ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2014

If London ever got the ten acres from the park, they ought to put on a show .Reticulated Giraffe, Grevy's Zebra, Lesser Kudu, Ostrich and Black Rhino would do very nicely...:cool:

wouldn't it be nice, i'm sure there would be more to squeeze in if the zoo was given 10 acres, but i'm sure a hoofstock area would be a priority.
 
With a comparatively short gestation period, another litter of cubs could be expected soon/now if they allowed the pair to breed again soon after the loss of the previous cub. But of course the pool might just be being cleaned also- the clue might be if it stays empty and isn't refilled.;)

I'm pretty sure it's over three months since they started to breed again, hence my original comment, but of course they may just be cleaning the pool!
 
If London ever got the ten acres from the park, they ought to put on a show .Reticulated Giraffe, Grevy's Zebra, Lesser Kudu, Ostrich and Black Rhino would do very nicely...:cool:

Is/was there an agreement, formal or otherwise, about getting another ten acres?

I assume anyway they would need to prove they've run out of space and at the moment they have empty unused space.
 
Is/was there an agreement, formal or otherwise, about getting another ten acres?

There is a clause in the Zoo's lease that states they have the right to ask for further land in the Park. This has always been understood to be the land to the south, alongside the Children's Zoo/Animal Adventure, since the Zoo's Eastern (Broad Walk) and Northern (Prince Albert Road) boundaries are pretty clearly defined, as is the bridge over the Canal to the West of the Cotton Terraces.

ZSL tried to exercise it in the Andy Grant era in 1989 (the likes of Pertinax will remember! ;)) but royally messed it up by talking about using it for an enlarged Children's Zoo, rather than for (say) elephants, rhinos, or bears. Local opposition scuppered it, the first public signs that the Andy Grant regime wasn't as bright as it liked to say it was...:rolleyes:

I assume anyway they would need to prove they've run out of space and at the moment they have empty unused space.

I agree, there's a fair chunk of unused space at London, but I don't see it stretching to housing larger mammals. And it's a lot cheaper, easier and quicker to create structures on land where there are no structures, listed or otherwise already there.
 
Is/was there an agreement, formal or otherwise, about getting another ten acres?

I assume anyway they would need to prove they've run out of space and at the moment they have empty unused space.

As Kiang has suggested, even if they did acquire the additional 10 acres, it would then be a question of which of the many lost species to bring back and make London a top zoo again. I'm sure Rhino would be a probable priority, but then what about bears, big cats or sealions or another great ape? 10 acres would be good, but probably not enough in 21st century requirements.

On the unused areas, perhaps it's time to start filling them with animals that could be accomodated in them e.g smaller cats/ other carnivores, other small mammals or the primates that will be homeless after the lion development.
 
And a cheaper solution for Lions at London might free up capital to buy land for Lions in India. If large carnivores have a future, it will be by there being well funded national parks, with human neighbours that have incentives to put up with the inconvenience of lethal animals on their doorstep.

As far as the rest of it is concerned; well, the easiest place to put Lions at London so that they had a view would be the Mappin Terraces IMHO....:rolleyes:

I think one of the problems facing Asian Lions is there is very little suitable habitat available outside the Gir Forest, certainly not nearby anyway. Its very much an isolated pocket of forest. Its always been the case they would need to translocate some lions somewhere else to start new groups, one of the reasons there is always an overspill problem with the Lions in the Gir Forest as they breed freely but have nowhere to spread their population and get into trouble with people when they try to enter new territories outside.

Having been there I was also struck at how they live 'jeek by jowl' with the locals. In previous decades some Lions were almost semi-tame as they were baited (with domestic buffalo) to attract them out to show themselves at bi-weekly 'tourist shows' in the forest. I believe these may have been discontinued now. These lions also seem to possess a gene which renders them(mainly- there are exceptions) remarkably unaggressive toward people- there can't be anywhere else you can approach and follow wild lions on foot to within a few yards (I've done it:) ),yet with little or no fear of attack or other interest from them- something that certainly can't normally be done with African Lions. Obviously captive lions are a different matter though regarding behaviour.

Regarding ZSL- their building policy nowadays seems to demand that for ABC species like Gorillas, Tigers and Lions, they have to have 'new builds' which cost 'xxx million' and I agree much cheaper housing could be completed for them, but its just not the way they seem to work there.
 
