ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2014

I agree that communication isn't ZSL's greatest asset, but in their defence, when it comes to arrivals and departures there are so many what ifs... (weather, road conditions, animal conditions, problems at arrival zoo etc etc) that I think they are wary of announcing anything definite. Fund raising for the new enclosures is already going ahead so keep your ears open and your eye on the websites. All the plans are on the City of Westminster website, you just need to do a search for London Zoo and you'll get there (there are loads!). If you do visit this weekend, see if you can spot the new baby sloth which is brilliant! Ask a volunteer to point it out (I'm always saying that!!).
 
Thanks for that. Had a look on COW planning site and can't find anything. I'm sure it'll come out officially sooner or later. Just interested to see if they are going to remodel the whole area with the Gibbons etc?
 
Isee there is also an Application to replace the now empty North Aviary block with 4 new aviaries . This is good news as this area badly needs some new development .
 
Bele said:
Isee there is also an Application to replace the now empty North Aviary block with 4 new aviaries . This is good news as this area badly needs some new development .
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Yep, it's been on there for quite a while so hopefully there'll be a decision soon.

I'm pretty sure I've done a link on this thread. February/March? I apologise if that's way off.
 
Good to see today that Melati was encouraging her cubs (first one and then two) to climb onto the wooden viewing platform today.
 
Anyone seen the 2 Striated Caracara chicks, they look almost as large as their parents already. Whilst on this topic i'd be interested to know peoples opinions or keeping animals which aren't currently threatened in the wild in Zoos. I'm not that comfortable seeing birds in cages anyway but when they aren't even threatened it even worse. I've always thought the Vulture/ Bird of prey aviary particular area would be a decent size to move the Colobus monkeys into..
 
Redboyce said:
Whilst on this topic i'd be interested to know peoples opinions or keeping animals which aren't currently threatened in the wild in Zoos.
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The implicit comment in your question – that, somehow, it is possibly alright to keep rare animals in captivity, but not to keep those that are not in any way threatened – is one which I have never understood. However rare and animal is, our keeping it in captivity is, ultimately, for our own benefit. I do not believe that, for example, a douc langur appreciates its rarity, and is therefore in some way happier to be kept in confinement than a relatively common vervet monkey. Either we think those animals in some way suffer from being in captivity, and therefore we do not keep them, or we believe that, under the right conditions, an animal does not suffer, and that it is therefore ethical to keep it confinement. I believe the latter, as will I suspect most visitors to this website; the contrary point of view – that it is wrong to keep animals confined – is one that I disagree with, but can respect. The argument that it is acceptable to keep animals in captivity only if they are rare is one which I cannot comprehend, nor respect.
 
sooty mangabey said:
The implicit comment in your question – that, somehow, it is possibly alright to keep rare animals in captivity, but not to keep those that are not in any way threatened – is one which I have never understood. However rare and animal is, our keeping it in captivity is, ultimately, for our own benefit. I do not believe that, for example, a douc langur appreciates its rarity, and is therefore in some way happier to be kept in confinement than a relatively common vervet monkey. Either we think those animals in some way suffer from being in captivity, and therefore we do not keep them, or we believe that, under the right conditions, an animal does not suffer, and that it is therefore ethical to keep it confinement. I believe the latter, as will I suspect most visitors to this website; the contrary point of view – that it is wrong to keep animals confined – is one that I disagree with, but can respect. The argument that it is acceptable to keep animals in captivity only if they are rare is one which I cannot comprehend, nor respect.
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I can kind of understand the view (though do not hold it). I think it comes down to thinking that animals suffer or live some kind of lesser life in captivity but that we should accept a bit of suffering for the greater conservation reason.
Also think this topic should be moved to it's own thread, maybe in general?
 
I'd rather not see animals in captivity full stop however considering we've managed annihilate wild animal populations and destroy their habitats i can completely understand the need to try and preserve some of whats left in captivity. However i can't understand why a zoo would use valuable assets and budgets keeping non threatened species.
 
ZSL London...

Here we go then:
Today's common species could be tomorrow's rare species. For example, African Lions are undergoing a catastrophic decline as we speak. For another, the extinct Passenger Pigeon was bred in large numbers in at least one UK collection when it was common. If this stock had been maintained, the species would still be with us.
Properly kept animals do not gave a reduced quality of life in captivity. They have a different life, which is not necessarily a worse one.
Techniques for propagating rare species are learned on common ones. The rare ones are too special to learn on.
Now a over sonar viewpoint. I like to see animals, in the wild or in a comfortable captive setting. I keep birds and work in a zoo, and would not do either if I thought the creatures in our care were unhappy.
As might be gathered, this is pretty close to my heart. There are people out there who would stop me doing what I do, and I feel at least as passionately as they do.
 
