ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2014

I don't think London Zoo are bending over backwards to appease a mindset. They are bending over backwards to create a better environment for animals in captivity, with the end goal surely being to encourage breeding and allow a better story to be told to help educate visitors.

Are you suggesting that you'd prefer the Zoo to hold a greater diversity of animals at the expense of enclosure size and quality?
 
Redboyce said:
I don't think London Zoo are bending over backwards to appease a mindset. They are bending over backwards to create a better environment for animals in captivity, with the end goal surely being to encourage breeding and allow a better story to be told to help educate visitors.

Are you suggesting that you'd prefer the Zoo to hold a greater diversity of animals at the expense of enclosure size and quality?
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The reasons for peoples objection to several aspects of the new lion development (not necessarily over a new lion enclosure itself, but other parts of the plans & the consequences to the collection as a whole) have been well documented elsewhere. I don't think we need to start that debate again so soon, which is where i fear this is heading!
 
Redboyce said:
I think i must have missed that. Never mind..
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The new lion development will lead to the loss of diversity you mentioned in the post i replied to and your liking it in Ian's post before it, that's all ....so far.
 
Redboyce said:
Are you suggesting that you'd prefer the Zoo to hold a greater diversity of animals at the expense of enclosure size and quality?
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The suggestion that size and quality are synonymous is, I would lustily argue, fallacious.

As is the suggestion that conservation is the only justification for keeping animals in captivity (noble though the goal of conservation may be). Some of us believe that the chance to see well-kept wild animals is life-enhancing and fascinating regardless of the rarity of those animals.

Nobody is suggesting that animals should be kept badly. Many might argue with the assertion that things were universally terrible "in the past" and that the young Turks have all the answers.
 
I'm not suggesting that size equals quality just because i've used both words in the same sentence however i'm pretty sure that when keeping animals in captivity then size is one aspect (and a pretty important one) of the overall quality. I like to be able to see animals in captivity display some form of natural behaviour and i suppose with larger birds this is extremely tricky as flying in an enclosure that doesn't facilitate this isn't easy.

As for the diversity issue, i suppose its just a personal viewpoint i'm not to bothered about London Zoo losing animals as long as the animals lost are re-housed somewhere that may be able to focus on them more effectively. I'm not arguing for a lose of diversity in captivity across the board but maybe Zoo's could specialize more to make sure the investment was really well focused.
 
I think within this discussion is a fair point about the bird of prey aviary. With new technology allowing for lightweight netted flights with increased visibility and scale, while this aviary may still look attractive, in some ways it's sectional feel is slightly redundant. I'm not aware of whether removing the partitions in some way would compromise the system of piano wire, but the sections really don't seem so large these days for the species held there, with the exception of the (remaining pair of?) Ruppell's griffon vultures. While it is important to breed many of the species held in this aviary, ZSL is fortunate in having an off-show bird garden at Whipsnade (wasn't this where the Ruppell's were bred?) and perhaps it would be more useful to hold a mixed non-breeding group at London with access to one large flight. Aside from the caracaras and Harrier hawks, I don't believe there has been any other significant breeding success (ie for the king or griffon vultures) in this aviary? Did the bateleur eagles ever breed here (I have a feeling it might have been in the previous aviary on the same site), and what was the reason they were moved to the Snowdon aviary?

As I've said elsewhere, as the Snowdon has already been used for birds of prey for some time, it possibly could be a more interesting space for large vulture species found in Europe, but I doubt zoo licensing would ever allow such birds to be held in a walk-through environment, let alone something so noticeable (and therefore vulnerable to disturbance) by the public on the towpath below.
 
Personally I think the best use of what I still consider to be the Eastern Aviary (:rolleyes:) would be to house larger parrots. There are synergies in keeping parrots close to primates, and it is hard to think of a better security feature than the Keepers' Lodge .

I don't think that the King Vultures, in particular, have enough height; the tallest of the old Birds of Prey aviaries offered far more. A new aviary on the North bank of the canal might help, and it would be lovely to have a big eagle species (Harpy in my dreams - it has been decades since they have been kept at London) as their neighbours.

Touching lightly on the proposed revamp of the Lion Terraces, as I have no wish to offend Pipaluk ;), surely the most important ZSL conservation project in India is the fight to save its vultures from the ravages caused by diclofenac? A new exhibit, housing one or more of the species affected, would surely be one of the best possible adverts for the Society's work overseas.
 
According to the latest ZSL magazine the remaining lions will go to Whipsnade for the duration of the construction work on the new enclosure. They will not be on display though.
 
IanRRobinson said:
Personally I think the best use of what I still consider to be the Eastern Aviary (:rolleyes:) would be to house larger parrots. There are synergies in keeping parrots close to primates, and it is hard to think of a better security feature than the Keepers' Lodge .

I don't think that the King Vultures, in particular, have enough height; the tallest of the old Birds of Prey aviaries offered far more. A new aviary on the North bank of the canal might help, and it would be lovely to have a big eagle species (Harpy in my dreams - it has been decades since they have been kept at London) as their neighbours.

Touching lightly on the proposed revamp of the Lion Terraces, as I have no wish to offend Pipaluk ;), surely the most important ZSL conservation project in India is the fight to save its vultures from the ravages caused by diclofenac? A new exhibit, housing one or more of the species affected, would surely be one of the best possible adverts for the Society's work overseas.
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Vultures would complement the lions very nicely!

I'm surprised ZSL haven't been at the forefront of pangolin conservation. Surely London could house a pair with relative ease?
 
Redboyce said:
Anyone seen the 2 Striated Caracara chicks, they look almost as large as their parents already...
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Yes they seem to have grown rapidly ...I seem to remember seeing at least 3 chicks on a earlier visit but could only see 2 today.
 
Gorilla Kingdom indoor areas were being worked upon today .. not clear what they are changing ... so all Gorilla's were outside.
The hessian-type material (used one side of the Gorilla indoor windows) has also been applied to the Red Spider monkey window and to the francois langur window.

Butterfly exhibit seems to have had a fresh batch of butterflys released.

Eight or nine penguin chicks were all together in the nursery pool area.
 
The first (side) window as you enter the exhibit has the covering - the second window (the one opposite the mangabey's) was uncovered on my last visit - although two or three plant pots had been added at intervals inside the viewing barriers. As the area was cordoned off yesterday .. not clear as to whether any further changes to the viewing experience are occurring.
 
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