Having taken some time to study all the plans for the revamped lion terraces and to look at the other paperwork (thank you Stulch), I think that there are some good features in the new proposals. The developments do not seem to be over-engineered, being largely adaptations of the existing structures that give a considerable increase in the space available to the animals, which is very welcome.
However I do not like the reincarnation of the Monkey Temple (even in pursuit of the Holy Grail of 'immersion'); I thought we had seen the end of these incongruous constructions when Bristol took their monkeys out of their temple. In the 21st Century, ZSL must get quite a few Hindu visitors - how will they feel about a mock temple?
As Pertinax has said already, the zoo did not do well with Hanuman langurs previously, and there is no conservation reason for preferring them to the Francois' langurs , although they do match the Indian lions zoogeographically.
Unless I have misunderstood the plans, the aviary will not be modified. I think it is too small and in particular too low, for even a medium sized hornbill species, and I don't think any are zoogeographically appropriate. Rethinking required?
Finally the lions, while I like the idea of giving them more space in principle, I agree with IRR as I cannot think of an animal which will respond less to having more space (with the possible exception of the sloths). I guess the studbook keeper will be happy to allow them to have more specimens, if any are available, but as kiang says importation of less closely related animals from India or elsewhere would be very welcome: the zoo will certainly need more lions to make a decent show in the new exhibits.
Is it too much to hope that at least some of the species displaced can have new accommodation built for them at Regents Park or Whipsnade?

Alan
 
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Another thought about India, its religions, and its conservation issues. Shouldn't ZSL be looking to develop an exhibit for one of the Critically Endangered vulture (Oriental, Long-billed, Slender-billed and Red-headed) species from India? This is a project in which it is a Core Partner:Partners.

It might be appropriate at this point to insert this image, familiar I'm sure to anybody who's walked to London Zoo along the Broad Walk.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Ready+Money+drinking+fountain&rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-ContextMenu&rlz=1I7NDKB_enGB525&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=jqBu9XAwYOzxiM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcTwbp7qbd1awA5fHjhxywe-8zTDOQtP-J3IZOq5xxGIPa16uYw_%253B1024%253B768%253BkhslLE72puVeJM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.panoramio.com%25252Fphoto%25252F58586871&sa=X&ei=voLlUuqNJYmR7Abb7oGgAQ&ved=0CFYQ9QEwBQ&biw=1366&bih=673#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=jqBu9XAwYOzxiM%253A%3BkhslLE72puVeJM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fstatic.panoramio.com%252Fphotos%252Flarge%252F58586871.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.panoramio.com%252Fphoto%252F58586871%3B1024%3B768

The Ready Money drinking fountain was given to the park in 1869 by Sir Cowasjee Jehangir, a wealthy Parsee industrialist from Bombay, whose nickname was Ready Money. It was his thank-you for the protection he and fellow Parsees received from British rule in India. The Parsee community in India were among the first to draw attention to the calamitous decline of India's vultures.

Redevelopment of the Mappin Terraces, with lions on the lower terraces, vultures in meshed over aviaries on the Goat Hills, and with a tall aviary for Great Indian Hornbills (the emblem of the Bombay Natural History Society) on part of the distinctly underused garden south of the Komodo Dragons, would give the Zoo an Indian corner. The vultures would be able to see the fountain. And I feel sure that an enterprising Asian restauranteur from nearby Somers Town could adapt the Mappin Café into a first class Asian fast food establishment.

Meanwhile, the Lion Terraces could be refurbished to house a collection of rare medium sized carnivores.

Any takers? ;)
 
In general terms I think your idea shares things with what they would like to do longer term.
 
Another thought about India, its religions, and its conservation issues. Shouldn't ZSL be looking to develop an exhibit for one of the Critically Endangered vulture (Oriental, Long-billed, Slender-billed and Red-headed) species from India? This is a project in which it is a Core Partner:Partners.

