Yorkshire Wildlife Park YWP Project Polar

Shirokuma said:
"I know something you don't know" yawn.
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Actually I don't know that another place is getting them,but given the numbers that are held within the UK,at present all of the holding collections are at or very near to capacity,so something has got to give!

But thanks for jumping in and assuming I did!!!!!!!!!!
 
Brum said:
I'm sure you're right but maybe Knowsley would also be another good northern collection that would be suitable?
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You're possibly right, though i've never been there, i hadn't thought of Knowsley, i was more worried a certain other zoo was trying for them!!
Anyway as this thread is about the excellent return of Polar Bears to England, i wont comment further on the indian rhino- the bears will definitely make YWP a must to visit for me, the rhinos wouldn't as i'm a Whipsnade regular.
 
Are there many spare polar bears in the EEP? I thought HWP had been waiting on a female for quite a long time? Or are they now waiting for the boys to be old enough for breeding before acquiring one?

The plans look good, although I do hope the 10 acres is just for exhibits and its still 15 overall, as that will make all the exhibits a good size and they should remain so for a long time into the future. Looks like it will eventually be a great set up for breeding.
 
Tunanta said:
Are there many spare polar bears in the EEP? I thought HWP had been waiting on a female for quite a long time? Or are they now waiting for the boys to be old enough for breeding before acquiring one?
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The latter is the case, I believe - it certainly still was the case in July 2012 when I last visited HWP, and was told they were waiting for their two males to get a few more years on them. I rather got the impression that once they are ready to bring a female in, they will not have too much trouble sourcing one.
 
EEP has now too many young subadult male polar bears (but young females are still in high demand). For example, Nurnberg had to sent their 2 male cubs to Warszawa this year, into an old concrete grotto exhibit. Warszawa had not even been looking for new polar bears. But there was conflict in Nurnberg and those 2 males couldn´t stay any longer and there was no better place available/interested. Some zoos are already thinking to temporary stop breeding because they fear their offspring would land in really substandart enclosures or even in China.
 
the only concern I would have looking at the artist impression is that you will be looking down into the bears rather than level or looking up, I assume the incline is part of the exhibit, but will the beares be able to utilize it I think it may be hot wired to stop them getting up to -what i take -are the visitor paths.
Over all though it looks a fantastic display area, and better than the cliffs/snow displays we usually associate with captive bears. but i hope they have raised ares so the bears can see out as well.
 
Jana said:
EEP has now too many young subadult male polar bears (but young females are still in high demand). For example, Nurnberg had to sent their 2 male cubs to Warszawa this year, into an old concrete grotto exhibit. Warszawa had not even been looking for new polar bears. But there was conflict in Nurnberg and those 2 males couldn´t stay any longer and there was no better place available/interested. Some zoos are already thinking to temporary stop breeding because they fear their offspring would land in really substandart enclosures or even in China.
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I think you make a good point - over-breeding could eventually become a problem again, as it was in the past, which as you say could quite easily result in animals being placed in inadequate locations. I think this time around, the breeding and management of the Polars should in theory be much more controlled (hopefully), though of course surplus males will possibly always be produced. Whether the zoos involved would take the controversial decision to euthanase surplus young males or not is questionable. The situation always used to be that breeding was allowed in order that cute cubs were produced in order to attract the public, BUT when those cute cubs grew they then became a big problem. I am sure that in some cases this issue would occur once again!?
 
dean said:
the only concern I would have looking at the artist impression is that you will be looking down into the bears rather than level or looking up
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The artist's impression certainly gives that er... impression although a member of staff said they would be like the lion enclosures that you would be on a level with them.
 
Morelia zoo is not a prison and Michoacan does not have tropical temperatures except on very hot days, but i suppose all objectivity is lost in this cases. I do think that Yupi will be better in another climate, but all these streotypes about mexico in that article sound very racist to me.
 
