ZSL Whipsnade Zoo Whipsnade

[taun]

Thanks for that,
Does anyone here know a zoo that keeps many bears in the same exhibit? like 5 or so?
Because bears only stay together when mating, or occasionally siblings stay together through life. There was this amateur video i watched about different zoo and an exhibit had many brown bears.

South lakes I believe have 5 bears (1.4) and have just one exhibit, although am not sure if they all have access at the same time (someone mentioned on here that they are only trying to breed from two of the females, so the other two females my not have access at the same time)

 

[dragon(ele)nerd]

South lakes I believe have 5 bears (1.4) and have just one exhibit, although am not sure if they all have access at the same time (someone mentioned on here that they are only trying to breed from two of the females, so the other two females my not have access at the same time)

Do you know if any of the females are siblings?
There is a possiblity that the bears are split because of clashes.

 

[johnstoni]

Frankly, let us say we disagree on the subject. I do not condone the tactics, nor criticism of PETA or any other group which have as their single most important objective the exclusion of all wild animals from captivity and extinction of zoos in general. Their view that all wildlife should be in the natural world to be free and live the simple life is both elitist, tunnel-vision borne and carries no salt of truth in it.

For their general arguement's sake: in general most protected areas in the natural world function just as zoos, where just their area of occupancy is more impressive and where their continued survival is mostly not even assured. To then give us (animal libbers that is) the public a choice between education and conservation by recreation at public zoos or by visiting the wide open spaces of the natural world is equally deranged and elitist (only the happy few like myself can ever dream of doing that).

So, we are left with zoos as a public exhibition of wild fauna and flora and centres from which conservation action can be directed effectively through their knowledge and experience of maintaining wild animal and plant populations in captivity. Conditions at zoos in general have improved enormously since even the 1970's, but that can hardly be written on the credit of a few misbehaving animal right's followers (they do not have the experience, scientific knowledge or understanding of the real needs of bears, gorillas, giraffes, rhinos, elephants or any other type of zoo animal for that matter.

I could of course go on endlessly. F.i. the human dimensions of biodiversity loss and how human populations by black earth economics, poverty amelioration in the third world through improved health care and access to clean water as opposed to development through education is driving the extinction crisis and how this than affects the tasks zoos and protected areas worldwide have to save species from extinction and how animal libbers do not help that cause one single inch), but I will leave it at that.

Aw, Jelle, I know what you're saying, but I don't know if you saw many elephant, bear, or great ape facilities in British zoos in the early 1980's, but they weren't really a reflection of the real needs of those animals. As misguided as they can be, the work of some animal rights organisations did at least help push some zoos in the right direction. If you like, you can think of them as unqualified and just laypeople, in which case maybe you could try to see it as a lucky coincidence, but whatever way it happened, there certainly was a seismic shift in public opinion by the end of the decade, and I think that animals in UK zoos have benefited greatly from it, from enrichment programmes to better enclosures. Of course, some of these forces were certainly driven by zoos themselves, but not all.

Why is it okay for us on this forum to make criticisms of the many zoological collections we support and take inspiration from? Sure, we don't have an agenda for captivity to end, that is a big difference, but in reality that will never happen anyway, so to the animal rights lobby, I say 'do your worst!', as it always makes for better zoos.

The two should not be totally divorced. We are the middle ground in many ways. I used to live in Brighton, where an aquarium got planning permission to build seal and otter pools in the sunken entrance garden next to a busy roundabout and several nightclubs. It was a tiny space and would have been highly stressful for the animals. I'm glad about the vehement protests that followed, and the coincidental subsequent dropping of the plans by the aquarium. I do not care that they may be anti-captivity, I feel there is a qualitative difference in how appropriate a space may be for certain species.

It is dangerous to give carte blanche to zoological institutions to do whatever they choose, we should be engaging with and educating protest groups, not alienating ourselves from them.

 

[johnstoni]

And to clarify - some users seem to get chronology wrong. Zoos themselves (1980s?) realised that bears are kept in bad exhibits, then (1990s) came EU zoo regulation. Zoo program made animal rights groups to jump on the bandwagon, not opposite. Indian bear sanctuaries is run by small, local societies. I am not aware of any action of PETA there.

In fact, zoocheck were carrying out studies into the behavioural abnormalities of captive bears in the UK in the early to mid-1980s. There followed greater media interest into the lives of some of the polar bears in the UK, especially bristol's and Londons/Dudley's animals.

 

[Jurek7]

Thanks for that,
Does anyone here know a zoo that keeps many bears in the same exhibit? like 5 or so?

It is common in Europe for at least brown and polar bears. Typically 1 male + more females. I personally think it is usually not a good idea, because bears often start pacing or spend hours in corners of exhibits to avoid each other.

 

[Jurek7]

In fact, zoocheck were carrying out studies into the behavioural abnormalities of captive bears in the UK in the early to mid-1980s.

Well, in continental Europe it was a new generation of zoologists who first got interested...

 

[Pertinax]

Do you know if any of the females are siblings?
There is a possiblity that the bears are split because of clashes.

The 1.4 Spectacled Bears at South Lakes are two pairs of sisters plus an unrelated male. I belive all five share an enclosure.

Regarding other bears being kept in large groups- it was common in some zoos in the past- often six or seven or more in one enclosure. Some longtime ago Flamingo Park zoo(Yorkshire) even had a mixed exhibit of Polar, Brown, Himalayan and Sun Bears all living together...