It might be appropriate at this point to insert this image, familiar I'm sure to anybody who's walked to London Zoo along the Broad Walk.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Ready+Money+drinking+fountain&rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-ContextMenu&rlz=1I7NDKB_enGB525&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=jqBu9XAwYOzxiM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcTwbp7qbd1awA5fHjhxywe-8zTDOQtP-J3IZOq5xxGIPa16uYw_%253B1024%253B768%253BkhslLE72puVeJM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.panoramio.com%25252Fphoto%25252F58586871&sa=X&ei=voLlUuqNJYmR7Abb7oGgAQ&ved=0CFYQ9QEwBQ&biw=1366&bih=673#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=jqBu9XAwYOzxiM%253A%3BkhslLE72puVeJM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fstatic.panoramio.com%252Fphotos%252Flarge%252F58586871.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.panoramio.com%252Fphoto%252F58586871%3B1024%3B768

The Ready Money drinking fountain was given to the park in 1869 by Sir Cowasjee Jehangir, a wealthy Parsee industrialist from Bombay, whose nickname was Ready Money. It was his thank-you for the protection he and fellow Parsees received from British rule in India. The Parsee community in India were among the first to draw attention to the calamitous decline of India's vultures.

Redevelopment of the Mappin Terraces, with lions on the lower terraces, vultures in meshed over aviaries on the Goat Hills, and with a tall aviary for Great Indian Hornbills (the emblem of the Bombay Natural History Society) on part of the distinctly underused garden south of the Komodo Dragons, would give the Zoo an Indian corner. The vultures would be able to see the fountain. And I feel sure that an enterprising Asian restauranteur from nearby Somers Town could adapt the Mappin Café into a first class Asian fast food establishment.

Meanwhile, the Lion Terraces could be refurbished to house a collection of rare medium sized carnivores.

Any takers? ;)

It definitely seems a much better plan than the route ZSL have disappointingly ( for me anyway) chosen to take! If space could be found to house the primates currently on the lion terraces, your plan would lead to an increase in species overall, unlike the ZSL one.
 
Pity that zoo management couldn't find space for the king cobra in the new Asian lion exhibit.
 
Another thought about India, its religions, and its conservation issues. Shouldn't ZSL be looking to develop an exhibit for one of the Critically Endangered vulture (Oriental, Long-billed, Slender-billed and Red-headed) species from India? This is a project in which it is a Core Partner:Partners.

It might be appropriate at this point to insert this image, familiar I'm sure to anybody who's walked to London Zoo along the Broad Walk.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Ready+Money+drinking+fountain&rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-ContextMenu&rlz=1I7NDKB_enGB525&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=jqBu9XAwYOzxiM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcTwbp7qbd1awA5fHjhxywe-8zTDOQtP-J3IZOq5xxGIPa16uYw_%253B1024%253B768%253BkhslLE72puVeJM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.panoramio.com%25252Fphoto%25252F58586871&sa=X&ei=voLlUuqNJYmR7Abb7oGgAQ&ved=0CFYQ9QEwBQ&biw=1366&bih=673#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=jqBu9XAwYOzxiM%253A%3BkhslLE72puVeJM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fstatic.panoramio.com%252Fphotos%252Flarge%252F58586871.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.panoramio.com%252Fphoto%252F58586871%3B1024%3B768

The Ready Money drinking fountain was given to the park in 1869 by Sir Cowasjee Jehangir, a wealthy Parsee industrialist from Bombay, whose nickname was Ready Money. It was his thank-you for the protection he and fellow Parsees received from British rule in India. The Parsee community in India were among the first to draw attention to the calamitous decline of India's vultures.

Redevelopment of the Mappin Terraces, with lions on the lower terraces, vultures in meshed over aviaries on the Goat Hills, and with a tall aviary for Great Indian Hornbills (the emblem of the Bombay Natural History Society) on part of the distinctly underused garden south of the Komodo Dragons, would give the Zoo an Indian corner. The vultures would be able to see the fountain. And I feel sure that an enterprising Asian restauranteur from nearby Somers Town could adapt the Mappin Café into a first class Asian fast food establishment.

Meanwhile, the Lion Terraces could be refurbished to house a collection of rare medium sized carnivores.

Any takers? ;)

If only you worked in the management of ZSL Ian! It's such a shame the mappin terraces are so under used and just filled with emu and 2 common macropods! The least they could do is add some wallaby species that aren't ten a penny.
 
It as been said ad naseam and ad taedium that that ZSL simply does not have the cash / funding available to renovate the Mappin Terraces. This is thanks in no undue part to the government and Westminster Council totally abandoning ZSL / London Zoo. We all know Regent's Park would not be any longer without a particular shaykh from the Middle East.

Alas, we dream on … ad tedium … It is rather pointless to suggest to stick some other animal on top when it would cost a bloody fortune to redo the Terraces - and do not think for a minute … that would not have to include the Aquarium, the underground technical areas and water bassins supplying the Aquarium.

