Zoo Reviews

sooty mangabey said:
Dear @Zooreviewsuk, I hope you don't mind my asking, but might it be a good idea to take things a little more slowly? There is a definite naivety to your comments, and some considerable holes in your knowledge, and whilst neither of these is a problem, they do both suggest that you would do well to listen and learn a little before proclaiming your own views in quite so unabashed a fashion. You would, I am sure, garner rather more respect if you took a step back, took a deep breath, and reflected a little as you piled up the posts....
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Hi thanks for your comments. I appreciate what you are saying, but are of course one person's views and not everyone will agree with them. I personally feel you learn more as you go along, and obviously it gives you time and reason to adapt your thoughts. I certainly don't regret my comments or views, they obviously can change over time and I respect all that people say and try to treat everyone with respect and I am definitely keen to learn and improve.
For me I like a personal feel to zoos and what they offer, for me that is what I look to get out of a zoo, and small things count for plenty. I will of course take your thoughts on board and thank you for your feedback.
 
I don't understand all the negativity here, particularly as a certain giraffid was quite so rude when I questioned the motives behind another UK zoo tour.

@Zooreviewsuk Since you've already received a great deal of advice (and, ahem, "advice"), I'm just posting to welcome you to the forum. We're a friendlier bunch than the response to your ranking of Peak (seriously guys?) might indicate. I, for one, hope you keep us updated on your thoroughly bonkers venture. Perhaps by the end of the year, you'll be laughing at @zoogiraffe's insistence that Tayto Park is a better zoo than Dublin...
 
Zooreviewsuk said:
I was disgusted by Dubai Zoo on holiday a few years ago and was excited about the talk of a massive new zoo out there a few years ago only for it to never happen.
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But it *has* happened. Admittedly Dubai Safari isn't quite open yet due to the predictable Emerati delays but it is built and close, as a quick visit to the UAE section of this board would inform you ;-)

I have learned, and continue to learn, so much from ZooChat!

Speaking of which (well, you did ask for feedback!) I've had a look at your pics from Peak Wildlife Park and you could make them much better with some very basic post-processing. Nothing too radical but levels, a resize and a little sharpening makes a massive difference. I'm not the world's best snapper but I'm only too happy to share what I know and I'm sure the other photographers on the board would too. There's a photography section if you want to go into more detail.

Again, just slowing down a little at the beginning and you'll find you get so much more from your tour.

And I will add, welcome to the board, we are, mostly, a friendly lot only too happy to share knowledge!

:)
 
I'm all in favour of the tour (though not sure I could justify doing Peak WP twice!) and certainly in favour of the reviews - what worries me is the numerical scoring. I don't really see how any scale can expect to compare Peak WP and Blackpool, or Trentham and West Mids, and convey any actual meaning in the way the review can - the places are too different. What I fear it will become is a 'headline' from each thread. I suspect you may be making a rod for your own back on that one, as it's much easier for folks to take umbrage at a review when there's a clear direct comparison like a numerical score on show. I think your Peak review without the score placing it so high compared to others would have been much less controversial and the discussion following it more productive.

Still, hope you enjoy the zoos - you'll have some good times to come. Don't forget to watch for wildlife on your way - particularly in the more far-flung corners. :)
 
NigeW said:
But it *has* happened. Admittedly Dubai Safari isn't quite open yet due to the predictable Emerati delays but it is built and close, as a quick visit to the UAE section of this board would inform you ;-)

I have learned, and continue to learn, so much from ZooChat!

Speaking of which (well, you did ask for feedback!) I've had a look at your pics from Peak Wildlife Park and you could make them much better with some very basic post-processing. Nothing too radical but levels, a resize and a little sharpening makes a massive difference. I'm not the world's best snapper but I'm only too happy to share what I know and I'm sure the other photographers on the board would too. There's a photography section if you want to go into more detail.

Again, just slowing down a little at the beginning and you'll find you get so much more from your tour.

And I will add, welcome to the board, we are, mostly, a friendly lot only too happy to share knowledge!

:)
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Thanks Nigel. I have been editing and vamping my images for my own site, but they end up very big files and impossible to load on here due to the 10mb limit, therefore I could only add the original image if that makes sense.

Thanks for the info on Dubai Safari. I was there in 2010/2011 and 2012 and there was talks then. Also last year saying it would be open by January 2017. Then seeing it again hadn't happened and they were yet to have animals in place. It was just one of those things, 7 years in the making but not yet open.

Thanks for the kind welcome.

Chris
 
Maguari said:
I'm all in favour of the tour (though not sure I could justify doing Peak WP twice!) and certainly in favour of the reviews - what worries me is the numerical scoring. I don't really see how any scale can expect to compare Peak WP and Blackpool, or Trentham and West Mids, and convey any actual meaning in the way the review can - the places are too different. What I fear it will become is a 'headline' from each thread. I suspect you may be making a rod for your own back on that one, as it's much easier for folks to take umbrage at a review when there's a clear direct comparison like a numerical score on show. I think your Peak review without the score placing it so high compared to others would have been much less controversial and the discussion following it more productive.

Still, hope you enjoy the zoos - you'll have some good times to come. Don't forget to watch for wildlife on your way - particularly in the more far-flung corners. :)
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Thanks and I take on board your views regarding the scoring and dropping it and having just the comments may be something I decide to do. The scoring does however show that it's only certain failings from Blackpool which put it below Peak in my eyes, and that can be improved. Knowsley for me was very bad, my review will explain why. Everyone likes different things from parks and zoos and or me Peak ticked a lot of boxes, they don't have much but what they have they have done well. I suppose it goes down to the saying, there is no point having quantity if you can't have quality. I probably won't do Peak again until next year when the Himalayan section opens and also the Red Panda and Tapir exhibits are completed.
 
I'd also like to welcome @Zooreviewsuk. ZooChat is a wonderful but rather strange place; I'd reccomend that any new member spend quite a lot of time delving into past discussions, news posts and collection albums. You'll get a good grip on the feel, and dare I say ethos, of the forum, and also get an idea of some of the perspectives and commonly held positions when it comes to topics that may arouse a little controversy.

My own initial feedback, as someone who loves rankings but has almost abandoned the idea that they can be applied systematically to zoos, is that subjectivity is a huge problem. Some zoos have big collections, some have small. Some have great enclosures, some don't. Some try to be immersive, some are quite constrained in scope and so on. How do you quantity numerically the fact that you simply preferred a smaller zoo to a bigger one? I 'like' Helsinki Zoo more than Berlin Zoo, but it would be absurd for me to argue that it is better. I haven't visited PWP or Blackpool, but it seems like it might be a similar sort of situation?

devilfish said:
I get the impression that the more zoos you visit within the UK you'll discover that although there's a lot of variety, many collections don't stand out much at all. Once you've got good photos of a repertoire of common species I think that you, like many of us, might be looking more to see the rarer animals on display which you might only get one chance to photograph on your trip (until you return, that is).

I think the most productive way to rank the zoos is to ensure you have geared the system to a target audience. If it is to the general public, you must prepare to have some higher scores. If it's for zoo professionals and enthusiasts then you'll need more specialised categories. From the sounds of your interesting review it seems you're focussed on photographers and the zoo's future - perhaps the scoring could reflect the photography a bit more.
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I think we would all acknowledge that Zoo enthusiasts vastly overate rarity of collection, relative to the average person. There might be some value in knowing that a zoo makes a great impression on someone who doesn't visit many, or often, even if it just has the basics. Of course, at this pace Zooreviewsuk will soon have visited many, so consistancy in this area will be a challenge!

It seems the target audience is the general public, so emphasis on photography may not be the way to go. I think ranking on potential is also problematic; a score of 10/10 for having lots of empty paddocks at Peak illustrates this. It basically rewards a lack of something rather than anything concrete, and of course that potential may never be fulfilled.

Giant Panda said:
I don't understand all the negativity here, particularly as a certain giraffid was quite so rude when I questioned the motives behind another UK zoo tour.
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There are three things that UK forum members hate: numerical ranking systems, Peak Wildlife Park and criticism of RSCC. Rather unfortunately Zooreviewsuk has hit the first two pretty strongly; luckily the third is probably out of reach. Some people also get very tetchy about allegations of incompetency against zoo staff. I think that is the reason for the rather strident feedback. If I might speak frankly myself, the rather unconventional scores suggest that down the line people's favourite zoos may also receive a pasting and I wonder if people are just gearing up in anticipation of a defensive battle.
 
FunkyGibbon said:
subjectivity is a huge problem. Some zoos have big collections, some have small. Some have great enclosures, some don't. Some try to be immersive, some are quite constrained in scope and so on. How do you quantity numerically the fact that you simply preferred a smaller zoo to a bigger one?
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Think you have hit the nail on the head here; to give a personal example much as you did regarding Helsinki and Zoo Berlin, in terms of my favourite UK collections I would easily include Crocodiles of the World in my top 5 - however, given the size and highly-specialised nature of the collection I would not be able to say that it is one of the five *best* UK collections.

FunkyGibbon said:
There are three things that UK forum members hate: numerical ranking systems, Peak Wildlife Park and criticism of RSCC.
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I would agree with your observation about numerical ranking systems, but I disagree with your other two observations :p I don't think anyone hates Peak Wildlife Park per se, and there are plenty who have been critical of RSCC. I'd argue a more accurate top three would be numerical ranking systems, David Gill and the anti-zoo lobby.
 
Zooreviewsuk said:
I intend over the next week or so to go to West Midlands Safari Park (tomorrow) followed by South Lakes Zoo, Lake District Wildlife Park, Welsh Mountain Zoo, Highland Wildlife Park, Scottish Deer Centre, Edinburgh Zoo and Hebridean Nature Tours.
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Just spotted this comment; you might find it worthwhile to visit Scottish Owl Centre and Five Sisters Zoo whilst in the area of Edinburgh - each are about a half hour from the aforementioned city (and only ten minutes apart from one another) and the former collection is currently the largest collection of owl taxa in a public collection worldwide to the best of my knowledge.
 
Giant Panda said:
I don't understand all the negativity here, particularly as a certain giraffid was quite so rude when I questioned the motives behind another UK zoo tour.

@Zooreviewsuk Since you've already received a great deal of advice (and, ahem, "advice"), I'm just posting to welcome you to the forum. We're a friendlier bunch than the response to your ranking of Peak (seriously guys?) might indicate. I, for one, hope you keep us updated on your thoroughly bonkers venture.
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I'm with @Giant Panda here. There has been a remarkable amount of abrasiveness in the responses.

I think the review sytem is clearly designed for regular zoo-goers and not Zoochatter-types, so the results are not necessarily going to be to the liking of people who value an obscure subspecies of weasel in a glass box over someone who wants to just go to the zoo to enjoy the animals. Hence, perhaps, the responses to Peak's score?

For @Zooreviewsuk, I do however think that (as someone else said) ranking photography potential may not fit that well with "regular" or "family" visitors because that probably isn't such a big deal for them.

Like @FunkyGibbon says above, the ranking for "potential" is really problematical because you're giving a substantial part of the overall score on something which is completely intangible - and has absolutely no bearing on how a zoo visitor experiences their visit. And in the case of Peak it is based on not appreciating the issues of the site itself which likely means it cannot attain the potential you would personally envision for it. Personally I would drop it from the scoring sytem because it really does seem to skew your results.

I would add a rating for accessibilty, primarily in how to get there. Some zoos are very easy to reach and others not so much, and this is undoubtably a factor in visitor numbers. Public transport access (or lack of) should also be noted in this respect.

I like the inclusion of ratings for pricing and catering because those are important factors for visitors.
 
