Which zoos still have pure Barbary lions?

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I think it was another zoo 'fad' that developed around the 1990's. Something new that would also provide fresh interest for visitors. Certainly Port Lympne used to make far more of them reputedly being 'Barbary' in the past and they were actively breeding them too- that seems to have finished as the current breeding pair of Lions have not been chosen with respect to continuing the Barbary line. More just 'Lions' now.

The problem is what happens to these Lions- they can't just be moved out and replaced with something more genuinly worthwhile.

Back in the 1990's I would give zoos the benefit of the doubt regarding this issue given how rudimentary the technology and how comparatively new genetic analysis was.

However, today I do think this "Barbary lion" business by zoos is best described as a fad.

Totally agree that there is a duty of care to animals currently kept.

I'm sure that as time goes on, and more of these zoo-mix animals reach the end of their lives, these spaces will be re-used for subspecies-specific animals. This has already happened at Shepreth; after their elderly zoo-mix tigers died they were replaced with two Sumatrans (mother and daughter) from Chessington.

Yes, certainly hope that this will happen as a trend in zoos.

 

[DDcorvus]

Although in lions it might be good to maintain the subspecies mix lions. The captive population of lions contains genes that are gone from wild-populations (including those of Barbary lions) and might be more genetically diverse than a lot of the wild populations. And the question is if the ecology and phenotype is diverse enough to keep this zoo-mix lions going to be used when needed. In an ideal situation you don't mix subspecies, but in the case of lions you need to consider if the ecology and phenotypes of a lot of lion populations is close enough to introduce zoo-mix genes into wild-populations if the situation calls for it.

 

[FBBird]

Although in lions it might be good to maintain the subspecies mix lions. The captive population of lions contains genes that are gone from wild-populations (including those of Barbary lions) and might be more genetically diverse than a lot of the wild populations. And the question is if the ecology and phenotype is diverse enough to keep this zoo-mix lions going to be used when needed. In an ideal situation you don't mix subspecies, but in the case of lions you need to consider if the ecology and phenotypes of a lot of lion populations is close enough to introduce zoo-mix genes into wild-populations if the situation calls for it.

Aren’t there genes from the extinct Cape Lion persisting in zoo mix populations?

 

[DDcorvus]

Aren’t there genes from the extinct Cape Lion persisting in zoo mix populations?

They went extinct pretty early (halfway the 19th century) and there weren't too many zoos around in Europe at that time. They have been reported in European zoos but the numbers were very small. Especially compared with Barbary lions, which was the subspecies readily available for most European zoos. So in theory it might, but it would surprise me.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Although in lions it might be good to maintain the subspecies mix lions. The captive population of lions contains genes that are gone from wild-populations (including those of Barbary lions) and might be more genetically diverse than a lot of the wild populations. And the question is if the ecology and phenotype is diverse enough to keep this zoo-mix lions going to be used when needed. In an ideal situation you don't mix subspecies, but in the case of lions you need to consider if the ecology and phenotypes of a lot of lion populations is close enough to introduce zoo-mix genes into wild-populations if the situation calls for it.

Out of curiosity under what circumstances / scenarios do you think zoo-mix lions would be of utility for conserving wild-populations ?

 

[DDcorvus]

Think about low genetic diversity and inbreeding in wild-populations. Your first option will be translocation of wild lions, but if that option is not viable anymore you could consider introducing captive genes into wild populations. With the current pressures on lions and the human population in Africa still expected to grow I can see that happening. For now it is not needed and the way to do it will be complicated and expensive, so it will not happen in the near future. But unless we drastically minimize our impact on the planet we will have to make a choice in the future to apply innovative and expensive conservation measures which include mixing subspecies or let lions go extinct in the wild.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Think about low genetic diversity and inbreeding in wild-populations. Your first option will be translocation of wild lions, but if that option is not viable anymore you could consider introducing captive genes into wild populations. With the current pressures on lions and the human population in Africa still expected to grow I can see that happening. For now it is not needed and the way to do it will be complicated and expensive, so it will not happen in the near future. But unless we drastically minimize our impact on the planet we will have to make a choice in the future to apply innovative and expensive conservation measures which include mixing subspecies or let lions go extinct in the wild.

Yes, I can see something like that being used out of necessity too but I do think translocation wherever and whenever possible is a far better management strategy.

Are you involved in lion conservation ?

 

[DDcorvus]

Yes, I can see something like that being used out of necessity too but I do think translocation wherever and whenever possible is a far better management strategy.

Are you involved in lion conservation ?

Of course translocation is preferable, but as things are going it might needs to be supported with other tools where the ex-situ population will play a role. It makes lions an interesting programme to manage as the zoo mix lions might be more valuable than the subspecies pure ones.

I would exclude the Asiatic lions from this. Although if you consider Barbary lions part of the same subspecies as the Indian population and considering the lack of genetic diversity of those animals you could argue otherwise if not for political processes.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Of course translocation is preferable, but as things are going it might needs to be supported with other tools where the ex-situ population will play a role. It makes lions an interesting programme to manage as the zoo mix lions might be more valuable than the subspecies pure ones.

I would exclude the Asiatic lions from this. Although if you consider Barbary lions part of the same subspecies as the Indian population and considering the lack of genetic diversity of those animals you could argue otherwise if not for political processes.

Yes, true, it is certainly a given that wild populations are going to continue to suffer habitat loss during this century and this will dramatically shrink the amount of sites where translocation could be applied.

Regarding the Asiatic lion I think the imperative should be translocation of individuals from the Gir / Gujarat to other states of India with suitable habitat remaining but bureaucratic intransigence seems to be the primary obstacle to achieving that.