So, unless we have say 25-30 million Pounds at our disposal A.S.A.P. it is never ever going to happen and … it will continue to falter by the wayside … until at long bloody last someone somewhere has the guts to say rip to the Listed Building Status … redo the Aquarium and do the place full justice - this considering their fish collection and ex situ conservation breeding is of more than world class status and should be preserved FULL STOP - and make the new Mappins an extension to their Komodo / Giant Tortoises exhibit. It would have to have some S.E. Asia flavor (as this is what I was in the last Masterplanning document).

Amen!

Exclamation of Hallelujah it were ever to happen!
 
Hi -I used to post at Johnstoni, and before then Hadley, but with a new email I've had to set up this username. I rarely get time to post, but the recent discussion on London has been interesting to me, so apologies in advance for such a long entry here.

Lion Terraces redevelopment
I'll be glad to see the Lion Terraces are to be largely demolished, I think the existing lion enclosure would have come in for increasing criticism over the coming years. Its not huge, especially with the moat, and the offshoot enclosure wasn't originally designed for holidng a pride of lions. The public areas in the middle of the terraces are outdated and should be given over to enclosure space. IMHO the development will create an acceptable environment for one of London's remaining large carnivores, and will therefore mean people will see lions in Regent's Park for many years to come.

Compare this to Bristol, where maintaining more than one large cat species became untenable by the late 90s, as refurbishment of the tiger/lion/leopard cages only yielded what is now one of the smaller lion enclosures in the UK, and the tigers (once the former polar bear pit could no longer house them) ultimately had to leave the zoo. I wonder how much longer Bristol, (in many ways analagous to London in its evolution from an older urban postage-stamp collection) will maintain its lions in the current enclosure.

I realise much of the issue with the current terraces is perception. I think inner-city zoos (of which there are few in the UK) can seem run-down and bleak in a way that collections reached by travelling through miles of countryside don't; rain and fog can be enchanting in the country but, in cities, they make everything look grim and depressing. Port Lympne's lower lion runs look(ed) naturalistic (in a rustic way) at Port Lympne; in London, they would appear ramshackle, as if in a state of disrepair. So I understand why such 'high-end' redevelopments are being undertaken at London. Part of this is to do with the 'finish' of the Royal Parks, in which London Zoo is set. Only in recent years have the paths, planting, kiosks and signage seemed of the same standard within the zoo as it is outside. More than this though, London recieves greater public and media scrutiny of its zoo inspections, and some of its deaths (gorillas, penguins). Born Free I think definitely understand that a press release on a welfare issue at London will circulate more widely than for one of the lesser-known zoos (plus the historic relationship with ZSL that goes back to their inception in the 1980s), and I think ZSL must be acutely aware they are scrutinised because of their profile.

I also think that London will continue to slowly reduce its mammal and bird collections to a handful of species that can be linked to field conservation projects, and where (often, but not always) they have sustained themselves in the collection through breeding relatively well. Due to its invertebrate, fish and reptile collections, I think nowadays London has a more representative spread of biological diversity (microbes aside) than it ever has; while I get that people posting here often think the public will choose other zoos in the region where there are larger mammal and bird collections, London zoo competes with other London attractions, not other zoos. Its marketing and PR team has matured over the last two decades to the extent that a new enclosure for an existing species can generate revenue – new arrivals aren't needed. In a sense, advertising new species as 'new for 2014' is almost a tactic confined to lower-profile/less-established collections. I disagree that London has no money, its fundraisers have shown that very expensive exhibits, for existing species (or very similar in the case of the penguins) can be funded during a recession. That's quite an achievement for an institution that receives no public funding. Compare this to the recession of the early 90s, when London almost closed - twice.

