Who Wants To Work With Animals?

RatioTile said:
Also, it's difficult to assume people want to have children in this day and age, especially in developed nations during a recession and with young people pessimistic about the future of the world and society.
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Good point, I do think it is a growing socio-cultural trend for young people to not want to have children due to these fears regarding the future and the economy.

To be honest I can only see this as continuing to grow in the coming decades as the s*** hits the fan in terms of climate change and environmental and economic conditions worsen.
 
RatioTile said:
Also, it's difficult to assume people want to have children in this day and age, especially in developed nations during a recession and with young people pessimistic about the future of the world and society.
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Given that the global human population is still growing, I somehow doubt that this decision of a few 1st World pessimists has the impact Twitter and other social media outputs want to convey. It might just be anecdotical evidence, but the great majority of my friends, family, acquaintances, colleagues etc. has reproduced or is reproducing. Often due to many of the women hearing their biological clock click louder and louder when approaching and surpassing 30. And I see more and more people deciding to have kids despite the uncertainty, as if "Now or Never".
 
Batto said:
Given that the global human population is still growing, I somehow doubt that this decision of a few 1st World pessimists has the impact Twitter and other social media outputs want to convey. It might just be anecdotical evidence, but the great majority of my friends, family, acquaintances, colleagues etc. has reproduced or is reproducing. Often due to many of the women hearing their biological clock click louder and louder when approaching and surpassing 30. And I see more and more people deciding to have kids despite the uncertainty, as if "Now or Never".
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I'm curious though what are your personal views on human overpopulation / population growth ?
 
Batto said:
One, if not the mother of most of the current problems.
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So you concede that humans somehow overcoming the biological imperative to breed through individual choices would ultimately be a good thing ?

Personally I believe it would be a very positive development but then again we are by no means a rational / wise species as much as we like to pretend we are.

I think that as you've said a lot of people do feel the ticking of the biological clock and the need to procreate strongly and this ultimately will win out for a lot of people but perhaps a significant portion of the human population will choose to remain childless for ethical reasons or just lifestyle choices.
 
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Most of my life I've planned graduating in biological sciences, as naturally I'm fairly fond of learning about even its non-zoology subjects, such as biochem, genetics and plant physiology. Accordingly, what I worry most about isn't whether I'm going to be able to memorize the contents for the grades or not, but if I'm going to be able to make a good use of such knowledge rather than being a mere "armchair doctor". Biology is so broad that even its postgraduations include an array of abilities that I would hardly be able to apply it to my day-to-day work even for once (in comparison to other knowledge areas, since no graduation is free from that and to which degree depends highly on the student as well), and assimilating useless information for bookish reasons is something that I already do without university. Plus, to be publishing papers constantly enough to make a living out of it seems to demand more creativity and dedication to hardwork than I deem myself to have, and the full-time licence (teacher) route never seemed like a viable option for me.

With that in mind, I'm enrolling for veterinary medicine in the national exams this year. Partially due to Covid-19, I may be able to study enough to get a place at a good university (brazilian public school education level is scheisse, so less time spent with school simply means more time to homestudy). The only expectation I have is to try as hard as possible to insert myself in the in the wild animal area as time passes, no idea about which (if any) branch to follow though, whether delineated by a taxonomical, anatomical or other focus.

Even if I end up with a profession I've never imagined applying to, I just hope to leave it better than I found it. And some of my statements probably reveal somewhat naive views on life, so I'm sorry for that.

RatioTile said:
Also, it's difficult to assume people want to have children in this day and age, especially in developed nations during a recession and with young people pessimistic about the future of the world and society.
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It's also difficult to assume that all children are planned :p
 
FelipeDBKO said:
With that in mind, I'm enrolling for veterinary medicine
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Good luck. Veterinary medicine is one of the financially least rewarding academic studies. And the one with the highest suicide rates in many countries. It's telling that many fellow veterinarians are glad if their children do not become vets.

And I'm surprised you managed to smuggle a German swear word past the admins. ;)
 
Batto said:
Sure; but to be brutally honest: the decision of a few hipsters in NYC or Berlin not to reproduce (thanks God for that) won't change the average lady in Chad or Mali to give birth to the equivalent of volleyball teams.
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Well I would rather that hipsters didn't reproduce anyway lol :D so that isn't any great loss as far as I'm concerned.

I agree , but perhaps access to education ( though I realize achieving that in the countries you mentioned is fraught with challenges) would as there seems to be a correlation between this and smaller family sizes and births.
 
Batto said:
Not if you block that education via religion, "traditions" and nationalism.
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Yes, that is what I was referring to as the inherent challenges in my edited comment above.

Also, lets not forget that these countries will continue to bear the brunt of extreme climate change which will continue to cause challenges to food and water security which will in turn fuel religious and secretarian conflict which will worsen the problem.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Yes, that is what I was referring to as the inherent challenges in my edited comment above.

Also, lets not forget that these countries will continue to bear the brunt of extreme climate change which will continue to cause challenges to food and water security which will in turn fuel religious and secretarian conflict which will worsen the problem.
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I’m somewhat skeptical of the higher population growth estimates for this century for this reason. I think the revised estimates of a peak and then a decline (although still at a level higher than today’s population) over the course of this century makes more sense.

If food security becomes a limiting factor then populations won’t grow. Unfortunately a lot of people born will die from hunger, then.

World Population Could Peak Decades Ahead of U.N. Forecast, Study Asserts
 
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RatioTile said:
I’m somewhat skeptical of the higher population growth estimates for this century for this reason. I think the revised estimates of a peak and then a decline (although still at a level higher than today’s population) over the course of this century makes more sense.

