Of course, but the reality seems to be that these days they just shuffle animals around into whatever enclosures become available. Exceptions being of course the major builds like the new Lion one. But for other( read 'unimportant' in this case given they have other Monkeys on show) species I think those days are long gone.
ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2014
- Thread starter sooty mangabey
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Of course, but the reality seems to be that these days they just shuffle animals around into whatever enclosures become available. Exceptions being of course the major builds like the new Lion one. But for other( read 'unimportant' in this case given they have other Monkeys on show) species I think those days are long gone.
I have a guidebook from 1994....reading it is just depressing now. Back then the collection was so diverse and extensive, todays london zoo is a shadow of it's former self. There will come a point when there just isnt the critical mass of exhibits there to justify going.
It's not even as if the new exhibits they've built are that spectacular. ....gorilla kingdom is a mess of hot wire and children banging on glass, and tiger territory is still a glorified cage and offers little privacy or space (compare to paignton, howletts, longleat). LOL almost looks to me that the actual cats were an afterthought.
It's not even as if the new exhibits they've built are that spectacular. ....gorilla kingdom is a mess of hot wire and children banging on glass, and tiger territory is still a glorified cage and offers little privacy or space (compare to paignton, howletts, longleat). LOL almost looks to me that the actual cats were an afterthought.
One of the more sensible posts I have read on London in recent times! Look at a 1984 guidebook and the losses will appear much worse still! Obviously in the 21st century there had to be a reduction in species, but it didn't need to go as far as it has!
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
London Zoo in 1994 was coming out of the closure crisis. The collection had been reduced by a third and I think many of us quite sincerely expected to see some of the losses recovered - in terms of species numbers, if not species lost.
The mantra at that time was to make use of the existing buildings and adapt them for suitable species. Not quite how present management are doing it....
The mantra at that time was to make use of the existing buildings and adapt them for suitable species. Not quite how present management are doing it....
A new young kinkajou has arrived at London Zoo. The six-month old male arrived from a collection in Scotland where he was hand-reared. Once he becomes older and more confident, he will be used in the Animals in Action demonstrations.
?Forrest? the Kinkajou at London Zoo - ZooBorns
?Forrest? the Kinkajou at London Zoo - ZooBorns
I've got a 1969 guidebook.
Read and weep!
Not only because of the reduction in species, but also the reduction of content in the guidebook. Which was hugely educational in those days.
earliest I've got is 1920s. So many different animals...
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Don't get TOO nostalgic. Even in 1969, London kept way too many solitary specimens and far too many larger taxa in painfully cramped conditions.
A better comparison is with what you'll see on ZooChat being kept in Antwerp, Frankfurt and Vienna. It IS possible for very old zoos with limited space to maintain diversity.
A better comparison is with what you'll see on ZooChat being kept in Antwerp, Frankfurt and Vienna. It IS possible for very old zoos with limited space to maintain diversity.
Poor London Zoo is hamstrung in what it can do as a lot of its buildings are now listed . The Elephant House for instance which sits in the middle of the site is an ugly 1960's monstrosity but they are stuck with it . The 1930's penguin pool can't go and I believe the Snowdon aviary. likewise as the Mappin Terraces The Roundhouse which you all refer to is another and perhaps although slightly older could be used as a temporary home which more or less is what it is.Perhaps a clever architect could work a better solution or perhaps like a lot of house builders they should just knock em down and pay the fine. I think Tiger Territory Gorilla Kingdom and Penguin beach are fine exhibits and I think that is the way forward for London less animals but exceptional displays .
I would suspect that among the major reasons for the near closure of the Zoo in 1990s was a growing concern over the inadequacies of the facilities to house such a huge (albeit interesting) collection. Why there should have been any anticipation of increasing species diversity after this "rightsizing" of the collection and the beginning of the massive task of rebuilding the Zoo to meet acceptable standards?
The major reason for imminent closure was the refusal of City Council and central government to show any kind of support for their national zoo and the consequent rather negative cash flow situation. It needs remembering that if it had not been for a foresigthed Middle Eastern Emir we all would not be talking about the pros and cons of a new Lion Terraces and downsized collection of sorts.
Over and above ZSL is a scientific society that undertakes quite a few government tasks in biodiversity conservation, research et cetera. This all requires good finance and a supportive government. And to this day in my humble opinion national government is lacking in this endeavour ...
Speaking of the Snowdon, has anyone else done the ZSL membership feedback survey? There were specific questions about the Snowdon Aviary, asking if making it a primate walk-through would entice more visitors across there.
Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
The scientific work that Z.S.L does. is often overlooked and yes I remember the one million pound donation given to the zoo when it was in serious difficulty, as well as other donations given including children sending their pocket money in. One thing I have noticed on zoochat when we are discussing London is that most of the members who comment about how the animal collection is a lot smaller than what it was in years previous are of an age when they can remember a much larger collection, perhaps London Zoo had too many animals in those days?.I also notice that younger members who were not around then, often comment, favourably after visiting London Zoo, many for the first time, that I find encouraging.
It's true that back in the 1960's and 1970's there *were* too many species crammed in - the issue to my eyes is the fact it has continued to get smaller and less diverse well beyond the point where it could be chalked up to welfare.
I suspect no one would claim that in 1994 the zoo still had far too many species crammed in - let alone two decades later. Yet the collection was significantly smaller in 2004 when compared to 1994 - and the collection now is significantly smaller when compared to 2004! In the mere two years between my first visit to London Zoo, in August 2012, and my most recent visit in August 2014 the change was pretty stark - and we know there are further species due to leave or go offshow as a result of the Lion development.
And if one believes the reason for this loss of diversity and species is still a lack of adequate space, let us not forget that there is currently a house whose inside area is now entirely offshow, having been rendered thus in a quiet and surreptitious method, and which would be perfect for multiple smaller tanks and enclosures for odd little bits and bobs!
Do you mean the one where the notice on the doors says 'Closed Today'? -as in just for today, though in reality I think it is everyday...
Do you mean the one where the notice on the doors says 'Closed Today'? -as in just for today, though in reality I think it is everyday...
Got it in one
when I first visited in 2012 the interior *did* have various tanks and small enclosures, albeit not for anything particularly unusual, so it is not as if the use I propose is impossible either.
When & how did you receive the survey? Post or email? I haven't seen one asking questions like that.
I think the point is that there are plenty of unused areas of the zoo including the Casson building that could be used to boost the collection with smaller carnivores and other small mammals. London's minimal carnivore collection contains nothing particularly unusual or rarely seen elsewhere in the UK. Just look at what is on offer at the RSCC in a very small area - there really are no excuses!Got it in one