Thinking back to the plans for 'Penguin Beach', where distinct areas were earmarked for groups of three penguin species (including little blue, which hasn't been kept successfully in the UK), its conceivable that the final development might not actually house Hanuman langurs or hornbills alongside the lions. London does have a long history of keeping Hanuman (grey) langurs, but I wonder about the rationale of purpose-building a facilitiy for a non-endangered species which will be sourced essentially to act as a prop for the lions, while displacing several endangered primates (which would of course have to move anyway). Bearing in mind the mock temple slightly limits its purpose beyond one species of langur. While zoos generally avoid sensationalising their animals these days, with animals not displayed as to magnify their stature, 'fierceness', or indeed strangeness, I think the 'disneyfication' of animals in exhibits designed to make them appear relatable (and, I would argue, passive and harmless), which can be traced back to places like Drusillas in the 80s (where the previous owners in interviews cited the influence of some US zoo exhibit design and which was explicity a childrens' zoo) has crept into Regent's Park in the last few years, from 'Happy Families' to 'Meet the Monkeys' and 'Penguin Beach'. I think this can be as dishonest a way of exhibiting animals as older, more sensationalised, exhibits. So a fake temple for the langurs to climb over, despite the fact it does reference a factual occurance in the range country, could be very easy to get wrong in terms of context.

Furthermore, the inclusion of the temple and village well in the designs I think has the potential to be quite offensive, and would hope ZSL involved people of South Asian heritage, and both British and Indian nationalities in its consulting process. It would be a real shame if the message conveyed at this exhibit was one of overpopulation and unsustainable use, as I think repetition of this meme without explaining its nuances and historical context will become increasingly called out for the racist slant that it is. I wonder if space will be given to the story of the indigenous communites relocated from Palpur-Kuno to make way for the proposed lion reintroduction, given that that representatives for these people, who cooperated in leaving their lands to be resettled elsewhere, argue that most of the rehabilitation package has not materialised? My point being, if you're going to reference humans in storytelling an exhibit, who ensures balance and truth in terms of the bigger picture? I would be very impressed if London actually tackles all thesse issues in its interpretation.

People posting on here do seem genuinely sad at the loss of species, and I think that small cats are not high on the list for a zoo where less identifiable mammals sort of have to earn their keep by being active (mongoose, bearded pigs), or friendly (aardvarks, tamandua). I don't think the zoo would still have persevered with, say, Malayan tapir, had they not bred well, and I will be genuinely surprised if they replaced the anoa. I think that longer-term housing of large monkeys in cages is unlikely given contemporary exhibit design, and the only location London could really house these species in open enclosures with vegetation would be the North and South banks (there was no indication on the 2007 masterplan that ZSL planned to site primates here (aside from the Snowdon aviary being used as a colobus exhibit). However, folivorous or destructive species (langurs and macaques) are probably the least suitable candidates for this. Maybe the servals will be moved to 'Into Africa' somehow (possibly moving the warthogs up to the yard behind the giraffe), but I don't think they were acquired on conservation grounds – servals are relatively duirnal, compatible in pairs, and don't seem to pace overly in captivity – so I think they were essentially a low-risk space filler for the public after the lynx moved on.

It is interesting that the old tiger enclosure isn't included in the design. It would make sense that the lions might be housed here temporarily while the 'forest' enclosure and expansion of their existing house is done, assuming the building work doesn't cause them stress, although I can see that coming in for a lot of criticism and won't be surprised if another institution take the lions temporarily (WHF springs to mind, having taken in the previous tigers). However, as the tiger house is still shown as being redeveloped in the plans, it doesn't explain why the outside enclosure wouldn't be, especially because something will have to be done to remove at least the rest of the structure not used in the lion exhibit. Possibly the plans or the 'Indian Wetlands' of the 2007 masterplan still stand, especially given the new views of Three Island Pond that will be opened up through the lion development, and the recent press about pinioning which implied a flight aviary might be in the pipeline for its remaining pinioned birds, which at least will mean flamingo chicks can be left unpinioned. If a netted aviary is planned here, its likely some additional space might be used, which would explain the tiger enclosure being set aside. Or there could be plans to add on another, complementary, exhibit at a later date. In terms of existing South Asian species within the living collection, while ZSL could return deer, antelope or gaur to London and extend the Casson enclosure to the boundary of the lion development, I think this is as unlikely as gaur surviving much longer in Europe without new genetic material, although if indeed an Indian Wetlands exhibit (that would broadly fit into a zoogeographic theme) is to follow after the lion development, perhaps plans to do something with Indian ungulates aren't so unlikely?