ZSL

That last post was nearly made a nonsense of by the spellcheck monster. I was making a personal point, nothing to do with sonar. Or for that matter Sonar, who was a Tiger at Longleat.
 
Redboyce said:
Anyone seen the 2 Striated Caracara chicks, they look almost as large as their parents already. Whilst on this topic i'd be interested to know peoples opinions or keeping animals which aren't currently threatened in the wild in Zoos. I'm not that comfortable seeing birds in cages anyway but when they aren't even threatened it even worse. I've always thought the Vulture/ Bird of prey aviary particular area would be a decent size to move the Colobus monkeys into..
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If your keeping on topic is regarding the caracaras kept at the zoo. Owing to a stable population Striated Caracaras are classed as near threatened. However the number of birds is tiny probably no more than 650 adult pairs. All found in one rather small part of the world.

More people will have visited London Zoo today than their total world population!
 
The post above, by FBBird, says it all, really. I share his indignation.

Of course there is an argument to be made that keeping animals in captivity is, intrinsically, "cruel" (whatever that might mean), and of course that view is held by people who have thought through the issues, who are intelligent, and whose intentions are good. I respect their argument (up to a point) but, to be honest, I don't really want to hear from them. They see the thing to which I devote more of my time than anything else other than work or family (and which, frankly, is often on my mind when I'm engaged with those two pursuits), as wrong. I come to this website, to some extent, to get away from such people. To find people posting here saying that they would rather not see animals in captivity, or that they think animals suffer or live a lesser life in captivity, makes me feel like a church-goer who finds a shouty atheist sitting next to him in the pew on a Sunday morning.
 
Also lets be honest, the majority of the people who visit zoos are not going there to see animals such as (using examples from London Zoo) the mountain chicken or partula snail, they are going to see the meerkats, the llamas and giraffes and other such "non threatened" animals. However after they have seen those animals, maybe they will walk past those rarer ones they have never heard about, and learn about them. So all the animals, threatened or not, play a role I feel.

And as FBBird said, there are not many animals which are not suffering from human activity to some degree even if they are have not got an endangered tick by there name yet, plus you can never predict any natural disasters effecting huge areas and populations - so having a health captive popular is vital.
 
On an unrelated note googlemaps has been updated and now shows london zoo with completed tiger territory etc. Interesting to see its current layout (and the mess theyve made of the mappins).
 
I seem to have hit a nerve here. Lets get this straight i was simply asking peoples opinions not making judgments on others views. In an ideal world i wouldn't want to see animals in captivity but we are far from an ideal world. I'm really pleased that a lot of Zoos are moving forward and providing enclosures that offer not just more space but environments that offer interest and enrichment. I don't know the figures but i wouldn't be surprised if Zoo's also contributed to the majority of conservation work across the globe so they are no longer just a place to go and look at animals but a source of information and hopefully inspiration when it comes to keeping species and habitats alive.
However there are still enclosures from yesteryear that make me feel slightly uncomfortable especially when the inhabitants aren't yet on the brink and my original statement was about best use of funds..
 
I do feel that Redboyce's post raises another issue. S/he has welcomed the Lion Terraces revamp, but later admits to not really liking animals being in captivity at all. I feel that London's management are bending over backwards to appease this mindset, at the cost of much money and species diversity, and it is getting them nowhere.

How I cheered FB Bird's comments to the rafters! In my near half century of visiting London Zoo, Humboldt Penguin, Egyptian Vulture, Ring-tailed Lemur, Lar Gibbon, Chimpanzee, Hunting Dog, Asiatic Short-clawed Otter, Black Rhino, Grevy's Zebra, White-lipped Peccary, Common Hippo, Hog Deer, and Reticulated Giraffe - to pick a mixed bunch of birds and mammals - have all seen their wild populations go through the floor.

To neglect captive populations of any species whose native habitat is undergoing radical change, whether through war, disease or habitat loss, is dangerously misgiven. As well as Passenger Pigeon, in the past Carolina Parakeet, Laughing Owl, Barbary Lion, and Syrian Wild Ass were all successfully kept and reared in captivity. All are now, of course, globally extinct.
 
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