Pretty sure it was the Bronx, using geographically appropriate Blue-winged Geese. It was said that Geladas wouldn't bother the geese. I'm afraid I don't know what happened, as while I work with BW Geese, we don't have Geladas
Worst Mixed-Species Combinations?
- Thread starter Emanuel Theodorus
- Start date
Here:
Doesn't look like a misquote to me.
That wasn't so much a misquote, more just a poorly worded/slightly hyperbolic point on my part. I don't believe you think *all* risks should be avoided, but you certainly said (or at least implied) that *some* or *many* risks should because of the optics. What I was saying is that I don't agree that zoos should avoid doing things because of how it could be spun by anti-zoo groups. Avoid them for husbandry reasons, sure - I don't want animals to die unnecessarily either - but I think that some risks are worth taking for the animals' sake (refer to my okapi-antelope example).
I don't actually disagree that some mixed-species combinations were a result of poor husbandry - I have no trouble believing *some* of them were. I do disagree with you that just because a mixed-species combo looks bad on paper to you means that it was done without care or foresight, which is what your italicized statements imply. The jackal-chimpanzee example stated that precautions were taken in the exhibit design, and that the behavior of the jackals initially shifted so that it was not an issue. I don't disagree with you about it being a bad decision, but to say they it was done with a blase attitude feels disingenuous.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
It does to me.
That is your opinion - I don't agree with you.
I did not say it looked bad to me, I said it looked bad to others (including potentially anti-zoo arguments) - so another misquote...
Not sure this is getting us very far, so I'll sign off now.
That’s because that’s my point. Even professionals make mistakes, that’s what makes them more experienced. You are twisting my point right here. My advice is to say no more, and move on.
Are you aware that you're contradicting yourself a bit?
j/k
However, this doesn't mean that these people take grave matters, such as dying animals, lightly.
I really appreciate you @Andrew Swales and your input and I think that we're actually on the very same page. However, it appears we've ended up in a pointless, deadlocked argument, or as @lowland anoa correctly stated:
So my personal impression of you being bitter is wrong? Ok, my bad. Then what about
This kinda reminds me of the Rick James sketch by Dave Chapelle
j/kOnce again: neither I nor the majority of ZooChatters do support the senseless "waste" of zoo animals. As for "amusement": some people cope with humor when faced with absurdity and cruelty. Jewish humor is a good example for that.
I really appreciate you @Andrew Swales and your input and I think that we're actually on the very same page. However, it appears we've ended up in a pointless, deadlocked argument, or as @lowland anoa correctly stated:
What about leaving it there?
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That doesn't make it a good idea. Flight restricted cranes are always going to be at the mercy of playful or aggressive hoofstock. To me, this is birds as wallpaper rather than animals in their own right.
Artis Zoo had Gorillas mixed with Meerkats back in 2015 as well as an exhibit with penguins and seals sharing it.
Gorillas and Meekats might just be OK. Seals and penguins will end in tears eventually, IMHO, when the seals work out that eating a penguin is like eating a lot of fish at once. And no, this isn't funny.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
It is interesting to see the responses my opinion has produced. Please go back through this thread and just look at the comments and examples... So many of these 'experiments' have either been refuted by others (not me) or are described in the past tense, presumably because the they have been discontinued. If for example you know something was done in 2015, but is no longer practiced, it would be very relevant to ask the people who know and find out why before using the example to support an argument. I didn't bother to watch the videos, so apologise if I missed something pertinent.
The Gorilla - meerkat mix is a very successful one at Artis and has been there for at least 10 years now. The Penguin - Sea lion mix doesn't exist anymore fortunately...
I didn't state my opinion on it, just that it's common. Most of the ones I can think of are large enough that they don't really go near one another. The only one I've spoken to keepers about, at ZooAmerica, the cranes are the ones that are pushy and can be aggressive.
It is common, Marabous are also regularly seen mixed with hoofstock. Cranes in particular have the reputation of being aggressive, but they're no match for most hoofstock they get mixed with. If either party gets hurt it's almost always the birds. The AZA does now recommend not mixing cranes, storks, and vultures with large hoofstock, but many facilities still do with varying levels of success.
These are the ones I could think of near(ish) me:
ZooAmerica: Pronghorn and sandhill crane
Maryland Zoo: Sitatunga, northern ground hornbill, and black crowned crane
- Addra gazelle, greater kudu, and saddle-billed stork.
Philly: Mhorr gazelle, red river hog, and saddle-billed stork
Metro Richmond: Giraffe, bongo, greater kudu, stanley crane, crowned crane, and barnacled goose
- Giant anteater, eastern white pelican, sarus crane
- Grant's gazelle, white stork, stanley crane
- Llama, crowned crane
DC: Dama gazelle, scimitar-horned oryx, ruppell's griffon vulture
Bronx: Sitatunga, crowned crane, marabou
The one other marabou I can think of around here would be Richmond's, which is in a fenced area by itself on the train ride.
Several years ago I read a piece about the EAZA Marabu breeding programme. The coordinator wrote that marabus experience very high mortality when kept pioned/wing-clipped on hoofstock paddocks, and that they tried to encourage zoos to keep them in aviaries instead. It was noted that many marabus died when they tried to protect a nest or a partner. A marabu may seem almost fearless when defending a nest, but when flightless their courage is no match against the trampling hooves of a zebra or eland.
I wonder what happened.......I heard anecdotally that the Penguins didn't seem to go in the water much.
As a bit of a side issue, it seems that some American zoos still follow the surely outdated practice of having flight restricted vultures. I believe EAZA no longer finds this acceptable? Certainly some keading UK zoos are moving away from flight restriction of anything. Imho this makes it more difficult to keep some species, geese come to mind as it is hard to net over sufficiently large areas to provide grazing.
I'm not sure. Most of the ones I see are turkey vultures and black vultures, which are the two local species, so they're usually injured wild birds that can't be released. I would assume the Ruppell's at DC has clipped wings because it's open air. Going through others I remember:
(roof meaning any sort of cover/completely caged so they can fly)
Maryland - Lappet-faced, no roof
Bronx - King Vulture, roof
Dallas - White-backed vulture, hooded vulture, and palm-nut vulture share an enclosure with a roof, king vulture and another hooded vulture have roofs, black vulture doesn't have a roof