequently seen. They are cheap and look "exotic" so many collections have them, regardless to their conservation value.
That comment is just false. Bactrian are significantly more common than Dromedary in the US (though Dromedary are not rare of course).
Here in Mexico dromedaries are quite common in zoos and Safari parks. Bactrian camels are much rarer. I have only seen them at Chapultepec and Leon zoo. Also many zoos and Safari parks have llamas. Guanacos are present but not as much as llamas. There no vicuña in Mexican zoos and I have never seen alpacas here. Both dromedaries and llamas were kept by Mexican circus until the law was passed that forbid all circus to have animals. Then the llamas and dromedaries went to zoos and Safari parks.
You're saying the comment is false yet you agreed with what I said. I think you may have misread it.
He's saying that the comment you were originally replying to (making the claim that "here in the United States, it's Bactrian camels who are uncommon in comparison to Dromedary camels. Be it in zoos or the private trade, you're a great deal more likely to encounter Dromedaries casually. You have to go looking if you want to see Bactrians") was false, not that your own comment was false
Maybe that's what's happening in California
I see them pretty often, especially outside AZA. I don't recall ever seeing much signage about wild camels, though. The tour guide at The Wilds didn't even mention them (and also didn't mention that the ones they had are domestic).Rosamond Gifford does have signage about wild camels, including mentioning the website for the Wild Camel Protection Foundation, but unfortunately it says there's only two species of camel. I didn't get the whole sign.
In the last four years (I didn't always track domestics before that), I've seen:
Bactrian 19 times - Animal Adventure Park, Cape May, Creation Kingdom, Familizoo, Franklin Park, Hovatter’s, Keystone Safari, Living Treasures Laurel Highlands, Metro Richmond, Parc Safari, Plumpton Park, Roger Williams, Rosamond Gifford, Safari Farm, Southwick, Toledo, Virginia Safari, Wilds, Zootastic
Dromedary 23 times - Animal Adventure Park, Briarwood Ranch, Bronx, Cape May, Claws N Paws, Creation Kingdom, Familizoo, Hovatter’s, Leesburg Animal Park, Lehigh Valley, Living Treasures Laurel Highlands, Living Treasures Moraine, Louisville, Metro Richmond, Natural Bridge Zoo, Parc Safari, Roer’s Safari, Safari Farm, Southwick’s, Virginia Safari, Wild Animal Park, Zoo Animalia, Zootastic
So of those, twelve have both species.
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La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
I've personally seen this distinction in Denver Zoo signage, but I'm not sure about any other facilities.
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
No, the question assumes most zoos that do keep camels will only keep one species.
However, I think that if a zoo can keep camels, it should. They can be displayed outdoors year round, they're easily recognized, and that can help educate people about one of the rarest mammals on earth. If that's not enough, why keep any charismatic megafauna at all?
Well for one thing, breeding them won’t directly help one of the rarest mammals on earth, the way it will with some other species.
Kalaw
Well-Known Member
Zoo Zurich in Switzerland keeps five of the six camel species kept in captivity (Dromedaries being the exception), with Alpacas, Llamas, Vicunas and Guanacos all kept in one row of exceptional paddocks, and Bactrians sharing a Middle Eastern hoofstock exhibit elsewhere in the zoo. At one point, London came close with Bactrians, Alpacas, multiple interesting breeds of Llama and Vicuna, but with the latter leaving in 2017 it is nothing all that noteworthy now. Seeing closely related but distinct species side-by-side is always fascinating, as you gradually begin to notice just how extreme some of the differences are compared to what you initially thought. And, in Zurich's case, the standard of exhibitry for the camels was also unusually high.
(this photo shows the Guanaco enclosure, but all barring the Bactrians had fairly similar exhibits)
As mentioned by several other UK members upthread, Dromedaries and Guanacos would be my preference, as they are the rarest in the nation. I have only ever seen the former at Beauval, and the latter at Paris and Zurich, so it would be great to see more of those. I would love to see Guanacos fill in the empty former Vicuna enclosure at London, although a return of the latter would be equally welcome.
(this photo shows the Guanaco enclosure, but all barring the Bactrians had fairly similar exhibits)
As mentioned by several other UK members upthread, Dromedaries and Guanacos would be my preference, as they are the rarest in the nation. I have only ever seen the former at Beauval, and the latter at Paris and Zurich, so it would be great to see more of those. I would love to see Guanacos fill in the empty former Vicuna enclosure at London, although a return of the latter would be equally welcome.
I know a few of AZA zoos were planning on importing Vicuna in ~2014 or so. IIRC LA Zoo was leading the import with Beardsley Zoo here in CT set for receive the first animals from Europe. They even had news publications talking about the import here in CT and the zoo gave a bts tour of the newly constructed indoor housing intended for both the Vicuna and Giant Anteater. In the end it never materialized, having fallen apart very last minute and then interest seemingly evaporated. At roughly the same point in time, however, Southwick's Zoo in MA imported a small herd from Canada (likely from Mountain View) and has bred them a couple times, though this herd seems to be shrinking all the same.
~Thylo
I remember seeing all 6 species of camelids at London Zoo's Camel House
Unfortunately, Southwick's website no longer lists them as having vicuña and on the Facebook page has no mentions of vicuña since 2021. A post in the Southwick's news thread from April of this year also mentions that the vicuña might be gone.
I'm not opposed to zoos keeping camels, but I don't necessarily think it is a species that belongs in *every* zoo. Zoos have limited space, so it's impossible to keep every species they could possibly want. I can also think of plenty of easily recognizable species that have strong conservation education messaging, and that northern zoos can display outside year-round. While it's great some zoos choose to highlight camels, I think it's just as great (if not better) for zoos to focus on other species fitting these same criteria you laid out.
If anything, however, I would like it if in the AZA some zoos opted to replace camels with other Asian ungulates, as that's a group of animals in which a lot of the programs are struggling due to lack of holders. White-lipped deer are one of my favorites, and are a really cool species, but Rosamond Gifford is now the only AZA holder of them, while Transcapian urial is down to only a handful of holders, and Bronx Zoo alone can be thanked for continuing to manage gaur (and are one of the few zoos still dedicated to Asian deer). I'd love a world where there's more dedication to a lot of the Asian ungulate programs, and the best way to reach that goal would be a strategic phase down of the massive Bactrian camel population.
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Indeed; me too. In the early days of the Cotton Terraces, the Camel House (now the Pygmy Hippo House) held llama, alpaca, vicuna, guanaco, dromedary and domestic Bactrian camel.
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
Ex situ captive breeding isn't the end all game of conservation. This sort of opinion is why people think giant pandas should go extinct.
Kalaw
Well-Known Member
Very interesting, I had no idea that their collection was once so extensive!
Where they all kept in one enclosure, and how much space was on offer for how many individuals? I struggle to see how the current Pygmy hippo enclosure is anywhere near big enough for six species of camel!
No, they weren't all kept together in one enclosure; the outside area was divided into smaller yards. And all six species were never outside simultaneously; some were on display outside whilst others were on exhibit inside and then they'd swap over. (Of course there would also be times when the camels would be giving rides and the llamas would be pulling carts.)
Certainly, by today's standards, the camelid accommodation would be considered cramped.
Um, I don't think anyone is saying Giant pandas should go extinct. There's a big difference between wanting zoos to focus on other species and saying you want one's extinction.