Zoo Animals Populations that will Expand in the Future
- Thread starter Nikola Chavkosk
- Start date
No, nobody can seriously believe that zoo directors are watching smuggled reptiles and cheering 'soon they will breed and we can get some'. Please be serious. Catching smugglers is a job for police and customs. Zoos simply can do nothing about smuggling of reptiles except some education (what they do).
However, once the species is common in captivity, then it makes no sense for zoos to abstain from keeping them. The horse has bolted. And, to remind you, zoo populations of reptiles are a tiny fraction of wild and hobbyist populations. How many Fiji iguanas are in all zoos together - less than 50?
However, case can be made that catching small animals in the wild is not harmful as long as it is kept small scale and does not threaten the whole population.
Some countries, instead of fighting the unavoidable trade (or, actually, mostly doing nothing in the field) could allow controlled legal catching of reptiles or birds, with funds directed to conservation. The most difficult part seems to be controlling that the legal trade does not provide the cover to the illegal trade on a scale threatening the species. And of course, changing the attitude of some bureaucrats, that if they prohibit something, it does not exist.
However, once the species is common in captivity, then it makes no sense for zoos to abstain from keeping them. The horse has bolted. And, to remind you, zoo populations of reptiles are a tiny fraction of wild and hobbyist populations. How many Fiji iguanas are in all zoos together - less than 50?
However, case can be made that catching small animals in the wild is not harmful as long as it is kept small scale and does not threaten the whole population.
Some countries, instead of fighting the unavoidable trade (or, actually, mostly doing nothing in the field) could allow controlled legal catching of reptiles or birds, with funds directed to conservation. The most difficult part seems to be controlling that the legal trade does not provide the cover to the illegal trade on a scale threatening the species. And of course, changing the attitude of some bureaucrats, that if they prohibit something, it does not exist.
No, nobody can seriously believe that zoo directors are watching smuggled reptiles and cheering 'soon they will breed and we can get some'. Please be serious. Catching smugglers is a job for police and customs. Zoos simply can do nothing about smuggling of reptiles except some education (what they do).
However, once the species is common in captivity, then it makes no sense for zoos to abstain from keeping them. The horse has bolted. And, to remind you, zoo populations of reptiles are a tiny fraction of wild and hobbyist populations. How many Fiji iguanas are in all zoos together - less than 50?
However, case can be made that catching small animals in the wild is not harmful as long as it is kept small scale and does not threaten the whole population.
Some countries, instead of fighting the unavoidable trade (or, actually, mostly doing nothing in the field) could allow controlled legal catching of reptiles or birds, with funds directed to conservation. The most difficult part seems to be controlling that the legal trade does not provide the cover to the illegal trade on a scale threatening the species. And of course, changing the attitude of some bureaucrats, that if they prohibit something, it does not exist.
I don't think zoos are actively involved in smuggling, but we see and have seen animals appear in zoos, where there has been no captive population and where export was banned. Curators and Directors are aware of those details but in some cases still decide to acquire the animals and that is not acceptable in my view, because then you are sustaining smuggling.
tuatara have been intercepted, and I have heard reliable stories from this side of the world of animals being sold and kept overseas.
In the case of the Jewelled Geckoes coming back via Cologne Zoo, these are the first smuggled reptiles ever to return to NZ. Few of the green gecko species have ever been legally exported (every single Jewelled Gecko overseas is illegal, and they are commonly seen on reptile sites). Whole research sites have been emptied of geckoes by smugglers - people who study Jewelled Geckoes here can identify individual geckoes on internet sites by their markings as having come from their site. One smuggler caught here a couple of years ago had pouches which had been relabelled multiple times, implying he had been taking lizards out of NZ on numerous trips.
It is a massive problem in NZ, especially in light of the fragmented lizard populations we now have and their slow breeding rates.
Smugglers don't give a damn about the species or if they cause its extinction in the wild - all they care about is making money and having lizards that nobody else can get.