As for the Mappin Terraces, I actually like the fact that there are bodies preventing inconvenient buildings from being destroyed. There is no way another Mappin Terraces would ever be built – an aquarium with a three (well, two now) level mountain built on top of it.....this is such a marker of its time and should absolutely be preserved. While some posts here have enthused about it being used as a lion habitat, there's no suitable indoor accommodation on the existing structure, and I can't imagine English Heritage approving the amount of fencing required to contain anything that can jump the height that large cats are albe to, let alone poles and netting to house vultures. I think more innovative options are possible for using the whole structure, but really the Outback is visually impressive to those visitors not worried that there isn't a swamp wallaby lurking alongside more common species (red kangaroos aren't exactly common in UK zoos though). The fact that ZSL didn't capitalise on this as a walkthrough exhibit suggests this is either a short-term use for the terraces, or a mixture of (rightly) disability legislation and listed status restrictions have prevented new paths and walkways into the enclosure being created.

I do agree with other posters that vast exhibits with many metres of viewing galleries but with occupants that may stay for hours in the same corner of the exhibit makes the rest of the one-way system fairly unstimulating for visitors, regardless of the interp. I'm not clear to what extent this will be employed in the new lion development, but I also think there's something a little distancing about glass, ironically; it's too much like a screen, and the acoustics and smells of the public gallery often replace those from the enclosure. The double-meshed tiger walkway at Thrigby springs to mind....it's not the tigers themselves, but the proximity of visitors to the tigers (which often rest against the wire) that seems to be photographed so often, and having seen this in person I would agree that its more exciting to be six inches away from a tiger through two sheets of mesh than it is to be one inch away through glass.

It will be interesting to see whether the plans to house up to 12 lions are realised, given the reliance on new genes into the European population. I'm also curious to see where ZSL intend to conduct its in situ work. Are they going to assist with the existing population in Gujarat as it spreads beyong the Gir Forest, or with the opposing camp trying to expropriate some of the Gujarat lions for release in Madhya Pradesh? If the latter, there's little chance Gujarat state will entrust Europe with any more lions (even from its zoos), given that it's currently appealing the 2013 Supreme Court decision forcing them to hand over some lions to the project at Palpur-Kuno. In terms of the Kuno reintroduction project, if lions are relocated to more tourist-friendly, more beautiful parts of India than the dry scrub semi-desert of the gir forest region, and Gujarat loses out on revenue from tourism, I wonder whether the people of Gujarat will continue to see the lions as an asset worthy of the same tolerance and protection they currently afford them? I don't have figures for how much the local economy benefits from tourism as a result of the lions, again it would be impressive to see ZSL tackle this in their interp and publicity.

I'm not aware of whether there are pure-bred captive lions in Indian zoos outside of Gujarat? There are certainly some captive African and hybrid lions in Indian zoos. If no new genes are forthcoming, the lion enclosure at London will have a short lifespan before it needs to be re-imagined for African lions, or for lions to be another species to no longer occupy Regent's park.

Pygmy hippo relocation
A few posts have been written about whether its appropriate to use school children in designing renewable-energy systems for heating the pools in the new exhibit. There are precedents with this – Drusillas had primary school kids design its meerkat exhibit in 1988 – an enclosure which looks modern by todays standards (its size being the only aspect from which modern meerkat enclosures have moved on somewhat) – and last year's meerkat/porcupine exhibit at the IOW zoo, which again involved schoolchildren in its design.

It looks to me as if London is investing a small amount to cut costs longer-term without really changing the old tapir facility structurally, I'm assuming because the hippos spend long periods submerged (unlike the tapirs which tend to take intermittent 'dips' when active.) and so require more robust heating (heating of the outdoor pool in addition to the indoor one is commendable and may lead to more use of the outdoor enclosure year-round). I think the bigger issue is whether its an appropriate land area for a species which likes to graze, and which seems to do better in larger enclosures where there is some grazing available. Perhaps in some ways London are fortunate in having what appears to be a non-breeding pair of hippo that seem to be mixed for the majority of the time, rather than a breeding pair that would need to be kept separately most of the year, on what is not a vast area of land. At least the house, designed for rotating 3 or 4 larger species with more stalls than outdoor yards originally, provides a very generous winter area, perhaps a factor in why the tapir did so well here (hopefully the Casson indoor quarters will not prove to be less preferable). The hippos were earmarked for the site of the current zoo entrance in the 2007 masterplan; I'm assuming the broadwalk exit that opened a couple of years ago was a scaled-down version of the proposed relocation of the zoo entrance to this side of the boundary, and that the entrance site is no longer proposed for this species.

