Do you know if any young females left the London group in exchange?- presumably such a move would avoid them inbreeding with the father.
ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2013
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Do you know if any young females left the London group in exchange?- presumably such a move would avoid them inbreeding with the father.
Not sure whether this is good news or bad, as it clearly indicates there are no immediate plans to develop the Mappins!
johnstoni.
Well-Known Member
The diana monkeys were housed in the first enclosure (previously home to the colobus group), and it was my understanding that the colobus and diana monkeys had done a straight swap a year or two ago (following the smaller diana cages being heightened for the colobus). Therefore, I'm not sure what the rationale is for these swaps....the spider monkey enclosure in the cat terraces isn't particularly large, so its not clear where the colobus would go. I would understand more if the mangabeys were included and were moving to the (fairly large) diana enclosure, with the colobus moving into the mangabey cage, freeing up a taller enclosure for the gibbons, and giving the diana monkeys the more secluded gibbon cage. Ultimately though, none of those cages are really acceptable for gibbons in this day and age IMO.
ZSL Regents Park has non-subspecific hybrids.
ZSL Whipsnade has Reticulated giraffe.
ZSL Whipsnade has Reticulated giraffe.
All three giraffe came in during 2006 (1) and 2009 (2). All have a parent with pure Baringo blood, however the dam's in all cases are hybrids ..., hence we are dealing with hybrids. It seems London ZSL's role is to maintain an all female group of non-breeding individuals.
When the time is right and if captive spaces allow this, the long term plan was to switch to a pure-bred group of giraffe too at London ZSL (this is probably a medium term plan). At this moment in time however there are still way too many hybrids in the UK, not to speak of the continued production of hybrids at some UK facilities (which is largely due to the fact too few spaces are available to maintain hybrid single sex groups or that the ones available are over-subscribed).
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Two thoughts occur:
- The gibbons aren't part of any breeding programme at all. The older male is a hepatitis carrier and the younger one is a hybrid. Does anybody know what longer-term gibbon plans are within ZSL?
- The transfer of the spider monkeys into what used to be the Sobell Pavilions does rather spoil the presentation of a West African rainforest area. This doesn't especially bother me, but maybe this provides an opportunity to rethink the walk-through aviary. Maybe this could be revamped to be another primate enclosure?
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Actually another thought also occurs - London has been keeping Diana Monkeys with a pretty limited level of success for thirty years now. Maybe, unless a much taller enclosure can be created, De Brazza's might be a more successful species at London.
I really do feel that the West African primate them remain intact. Also, I would never suggest to remove the African aviary. This really serves the purpose of showing city folk the importance of tropical bird species plus it is an entertaining aviary .. I have never seen people be really bored when they enter ... always loads to see. Further, they should attempt to accomodate that higher than average enclosure for Dianas in the Sobells (it can be done). Plus in order to stimulate breeding ... What is the sex / age ratio here and measure of relatedness. It has been found recently most Cercopithecinae breed on matrilines. Are the Dianas in ZSL all grandma, mother, daughter et cetera ... if not that explains the non-breeding.
I've never seen more than 1.2 Dianas at London. I don't know about female relatedness but they do look overweight, probably due to lack of exercise(and age?)- which I think may also contribute to the lack of breeding. I really think more effort should be made to add/subtract animals to stimulate it, instead of just having them there. There are other Dianas in the UK too e.g. at Exmoor, Newquay(and now Paignton) which are not in breeding situations at all and should be involved in exchanges, but apathy seems a problem with the promotion of breeding of this species.
I am familiar with that problem. There lies a challenge for the Primate TAG and BIAZA.
Kumbuka is with the females, generally one at a time, each day. However, Effie and Mjukuu have been together with him at the same time at least once. Zaire when with him doesn't seem fussed/bothered about him at all. He hasn't been outside often. When Kumbuka is with one of the girls he is monitored by a keeper.
But he has settled in well, although right now showing no interest in the females. He is "just there" basically. Maybe when they are all together full time they will integrate better, as the consent swapping/mixing around of females/etc can't help, although there is that need to be careful in the early days.