If food security becomes a limiting factor then populations won’t grow. Unfortunately a lot of people born will die from hunger, then.

World Population Could Peak Decades Ahead of U.N. Forecast, Study Asserts
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I've heard that it will peak and then decline and that this and a kind of societal improvement in womens education in many parts of the world leading to fewer children is predicted to level out the population. I mean it makes sense and of course it may be right but then the environmental tipping points we are reaching have to be figured into the equation.
 
Batto said:
Good luck. Veterinary medicine is one of the financially least rewarding academic studies. And the one with the highest suicide rates in many countries. It's telling that many fellow veterinarians are glad if their children do not become vets.

And I'm surprised you managed to smuggle a German swear word past the admins. ;)
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I get that you are being cautionary and trying to make @FelipeDBKO make an informed decision with his life choice but don't you think that you are being over pessimistic ?

I know plenty of vets here in Brazil who work very successfully with both domestic animals and wildlife and none of them are particularly in the s*** in financial terms and certainly not to the level that biologists / conservationists are.

Suicide rates are rising in many different fields of the life and social sciences (there was a very high profile suicide at a prodigious conservation research institute in the UK connected with systemic mobbing last year that even made international news). You could also argue that suicide levels are rising in general within society and globally too due in part to the pandemic and subsequent unemployment levels and a mental health crisis.

Moreover, you could also argue that most academic studies in general are not very rewarding either intellectually or financially anymore as education standards continue to slip and academia becomes more and more of a cultlike echo chamber and irrelevant. Another argument would be that university in itself is mostly a profit driven business hugely overrated that is a waste of time and money and I would largely agree with you.

However, we do have a very strong and urgent need for vets and particularly here in Brazil and specifically within the field of conservation and the prospects are not nearly as bleak as you suggest they are. I can introduce Felipe to several of my colleagues who are vets and he will hopefully see this and maybe even get some opportunities for experience.
 
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It'll be interesting to see how outreach programs change after COVID-19 is over. (Whenever that'll be.)
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
In what sense ?

Outreach continues as usual for most conservation NGO's and zoos but is conducted primarily via social media and blogs etc.
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Many outreach organizations are struggling to make ends meet. Virtual programs aren't reliable. They're not frequent and companies don't charge as much for them as they would for an in-person program.

I've seen several companies close due to the lack of funding, with other facilities having to downsize their collections to get some extra cash.

Some organizations have been able to start doing in-person programs again, but who knows how long it'll last before they have to quarantine again.
 
EsserWarrior said:
Many outreach organizations are struggling to make ends meet. Virtual programs aren't reliable. They're not frequent and companies don't charge as much for them as they would for an in-person program.

I've seen several companies close due to the lack of funding, with other facilities having to downsize their collections to get some extra cash.

Some organizations have been able to start doing in-person programs again, but who knows how long it'll last before they have to quarantine again.
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Yes, I agree , everything is difficult right now but organizations are rising to meet these challenges so there is reason for hope.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
but don't you think that you are being over pessimistic ?
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No. Are you a vet? If not, you're lacking the true insight to tell me about the profession and its problems. Sorry to be so blunt, but by now, you might have guessed what I'm doing for a living, which greatly influences my perspective on this matter.
Take a closer look at the suicide rate, the study requirements of veterinary medicine, the wortking conditions, the social significance and the general economic situation of vets in comparison to their closest "relatives", human medicine practitioners, the current development of the profession (hint: Mars and Nestlé) etc. etc. and you might understand my point. A friend and former colleague of mine happens to be a Brazilian vet, and according to her, the situation for vets isn't as peachy as you're depicting it here. A "need for wildlife vets" doesn't automatically mean fair payment and good working conditions in comparison to the skills, effort and education they're bringing to the table. Any more lengthy objections, you can send me via PM.
 
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Batto said:
No. Are you a vet? If not, you're lacking the true insight to tell me about the profession and its problems. Sorry to be so blunt, but by now, you might have guessed what I'm doing for a living, which greatly influences my perspective on this matter.
Take a closer look at the suicide rate, the study requirements of veterinary medicine, the wortking conditions, the social significance and the general economic situation of vets in comparison to their closest "relatives", human medicine practitioners, the current development of the profession (hint: Mars and Nestlé) etc. etc. and you might understand my point. A friend and former colleague of mine happens to be a Brazilian vet, and according to her, the situation for vets isn't as peachy as you're depicting it here. A "need for wildlife vets" doesn't automatically mean fair payment and good working conditions in comparison to the skills, effort and education they're bringing to the table. Any more lengthy objections, you can send me via PM.
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Don't worry , I respect your Teutonic bluntness as always but though I usually I agree with it on this thread I don't and find it too reductive :p.

No I'm not a vet, but as I've already mentioned most of my friends and colleagues are in fact vets in Brazil who work with both wildlife and domestic animals and are involved in conservation interventions some of which would really suprise you ;). None of them would describe their work as "peachy" and actually neither did I but I did say that it isn't quite as dire as you suggested.

As my significant other is a doctor here in Brazil I do understand that there is a difference between vets and human medicine practitioners in terms of social standing and wages but then again there are a lot of similarities too in terms of rates of depression and suicide here of medical students and lack of decent working conditions (the health system is falling apart, the pandemic and structural / organizational issues).

No, it doesn't necessarily guarantee these things but then again work with wildlife never really does as it is a vocation rather than a gravy train and this hasn't stopped me and you rolling with these punches and pursuing this career has it ? so why wouldn't it be the same with others? Amor fati and all that

Sure, we can PM , I just wanted to reply first.
 
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