 

[dragon(ele)nerd]

It is common in Europe for at least brown and polar bears. Typically 1 male + more females. I personally think it is usually not a good idea, because bears often start pacing or spend hours in corners of exhibits to avoid each other.

I personally don't think this is a good idea either, bears are usually solitary and even females physically fight each sometimes for the protection of their own cubs,

 

[dragon(ele)nerd]

The 1.4 Spectacled Bears at South Lakes are two pairs of sisters plus an unrelated male. I belive all five share an enclosure.

Regarding other bears being kept in large groups- it was common in some zoos in the past- often six or seven or more in one enclosure. Some longtime ago Flamingo Park zoo(Yorkshire) even had a mixed exhibit of Polar, Brown, Himalayan and Sun Bears all living together...

Does south lakes have any intention in the future to send the bears to other zoos? Or import other bears?
It is surpising how much we learn about other species, its not only us but apparently the royal asian elephant of the Kerala Thrissur Paramekkavu and Thiruvambadi ( the rival groups in Thrissur pooram) can have up to the english vocabulary of a 12 year old child!
( elephants rule! 大象统治！)

 

[johnstoni]

Windsor Safari Park introduced bears in around 1986, and they were a mixed group of brown and black bears, the black bears didn't stay too long, by the time windsor closed less that 10 years later there were 2 maybe 3 brown bears left.

Woburn at one point had ten or eleven American Black bears.

Didn't Loch Lochmond bear park have a large mixed group?

I believe that Heythrop mixes its polar, black and brown bears, can anyone confirm this?

Before they ceased exhibiting the species, several UK zoos kept their Polar bears in trios, namely Belfast, Glasgow, and Bristol.

 

[James27]

Yeah, Heythrop does keep it's polar bear and black bear together in the same enclosure. Not sure if they have any brown bears though...
Doesn't Berlin zoo mix it's sloth bears with the other bear species? I've been three times and never seen it done, but someone mentioned it before I think. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Jurek7]

Berlin only mixes brown bears and Arctic wolves. Sloth bears have own small rock platform.

Mixed sloth bears I know of are with rhesus in Leipzig and with assamese macaques in Beekse Bergen.

 

[kiang]

The sloth bears at Beekse Bergen killed and ate a macaque in full view of the public and i think they may be separated now

 

[dragon(ele)nerd]

Does anyone here think that it is sutiable to keep several bears in the same exhibit?
I don't

 

[Jurek7]

This weekend they were together.

 

[zoogiraffe]

Windsor Safari Park introduced bears in around 1986, and they were a mixed group of brown and black bears, the black bears didn't stay too long, by the time windsor closed less that 10 years later there were 2 maybe 3 brown bears left.

Woburn at one point had ten or eleven American Black bears.

Didn't Loch Lochmond bear park have a large mixed group?

I believe that Heythrop mixes its polar, black and brown bears, can anyone confirm this?

Before they ceased exhibiting the species, several UK zoos kept their Polar bears in trios, namely Belfast, Glasgow, and Bristol.

Heythrop does indeed keep its Polar and Asiatic Black Bear together and when its young Brown Bear comes out of quarantine it will go in their as well.

 

[johnstoni]

Does anyone here think that it is sutiable to keep several bears in the same exhibit?
I don't

It depends on their personalities, on the exhibit choices the animals can make, and on the amount of distance they are able to put between eachother. At Glasgow, for a while, the Asiatic black bears had one of the best enclosures I had seen. It was possible to nest in the metal baskets high up in the house, or virtually disappear into the vegetation down the hill. So any interaction or proximity between the animals is more of a choice that way. Even aggression or the need to strategise avoidance behaviour can be mentally beneficial to a captive animal, despite the behaviour appearing to be negative, as long as there is sufficient room to carry out that behaviour. You run into problems when the individuals cannot strategise or make choices and then start to exhibit stress-related behaviour or abnormal, vacant, pacing. Even adult polar bears will 'play' together in the water in captive environments. The difficulty is inadequate facilities to separate animals to provide some respite.

The bears at Woburn, and to some extent dartmoor would be less stimulated I feel if kept singly, or without other species. Does anyone know why they stopped keeping red foxes with the brown bears at Dartmoor? Possibly it wasn't so beneficial for the foxes. I have not been to South Lakes, but wonder if the enclosure is a little 'busy' with tapir, otter and coati all sharing the space with five adult spectacled bears?

 

[johnstoni]

Heythrop does indeed keep its Polar and Asiatic Black Bear together and when its young Brown Bear comes out of quarantine it will go in their as well.

Does anyone know of any photos of Heythop's bears? As 'trained' animals, I take it staff can go in with them? I am almost inclined to think they are probably in better shape mentally if there is human contact.

 

[Pertinax]

I have not been to South Lakes, but wonder if the enclosure is a little 'busy' with tapir, otter and coati all sharing the space with five adult spectacled bears?

Nor have I.. but I similarly wonder about their 'mixed' exhibits, which sound good but are the animals actually more stressed by being kept together like this? There is a photo on their website of a Pygmy hippo and Mandrill- the hippo is threat yawning. Happy together?

 

[Pertinax]

bear enclosures.

I reckon Whipsnade's Bear enclosure, though old, is still about as good as they come in the UK. Spacious and with plenty of vegetation, and I think only three bears using it so not too crowded and they can retreat from each other. This seems to be an early exhibit that has lasted well with very little renovation..