ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2012

As I say, I'm not denying London could do with beefing up the mammal line-up at all. Just that I'm glad they're sticking with camels - particularly as a nice, well-visible animal to present on the park boundary on that side of the zoo!

This is an interesting discussion.

I don't think any of us would not want to see a larger collection of more unusual animals at London Zoo. But the retention of a fairly popular ABC animal is a separate issue, I think (although there is the obvious argument that money spent accommodating camels might easily be spent developing an enclosure for, say, yellow-backed duikers). One of the reasons why those great city zoos that Ian mention are great is that they manage to combine the ABC with the unusual
 
And others might like to wonder why a zoo sited in Europe's financial capital, and whose immediate neighbours include some of the very wealthiest people in Europe, the Saudi backed London Mosque,and the US Ambassador, never seems to have many wealthy benefactors.

A good point. It seems that the burden of philanthropy has fallen heavily on the shoulders of the Paul family, and I'm not sure that their donations have always been well spent.

The comparison with America, and the ability to extract money from the wealthy there, is one which inspires envy. A good friend is the director of a medium-sized art museum (admittedly one attached to a prestigious university), and he has been able to solicit donations greater than those which have been received by any British zoo, ever, thanks to the way in which the US tax system works. Whilst I believe there may be one or two problems with the way that the US economy is organised, this does seem to be one big advantage of the way things are done there.
 
And that potential has been destroyed in the past decade. Every now and then someone hints at developing a captive programme for solenodons. London no longer has the space in the Moonlight World to display them.

More realistically, having back Pigmy Slow Loris would be nice...

It's the Tassie Devils I wish I'd seen!

Other than the excellent nocturnal house at Bristol, there aren't really any other substantial nocturnal collections left in the UK as far as I know....
 
New Camel Enclosure

A planning application has been made to Westminster Council for a new camel enclosure.

It's due to be located on the spare land (currently grass and path) bordering, Animal Adventure, the Casson outdoor area, Tiger Territory and Regents Park.

The plans can be found here:-

12/02834/FULL | Alterations to camel enclosure including the construction of a new shelter and alterations to railings/fencing. | London Zoo Outer Circle Regents Park London NW1 4RY

The first two sections of the Design and Access Statement (which can be found in the above link):-

Design and Access Statement for the Proposed New Camel
Enclosure, London Zoo – March 2012


Background

The Camels at London Zoo are temporarily housed in the Casson Paillion. They were moved here from the Children’s Zoo when the Elephants were moved to ZSL Whipsnade. Previously the Camels were in the Ambika Paul Children’s Zoo which, at that time, focused on domesticated animals from around the world.

With the new Sumatran Tiger project, Tiger Territory, currently under construction, the Camels need to be relocated. Their proximity to the Tiger Territory area is incompatible with the Zoo’s mission to reflect the regional natural habitat of animals in the wild. One of the main principles of the Zoo’s draft masterplan is that the Zoo should gradually create a pattern of zones that reflect animals that are found in specific regions of the world. The new Tiger enclosure supports this theme which will eventually also include the Casson Pavillion.

Location

The site is located on the South side of the Zoo. It is bounded by Regent’s Park to the South, the Casson Pavillion to the North, the new Tiger Territory to the West and the Animal Adventure Children’s Zoo to the East.

It is felt that the historical connection of the Camels to the Children’s Zoo should be maintained and the proposed new location in a currently unused area of the Zoo, not requiring the relocation of other animals, is ideal.
 
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To be honest, it is the range of species the Clore once held which I regret most having been born too late to have seen - although even when I was a child it still had a fair array of species not to be sniffed at; just my bad luck to have been based at the other end of the country with no chance of reaching it!

Looking back the Clore was an amazing collection of mammals,probably far more than are left in the current zoo.
Its a shame that i and probably many others like me who grew up with regular visits throughout the 70s didnt appreciate just how difficult it would become to see a tasmanian devil,wombat,echidna,kiwi,etc 30 years on,not to mention the bear collection!
Obviously by todays standard those tiny clore exhibits wouldnt be acceptable,but if they'd reorganised it better it could still have held a third of the species it held in its prime.
What i didnt realise at the time was that even back then many of the animals in the Clore were probably unique to the UK , as apart from London ,Whipsnade & a few other local zoos i didnt visit many others.
It must always seem like i dislike London, but its probably nostalgia , London of 30 years ago was without doubt the number one in the Uk, but for me it has been drifting lower down the league table since the early 90s crisis
 
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What i didnt realise at the time was that even back then many of the animals in the Clore were probably unique to the UK , as apart from London ,Whipsnade & a few other local zoos i didnt visit many others.

Quite - apart from the aforementioned Tassie Devils, the one which I always remember is that they had the only collection of Barton's long-beaked echidna in Europe for over 30 years, then sent them all to Taronga in the mid-90s.
 