Is it not ... why not after having been in eye and smell contact ... time to open the gates and let the individual gorillas get on with things (but having keeper staff on hand to intervene if and when need be). It seems now ..., that the establishment of any hierarchy is being blocked by the constant shifting of animals and Kumbuka as supposedly guardian family leader ... cannot take up this role properly. If Zaire would turn out to be the odd one out or the problem animal, it is her time to pack up and go. Otherwise, we will never have a functioning gorilla family unit ... I guess.
Dianas in the UK>
Now that ISIS has closed its doors to public perusal, its harder to make a tally, but I believe the Dianas in the UK are still roughly as follows;
ZSL. 1.2.
Exmoor; 1.1 or(1.0). mother & son? from ZSL but have no idea if related to current ZSL animals.
Newquay; 0.2(sisters, remnant of a larger previous group of six) a new male was obtained from Port Lympne but apparently they killed it the week it arrived. That was several years ago now and there has been no replacement(afaik). Difficult to obtain another one?
Paignton; productive breeding pair were split up, 'for genetic reasons' and the male sent away. 1.2(or 2.2) offspring- 0.1 escaped and was killed. That leaves Mother and 1.1(or 1.2/2.1?) offspring? No new partner has yet been obtained for the adult female to my knowledge.
Port Lympne. About four. Maybe one breeding pair+ offspring.?
That's the total afaik. If its difficult/impossible to find new partners, why not centralise the unmated animals in one group somewhere? Answer; too radical and some zoos would lose their exhibits.
Now that ISIS has closed its doors to public perusal, its harder to make a tally, but I believe the Dianas in the UK are still roughly as follows;
ZSL. 1.2.
Exmoor; 1.1 or(1.0). mother & son? from ZSL but have no idea if related to current ZSL animals.
Newquay; 0.2(sisters, remnant of a larger previous group of six) a new male was obtained from Port Lympne but apparently they killed it the week it arrived. That was several years ago now and there has been no replacement(afaik). Difficult to obtain another one?
Paignton; productive breeding pair were split up, 'for genetic reasons' and the male sent away. 1.2(or 2.2) offspring- 0.1 escaped and was killed. That leaves Mother and 1.1(or 1.2/2.1?) offspring? No new partner has yet been obtained for the adult female to my knowledge.
Port Lympne. About four. Maybe one breeding pair+ offspring.?
That's the total afaik. If its difficult/impossible to find new partners, why not centralise the unmated animals in one group somewhere? Answer; too radical and some zoos would lose their exhibits.
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Thanks for the update. As they spend more time together, things may well change.
Now that ISIS has closed its doors to public perusal, its harder to make a tally, but I believe the Dianas in the UK are still roughly as follows;
ZSL. 1.2.
Exmoor; 1.1 or(1.0). mother & son? from ZSL but have no idea if related to current ZSL animals.
Newquay; 0.2(sisters, remnant of a larger previous group of six) a new male was obtained from Port Lympne but apparently they killed it the week it arrived. That was several years ago now and there has been no replacement(afaik). Difficult to obtain another one?
Paignton; productive breeding pair were split up, 'for genetic reasons' and the male sent away. 1.2(or 2.2) offspring- 0.1 escaped and was killed. That leaves Mother and 1.1(or 1.2/2.1?) offspring? No new partner has yet been obtained for the adult female to my knowledge.
Port Lympne. About four. Maybe one breeding pair+ offspring.?
That's the total afaik. If its difficult/impossible to find new partners, why not centralise the unmated animals in one group somewhere? Answer; too radical and some zoos would lose their exhibits.
Edinburgh still hold the species. Not sure if Twycross do.
Totally overlooked Edinburgh
They are the one UK collection that do breed them successfully and have a reasonable number.Twycross have Roloways, and possibly Dianas too. If so, most likely an ageing or otherwise non-breeding pair(?) as their Guenon breeding record has not been good over the years (discounting the recent De Brazzas which came from Howletts/Port Lympne).
volvox
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's quite fair to say Kumbuka is "showing no interest in the females". He's very friendly towards them (well, apart from Zaire who keeps to herself) and I've seen him exchanging grooming with Mjukuu, but perhaps in a more brotherly way... still, early days!
While on the subject, the tigers Jae Jae and Melati have definitely been getting it together! – no problem there.
While on the subject, the tigers Jae Jae and Melati have definitely been getting it together! – no problem there.