Nanook said:
I don`t like the idea of naming the enclosure after the Sunday Mirror!!
I know they are fund-raising and publicising it but even so what a ridiculous name for a zoo enclosure especially of this calibre.
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Agree entirely. The zoo should think very carefully about what associations they have and its impact on their brand and reputation.
 
carlos77 said:
Morelia zoo is not a prison and Michoacan does not have tropical temperatures except on very hot days, but i suppose all objectivity is lost in this cases. I do think that Yupi will be better in another climate, but all these streotypes about mexico in that article sound very racist to me.
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I tend to agree here.

Also, I would like some quid pro quo as opposed to an one-sided transfer (it feels more like .. an extraction), Morelia Zoo is not a * bad * zoo, you know. It would be so much the better if the YWP gave something back (assistance, training ops … you can think of something to do can't you?). Besides, EAZA has a relationship with ALPZA ...
 
carlos77 said:
Morelia zoo is not a prison and Michoacan does not have tropical temperatures except on very hot days, but i suppose all objectivity is lost in this cases. I do think that Yupi will be better in another climate, but all these streotypes about mexico in that article sound very racist to me.
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Calm down. The point here is simple - the Polar Bear is not suited to the climate full stop, it doesn`t matter what you do with the enclosure, training or whatever, it will not change the fact that such a species cannot tolerate that type of heat. Nothing to do with the zoo itself or racism or whatever rubbish you come up with. You need to understand the species requirements.
 
I have to agree with carlos77. The YWP campaign leaves sour taste in my mouth too.
 
Jana said:
I have to agree with carlos77. The YWP campaign leaves sour taste in my mouth too.
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I agree it may not be the best, or most ideal, way of dealing with the situation, and it would be nice to think that YWP were intending to "compensate" the zoo in some way but I am not so sure about that .
But for me the welfare of the animal itself is the top priority. In many ways it is all happening a bit too late in the day, considering she has endured the situation for 22 years already, but still.
In hindsight it would have been far better had she not been placed in that situation in the first place.
 
This is advertising of YWP. There are many worse enclosure, but none is so famous. What about the enclosures in Russia, the Baltic States, China or Japan? This is bad style of YWP. A newspaper like the mirror is a bad partner.
 
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Nanook said:
Calm down. The point here is simple - the Polar Bear is not suited to the climate full stop, it doesn`t matter what you do with the enclosure, training or whatever, it will not change the fact that such a species cannot tolerate that type of heat. Nothing to do with the zoo itself or racism or whatever rubbish you come up with. You need to understand the species requirements.
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The tone of this response is disappointing. Carlos does not need to be told to calm down, and the suggestion that the words of the Mirror have a whiff of racism is certainly not "rubbish". The certain implication of all of the noise surrounding this unfortunate affair is that a zoo in Mexico would not be capable of looking after a polar bear - with the climate one factor amongst many. This is born out of a negative view of a country such as Mexico - and such a negative view is certainly based upon racism, whether it be explicit or implicit. If the description of Morelia as 'sweltering' isn't racist, it is certainly ignorant, as a minute or two's research will show. I think the British media struggles to deal with any image of Mexico that does not involve swarthy men in large hats, or vicious drug dealers. The majority of stories carried by the BBC about Mexico fall into the trap of cliche - although this myth-debunking article is illuminating: BBC News - Viewpoint: Five myths about Mexico.

As troubling as the Mexiphobia displayed by the Mirror is the anti-zoo, anti-captivity flavour of the whole thing. If it is wrong to keep a polar bear in Mexico's climate, why is it not wrong to also keep one in Doncaster, where it may be cooler but it is still a great deal warmer than in the Arctic?
 
From what I've seen of the enclosure, it's pretty unlovely , but not much worse than most of the Polar Bear facilities that could be seen in Western Europe thirty years ago in many highly reputable zoos (Duisburg, Chester and Rotterdam spring instantly to mind). If I was Mexican I wouldn't like some of the stories being printed either.
 
The whole article leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Anti-captivity and condescending.

It's a pretty steep price to pay for polar bears for polar bears to return to England.
 
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