I think ZSL miss a trick in not siting the hippos adjacent to the gorillas, where, in the way some city zoos on the continent do, they could have modified the moat to give the hippos access (and even the gorilla exhibit for night grazing during warmer months), partly because I think that in just a few years' time, the giraffes enclosure is going to stick out like a sore thumb at London. Maybe this is a blind spot for ZSL, given 'Into Africa' opened in 2006 but, short of demolishing the upper Cotton terrace houses and moats, and giving the whole level over to the giraffes, I think displaying them in a yard (against the backdrop of a brick wall) will generate a lot of criticism in coming years, as more open paddocks for giraffe pop up at other parks around the country. Granted, London's giraffes ironically get more space in winter than many of those kept in lush paddocks elsewhere (and have the stimulation of limited but living browse in the adjacent trees during summer), but public perception I think will harden, especially with an untimely death or the press picking up on stereotypic behaviour. I do not believe London chooses to maintain a single-sex group of hybrid females over a breeding group of a subspecies for reasons of strategic importance to the breeding programmes. I think they won't risk breeding in the current enclosure due to issues in the past when they had a breeding group but equally I think it will become increasingly hard to justify even a less risky group of hybrid females without some real expansion of the enclosure. As for the zebras, what even needs to be said? So for the hippos to move here on anything but a temporary basis is to my mind a nail in the coffin for the long-term prospects of giraffe at Regent's Park.
 
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It was an interesting and well constructed post, but not surprisingly I can't agree with much of it!

I thought it a really interesting and well constructed post - and agreed with the vast majority of it!

I don't share the concerns that @communityzoo has with displaying non-endangered species, and, in an ideal world, I would like to have the genuinely diverse collection that I think many here would crave (and I disagree that the ZSL collection needs to get any smaller).

But I certainly agree whole-heartedly with the comments about the Mappins - many people grumble about listed-building status, both at zoos and elsewhere, but short-term expediency really shouldn't be allowed to justify cultural vandalism - and the destruction or fundamental altering of historical buildings would represent such cultural vandalism!
 
It was an interesting and well constructed post, but not surprisingly I can't agree with much of it!

Not sure that I agree with it all either, but well-thought out argument is always nice to read!
 
I apologise if this post is long or in fact repeats what others have said, but writing a post that I feel pulled to and watching Bayern Munich is not the easiest thing to do.

my first visit to London Zoo was I think back in 1996 and of course it was full of 'big name' animals. Elephant's, Rhino's, Gorillas, Chimps, Leopards etc. what became clear to me over the years is that although it was great seeing so many animals, species such as the Elephants and Rhinos really were not suited to the site. yes its historic to keep them at London zoo, but as much as I love zoo history, especially London and whipsnade's, I much prefer these animals to have been moved to better suited collections.

My last three visits to London Zoo have been different experiences. the first in early 2008 was disappointing, it was a grey day, very damp and cold and the zoo looked sadly worn down. a few weeks later I went back (for a school project) and with the sun out, the zoo looked better but still a bit rough around the edges. Late spring last year I went and was really pleased to see the collection look in a much better state. Fresh paint, great new tiger and penguin enclosures looked great and there was a much better feel about the place. yet sadly the Lion area still looked worn (which I will get too in a second). The zoo may have had less animals then my first visit, but for me seeing less animals in bigger better enclosures is much better then seeing loads of animals in small, old enclosures.

i have read a lot about the new lion plans and read a lot of comments on this site and I personally feel some have missed the point. in this day and age, especially in the UK, zoo's must do all they can to pull in visitors. as much as we would love, and im sure they would as well, it is not always possible to show rare and exciting creatures. too the man/woman on the street a Meerkat is more of a crowd puller then lets say a Takin or a Aardwolf. my point being, for a zoo of London zoo's size, making sure they keep as many 'big name' animals as possible is crucial. Gorilla's, Tiger's and Lion's are endangered but also crowd pullers.

for me personally the new lion plans look fantastic, we can all agree that the current lion area is below standards and as sad as i will be to see a historic part of the zoo go, if it means better space for the lions im all for it. the idea of a temple could either be great or tacky but i will withhold judgment until the exhibit is open.

I would love London zoo to go back to its glory days but the sad fact is that it is just not big enough for loads of species. the new lion enclosure is needed, a great plan and will help the zoo move into the future.

I hope i have not offended anyone, or come across as being rude, its just my personal view on it. Also apologies for my spelling and grammar but having learning difficulties, trying to type and watching football is not the easiest thing to do!
 
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