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Welcome to ZooChat @Zooreviewsuk. Like Giant Panda, you seem to have gotten quite a bit of feedback on your project very fast. I'm not big on ratings myself, both for reasons that FunkyGibbon hit upon and simply a lack of interest in that method of thinking. To each their own, however, and I wish you good luck on your venture! I hope you learn a lot and enjoy yourself along the way :)

In regards to using our site, I agree with FG on his statement here:
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FunkyGibbon said:
ZooChat is a wonderful but rather strange place; I'd reccomend that any new member spend quite a lot of time delving into past discussions, news posts and collection albums. You'll get a good grip on the feel, and dare I say ethos, of the forum, and also get an idea of some of the perspectives and commonly held positions when it comes to topics that may arouse a little controversy.
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One specific piece of advice I have is this: if you do choose to post any of your review-related stuff on here, I would suggest keeping it on a dedicated thread like this one; if you try to post many threads about it, or if you post your review stuff in all of the threads for the zoos you're discussing, certain people will get very upset with you... regulars on this site know who these people are :p

Also: thanks for pointing out that map thread you made @devilfish! I'd never seen it before... very useful and interesting.
 
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Welcome and congrats on having the time and money to pursue this! I think a lot of ZooChat members are probably filled with envy.

I have not looked at your links yet, but I see no problem with having a rating system. I also see no problem with photo ops as one of the categories. I am probably biased because photography is my number one hobby. However, digital photography has become widespread and I see more people at zoos with cameras than ever before. So I do think this is an area a lot of people would like to see ranked.

One area you are not ranking that should be (in my opinion - take it or leave it) is conservation efforts. I feel modern zoos should all be promoting conservation with staff resources and money and I have a hard time supporting those that do not.
 
Coelacanth18 said:
One specific piece of advice I have is this: if you do choose to post any of your review-related stuff on here, I would suggest keeping it on a dedicated thread like this one; if you try to post many threads about it, or if you post your review stuff in all of the threads for the zoos you're discussing, certain people will get very upset with you... regulars on this site know who these people are :p
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that is not good advice. A review of a zoo should be posted as a thread in the subforum for that zoo. A thread containing a hundred-plus reviews of different zoos is almost useless as any sort of resource because the reviews cannot be easily found.
 
Chlidonias said:
A review of a zoo should be posted as a thread in the subforum for that zoo. A thread containing a hundred-plus reviews of different zoos is almost useless as any sort of resource because the reviews cannot be easily found.
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Agreed; just keep posting dedicated threads as you have thus far @Zooreviewsuk :)
 
Chlidonias said:
that is not good advice. A review of a zoo should be posted as a thread in the subforum for that zoo. A thread containing a hundred-plus reviews of different zoos is almost useless as any sort of resource because the reviews cannot be easily found.
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TeaLovingDave said:
Agreed; just keep posting dedicated threads as you have thus far @Zooreviewsuk :)
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Advice #2: I don't always give good advice :p my apologies!
 
Hi

Sorry not replied until now today as I have been really busy all day today.

Right in response to ratings, I am going to remove them for now. I am going to spend a bit of time assessing the zoo's with my written comments, and summary and maybe at a later date when I have been to a vast amount, working out a rating scale and go over my notes from all previous visits and then generate ratings. So future reviews will have the sub categories, but no ratings for now, just comments.

I have today been with West Midland Safari Park and it will get 2 reviews, one for the Park and one for the VIP Ultimate Big Cat Experience I took part in, I feel VIP packages should be reviewed separately to the park itself, as I want the main review to be based on what someone going for a normal day out gets.

I also spent 2 hours on the way home at the Falconry Centre and those reviews as well as Monkey Forest and Knowsley will go up overnight.

Chris
 
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I think the biggest problem with these reviews is clearly that Blackpool & Peak have been scored way too high on collection & 'potential' points shouldn't be included!

The best collection in the UK, Chester shouldn't score 20 out of 20 as it isn't perfect, 18 may be more realistic, so Blackpool should be more like 11 or 12!

That would put Peak at more like 6 or 7 than 9!

There are loads of zoos to fill the gap between Blackpool & Chester
 
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