New Camel Enclosure

A planning application has been made to Westminster Council for a new camel enclosure.

It's due to be located on the spare land (currently grass and path) bordering, Animal Adventure, the Casson outdoor area, Tiger Territory and Regents Park.

The plans can be found here:-

12/02834/FULL | Alterations to camel enclosure including the construction of a new shelter and alterations to railings/fencing. | London Zoo Outer Circle Regents Park London NW1 4RY

The third to eighth sections of the Design and Access Statement (which can be found in the above link):-

Design Process

The design of the new Camel enclosure primarily responds to the need of the Camels with adequate outside space and indoor accommodation. The Camel’s sense of space is considered to be an important factor in their wellbeing and the new location, with no visual barriers between the South side of the enclosure and Regents Park beyond, provides this benefit.

The visitor experience is also improved without the disadvantage of ‘crossover’ views between visitors from one side of the viewing area to another. The Camels and the visitors will be able to view each other at the same level and in closer, and safe, proximity.

The barrier design consists of a shallow moat that acts as a visually non-intrusive deterrent on the Camel side and a low relatively transparent barrier on the visitor side.

The Camel shelter will be a relatively small new timber framed pitched roof structure that has been located and designed to appear to be very much a part of the existing timber framed Children’s Zoo buildings. These join onto the adjacent stone and render Pet Care Centre ‘tower’. The new building continues this theme and after a few years of patination of the Corten roof, will appear to be part of the original Children’s Zoo.

Environmental Performance

The main environmental benefit from this project is the design of a new Camels shelter with a timber framed structure that requires no heating or cooling. Cross ventilation and shade in the summer and a fully enclosed shelter in the winter provide the welfare that Camels require in all the seasons. Heating with heat lamps will only be required in extremely cold weather on rare occasions when a Camel requires supplementary heating due to illness.

All the timber for the structure and the cladding will be sourced from certified sustainable sources. This was the main focus of the adjacent 1993 Children’s Zoo, being one the first projects in this country to use only environmentally friendly materials and methods of construction.

Demolition

No demolition of existing structures required.

Size

The new enclosure provides the camels with an area of approximately 900 sq.m. The previous, purpose built Camel area, in the Children’s Zoo, only covered an area of approximately 600 sq.m.

The Camel shelter will be the same size as the previous, purpose built Camel Shelter at approximately 40 sq.m.

Visitors will be able to view the Camels at any point on the 50 metre length of the visitor walkway on the North and West sides of the Camel enclosure.

Use

The existing site consists of lawn, off-show service area, tarmac visitor walkway areas and a section of neglected tarmac path and earth bank that was previously part of Regents Park before the boundary adjustments in May 2001 and September 2004.

Appearance

The design of the new Camel enclosure is largely an issue of Landscaping There are good views of the site from Regents Park but these views suggest that there is nothing worth looking at between the Casson Pavilion and the boundary fence. Offering users of Regents Park a ‘free’ view of the Camels at relatively close proximity will benefit the Park and will also benefit the Zoo, encouraging people to go to the Zoo to see more of what it has to offer.
 
There seems to be a considerable lack of foresight here (not a fault unique to London). Given that the new childrens zoo was only built 3-4 years ago, wouldn't it have been cheaper to leave the camels where they were before then and build the new childrens attraction in the area they are now putting the camels? That would have left money to spare for an exhibit for a new species if they were that desperate to keep the camels.
 
New Camel Enclosure

There seems to be a considerable lack of foresight here (not a fault unique to London). Given that the new childrens zoo was only built 3-4 years ago, wouldn't it have been cheaper to leave the camels where they were before then and build the new childrens attraction in the area they are now putting the camels? That would have left money to spare for an exhibit for a new species if they were that desperate to keep the camels.

From the the Design and Access Statement:-

All the timber for the structure and the cladding will be sourced from certified sustainable sources. This was the main focus of the adjacent 1993 Children’s Zoo, being one the first projects in this country to use only environmentally friendly materials and methods of construction.

The elephants were moved to ZSL Whipsnade from ZSL London on 4th December 2001:-
London Zoo's elephants have packed their trunks and moved to Whipsnade Wild Animal Park

From the the Design and Access Statement:-

The Camels at London Zoo are temporarily housed in the Casson Paillion. They were moved here from the Children’s Zoo when the Elephants were moved to ZSL Whipsnade. Previously the Camels were in the Ambika Paul Children’s Zoo which, at that time, focused on domesticated animals from around the world.

Animal Adventure opened in 2009:-
Animal Adventure exhibit gets a time capsule - News - ZSL London Zoo - ZSL
 
Yes, the old camel paddock in the Children's Zoo held kangaroos for some time after the camels moved out. It didn't all happen in quick succession.
 
When i said childrens zoo built 3-4 years ago,i meant animal adventure, but i hadnt realised the camel paddock had been vacated when the elephants left and presumably dismantled? Or was something else held there immediately before animal adventure?if the enclosure was still there i stand by my earlier comment, if not i guess i will retract it!
 
To be honest, it is the range of species the Clore once held which I regret most having been born too late to have seen - although even when I was a child it still had a fair array of species not to be sniffed at; just my bad luck to have been based at the other end of the country with no chance of reaching it!

I absolutely loved the old Clore and nocturnal section and used to plan visits to London specially to visit the zoo. I also loved the close up views of the huge herbivores as mentioned by Ian, (Gaur, Roan etc.)
Although I know a lot of improvements have been made for animal welfare I really miss the old London zoo of the 80s and early 90s.
 
. . . think of Angwantibo and Casiragua, for instance . . .

I rarely think of anything else ;)

Why not put some dromedaries on the outback section of the Mappins? Apt, educational and adding a little to the dullest exhibit in the zoo.
Then use the space designated for new camel enclosure for something nicer.

Alan
 
When i said childrens zoo built 3-4 years ago,i meant animal adventure, but i hadnt realised the camel paddock had been vacated when the elephants left and presumably dismantled? Or was something else held there immediately before animal adventure?if the enclosure was still there i stand by my earlier comment, if not i guess i will retract it!

Yes, the old camel paddock in the Children's Zoo held kangaroos for some time after the camels moved out.

We've jumped a time track. :p
 
Yes, the old camel paddock in the Children's Zoo held kangaroos for some time after the camels moved out. It didn't all happen in quick succession.
Thanks, your post crossed with my last one, but from what i understand the old camel paddock was still there when they built animal adventure.in that case i would've moved the camels back there & built animal adventure further down where the new paddock is to be built.
 
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I must admit that I agree with questioning the value of spending a lot of money on a new enclosure for domestic Bactrian camels, which are quite common in captivity. I could accept this for pure bred wild camels, but not domestics.

A few years ago, a friend lent me a DVD of Great Zoos of the World, a programme that came out in 1969. It mentioned that London Zoo's clore Pavillion had 120 species of mammals, over 50% more than the total number of mammals currently held in London Zoo. While I remember the cramped enclosures and species represented by single individuals at this time, I also remember the wide range of species kept at London Zoo. These included Barton's echidnas (and not Bruijn's echidnas as the label stated - I took a lot of time watching an echidna walk round its enclosure and trying to confirm it did have 5 toes on its forefoot), hoolock gibbons, angwantibos, hog badgers, Timor deer and many others, some of which are now very rare in zoos. Unfortunately, I missed seeing the solenodon in about 1967 and, while there have been talks about keeping solenodons at London Zoo, I doubt if this will happen in the near future. The zoo has Palawan cloud runners and beaver rats and has a very good collection of corals, but the trend has been to keep species that are quite common in zoos, rather than being innovative - a look at the list of animals formerly kept at London Zoo include many rarities, as well as some species that have subsequently been declared extinct.

I feel a bit sorry for Delene Welch, who left £2 million to the zoo, which used the money to build 'Gorilla Kingdom,' when there are some of the best collections of gorillas in Kent and the money could have been spent on keeping and breeding endangered species to release into the wild. I feel the same way about the new tiger exhibit, especially in the current financial climate.
 
When i said childrens zoo built 3-4 years ago,i meant animal adventure, but i hadnt realised the camel paddock had been vacated when the elephants left and presumably dismantled? Or was something else held there immediately before animal adventure?if the enclosure was still there i stand by my earlier comment, if not i guess i will retract it!

Regardless they decided they wanted to put the camels in the Casson after the elephants left, built a new Children's Zoo (Animal Adventure 2009) when they had funds, built a new area for the tigers when they had funds (Tiger Territory 2012) and hope to build (provided planning is approved) a new camel enclosure when they had funds (later 2012?).

I think it will have worked out quite well.
 
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New Camel Enclosure

Thanks, your post crossed with my last one, but from what i understand the old camel paddock was still there when they built animal adventure.in that case i would've moved the camels back there & built animal adventure further down where the new paddock is to be built.

I think the the way round they have done it not only spread the cost, so it could be done when funds allowed, but also allowed greater flexability when building Tiger Territory or whatever else they might have decided to put there.

They could have ended up knocking down a part of the 2009 Animal Adventure in order to fit in the 2012 Tiger Territory.

After the agreed plans for Tiger Territory they knew exactly what space they had left for the camels.
 
I rarely think of anything else ;)

Why not put some dromedaries on the outback section of the Mappins? Apt, educational and adding a little to the dullest exhibit in the zoo.
Then use the space designated for new camel enclosure for something nicer.

Alan

If i didnt hope for something better than the current inhabitants of the mappins, i would say thats an excellent suggestion!
 
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