What you think zoochatters, wich zoo animal species, who are currently represented in small number of zoos (and in small (relatively) numbers of individuals), will have quite expanding population (both by captive breeding and because of ''wild'' imports) in zoos in near future.
I was inspired for this thread from Venezuelan red howler monkey, and Bolivian adventure of devilfish
I can list these animals species, who currently are (very) rare to see in zoos, but who have the potential for expanding of their population in zoos, quickly, in the near future:
-Venezuelan red howler
-Bonobo
-Koala (Queensland subspecies)
What other animals can come on your mind?
Koalas will mostly never take off (outside of Aus) as they require SO many gum leaves. So unless a zoo was willing to make an enormous gumtree farm or continually ship gum leaves from Australia there will not be a koala explosion anytime soon.
I don't know about that; they are breeding pretty steadily in Europe, so they may well hit a point where the population explodes, akin to the one Giant Anteater reached.
I have heard that eucalyptus trees are grown outside of Australia as well...
Either that or I was hallucinating the bloody big one in my garden which was there all my life until a storm took it down two years ago.....
jbnbsn99
Well-Known Member
It's the main tree you see in San Diego. Bet they could have Koalas if they wanted.
Yes there are gum trees native to other parts of the world for example Africa they are also common in Europe BUT koalas are fussy buggers and will only except around 20 types of the 1000s of gum tree species...
Last edited:
If they only exempt around 20 types, that still leaves 980-ish types they can have 
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Funny I visited a garden centre the other weekend and guess what it was selling eucalyptus trees,native were cultivated from plants that originated in guess which country?Yes you guessed correct its Australia,so we have the food source for them growing in this country!
I didn't say that gum trees are not in Europe I just said the vast number required to grow to sustain a koala population is insane hence why they are not many in captivity outside of Australia.
If they only exempt around 20 types, that still leaves 980-ish types they can have
Opps sorry I didn't mean exempt but I ment except.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
How do you know that we don't have vast numbers of them over here!I know of one collection that has over 250 planted within its grounds not that the general public ever sees more than the 12 planted in the public grounds.
Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
I don't think that supplying several species of Eucalyptus leaves (trees) edible by koalas, would be a major problem; trees can grown even in Britain or Netherlands owning to their mild winters with temperatures rarely dropping below -3 deg C for example (except that the lack of intense sunshine would make them less delicious and probably with less aetheric oils - for wich there are indications that act against parasites in koalas gut). Not to mention again that they are grown in glass gardens (or tropical houses in zoos). Plus the fresh cuts of trees can be readily imported from warmer parts in Europe (like Spain for example) where there will be eventual farms planted with the eucalyptus. Trees can be imported from many countries, like from US (don't need to be from Australia - further from Europe).
Oh yes I wrote this before I read the following posts who are explaining all about gum trees growing outside Australia. Thank you guys.
One prerequisite to obtain koala from Australia, imposed by Australian government is also a plan for obtaining eucalyptus tree leaves on regular basis.
also, there are loads of koalas outside Australia already. I mean, how many does San Diego have? And Chimelong in China has around a couple of dozen at least. Then there's all the other places that have them in smaller numbers...
Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
I think koalas are already expanding yes in zoos. Japan holds them too in quite big number - 20 it was?
And that's a good thing. Immagine if Australia banned any possible export of koalas. It is creating also insurance population outside Australia, animals wich may not be infected with Koala retrovirus (KoRV) (like AIDS - HIV in humans) and Chlamydia spp.
They are however more represented in US in comparassion to Europe, and needs more representation in Europe.
And that's a good thing. Immagine if Australia banned any possible export of koalas. It is creating also insurance population outside Australia, animals wich may not be infected with Koala retrovirus (KoRV) (like AIDS - HIV in humans) and Chlamydia spp.
They are however more represented in US in comparassion to Europe, and needs more representation in Europe.
Last edited: