ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2016

I haven't seen it yet, so won't criticise too much, but a zoo as small as London with so few mammals ( only 2 cat species on show, no elephants, rhino, bears, only 1 great ape, no pinnipeds etc) doesn't have room to take up space with all that tat!! How do they have the space to waste on 2 groups of lions either, it's a joke, £5.2m they boast, I'd have rather seen 5 small cat species in addition to a minor upgrade of the lion area!
Just my opinion!

Yes I agree I would of liked to have see some different mammal species added especially as you say with the lack of them I thought another great ape may well have been a better option but then again London know that lions will draw the crowds in and the theming etc is very easy to advertise which is why I feel they chose LOTL as the next development of London Zoo.
 
Tree Kangaroo - last I heard was that it wouldn't be going onshow for the forseeable future due to them not having anywhere suitable to display it...
 
Tree Kangaroo - last I heard was that it wouldn't be going onshow for the forseeable future due to them not having anywhere suitable to display it...

No further comment needed from me but...... Pathetic!
Just not good enough, £5.2m for all the tat in lotl, but the only tree Kangaroo in England is offshow!
 
Tree Kangaroo - last I heard was that it wouldn't be going onshow for the forseeable future due to them not having anywhere suitable to display it...

I wonder if they thought of that before they decided to take her? Or were they always planning to keep her off-show?

I will say that London is the only zoo where I routinely hear other visitors moaning about the apparent lack of animals, animals that can't see seen, and wondering where the elephants are. I don't think London should go back to keeping elephants or rhino, there isn't the space, but they are going to have to do something considering the moaning that goes on. Moaning visitors are not likely to be returning visitors.
 
I wonder if they thought of that before they decided to take her? Or were they always planning to keep her off-show?

I will say that London is the only zoo where I routinely hear other visitors moaning about the apparent lack of animals, animals that can't see seen, and wondering where the elephants are. I don't think London should go back to keeping elephants or rhino, there isn't the space, but they are going to have to do something considering the moaning that goes on. Moaning visitors are not likely to be returning visitors.

In regards to the moaning, I as a regular visitor to the zoo think it's quite silly to complain about it. As of the present I can think of a dozen or so species that I hardly ever/never see.
Also, as with any zoo, the animals have to have some space where the visitors can't see them, otherwise you get stress in the animals. Don't expect them to be laid out on a silver platter for you to contemplate and enjoy.
Take the Congo Gorilla Forest in Bronx Zoo for example. Their indoor area for their three gorilla groups is hardly onshow, and the gorillas seriously benefit from it. In fact, when I visited over Christmas/New Years I saw barely any animals; gorillas, okapi, mandrills, red river hogs, none of them. But they had spacious exhibits, and clearly very good offshow areas.
 
Ha, sometimes it's difficult to defend my favourite zoo... But really, I think that visitors who expect ABC animals to be on view all the time would be disappointed by any number of zoos that I can think of!
 
the only gripe is that the lions (especially the male) are not always to be seen – but you get that with any good-sized big cat exhibit.

The male is very new to his enclosure anyway, while the females aren't familiar with their redeveloped, enlarged area. That's why on the video I saw they are keeping to their old familiar area and at the opening ceremony were being thrown bits of meat to tempt them to use the new part- see how nervous they looked in it too. That will all change over time I think.
 
No further comment needed from me but...... Pathetic!
Just not good enough, £5.2m for all the tat in lotl, but the only tree Kangaroo in England is offshow!

They may have legitimate reasons for her being offshow. Last I heard she was extremely elderly (a contact of mine in Frankfurt said so at least) so that may be why?

And despite there being 'a lot of tat' in LOTL, when I was there last week people seemed to be enjoying it immensely. And if the public enjoy it, and it provides decent housing for the animals (which it does) then job done, they've got a successful exhibit.
 
They may have legitimate reasons for her being offshow. Last I heard she was extremely elderly (a contact of mine in Frankfurt said so at least) so that may be why?

And despite there being 'a lot of tat' in LOTL, when I was there last week people seemed to be enjoying it immensely. And if the public enjoy it, and it provides decent housing for the animals (which it does) then job done, they've got a successful exhibit.

I actually rather like the tat. I've never been to a Gujarati rail station, but I imagine there's quite a lot of similar tat there too?

Only thing I properly object to is the plastic plants.
 
Completely agree with oflory and Pertinax; the exhibit is extremely smart in regards to describing the landscape and how it feels to live with lions/langurs etc in your hometown. And yes, maybe they don't have entirely Indian species, but the non-Indian ones are just as popular.
I admittedly thought some worrying question marks when I heard about the role-playing, but having watched it it's not entirely dissimilar to the vets thing they were doing over half term, and kids absolutely love it.
Also, Bhanu is new to the zoo and timezone, big cats as we all know don't travel well, and a long-time member told me that in Assiniboine in Winnipeg he was kept inside during the winter anyhow, so not much of a shock he isn't out straight away.
And Pertinax is right about the females, they'll get used to it as time goes on.
 
But really, I think that visitors who expect ABC animals to be on view all the time would be disappointed by any number of zoos that I can think of!

They'd better not visit Apenheul, La Vallee des Singes, Burgers' Zoo or the Paris Zoo! They'd be thoroughly disappointed.
 
In regards to the moaning, I as a regular visitor to the zoo think it's quite silly to complain about it. As of the present I can think of a dozen or so species that I hardly ever/never see.
Also, as with any zoo, the animals have to have some space where the visitors can't see them, otherwise you get stress in the animals. Don't expect them to be laid out on a silver platter for you to contemplate and enjoy.
Take the Congo Gorilla Forest in Bronx Zoo for example. Their indoor area for their three gorilla groups is hardly onshow, and the gorillas seriously benefit from it. In fact, when I visited over Christmas/New Years I saw barely any animals; gorillas, okapi, mandrills, red river hogs, none of them. But they had spacious exhibits, and clearly very good offshow areas.

I agree. As regular visitors/members of zoos you know that you can't expect animals to be just sat there waiting for you to come look at them. We're happy to know that we might see them next time, or later in the day etc. But the occasional visitor probably has different expectations, they come to the zoo, they want to see animals. Maybe if expectations were different (education and signage maybe?) then there would probably be less moaning. It's the 'we haven't seen any elephants, where are the elephants' that winds me up somewhat - London hasn't had elephants for many years, thankfully, but people still expect to see them - expectation and reality at odds.
 
I agree. As regular visitors/members of zoos you know that you can't expect animals to be just sat there waiting for you to come look at them. We're happy to know that we might see them next time, or later in the day etc. But the occasional visitor probably has different expectations, they come to the zoo, they want to see animals. Maybe if expectations were different (education and signage maybe?) then there would probably be less moaning. It's the 'we haven't seen any elephants, where are the elephants' that winds me up somewhat - London hasn't had elephants for many years, thankfully, but people still expect to see them - expectation and reality at odds.

Yeah the elephants thing really ticks me off. I often walk by the information kiosk and hear people having to be explained to why they're no longer at the zoo, and that Whipsnade is their new home. Luckily a lot of them seem satisfied most of the time, but it's still tiring to hear it.
 
This is an interesting discussion. Please forgive lengthy post that follows....

I think there would be very few people who would genuinely argue in favour of having animals in enclosures which made seeing them a 100% certainty, as in some toy zoo. To suggest that people are arguing for such a thing is to practise the art of reductio ad absurdum, I think.

However, what many - myself certainly included - would argue would be that the primary reason for going to a zoo is to see animals. Thus, a visit to London (and, to be fair, to many similar zoos) can be a frustrating experience, for a number of reasons:

1. Enclosures are sometimes set up to make seeing the denizens within very difficult - either through bad design (such as with the anteater enclosure) or by (possibly rightly) really skewing the balance in favour of the animals' needs, rather than the visitors' (such as in the nocturnal house, where the darkness can be very dark!).

2. The extraneous tat described above - which seems to have reached its apotheosis in Land of the Lions - can take precedence over the living animals. David Hancocks once wrote that the actual animal was sometimes only secondary within a zoo exhibit; I fear we are reaching the point where his words are being validated. Some will like this. As is mentioned above, the railway theming is, so far, popular with some visitors. But let us not pretend that it is anything other than gimmicky window-dressing.

3. For a zoo which seems, to a large extent, to be run by its marketing department, there is a curious disdain for visitors sometimes evident at London. Or rather, the visitor who wants to see meerkats, ASCOs and ring-tailed lemurs, and have a suggestion of a lion and a tiger (with entertaining theming....) is served very well. But for someone who wants more than this... back off! If there was an off-show tree kangaroo at any one of twenty or more European zoos, I would know that I would be able to find someone who would be delighted to show it off to an interested visitor. I wouldn't even bother asking at London...

4. ....and connected to this, I just don't think that there are sufficient people at London (or many UK zoos) who are interested in keeping and showing interesting animals for the sake of keeping and showing interesting animals. When the RSCC closed last year, few indeed were the British zoos that were the slightest bit interested in taking on an echidna, a fanaloka, a tarsier - because there just isn't that fascination with biodiversity as a wonder in its own right.

5. Any zoo visitor knows that they cannot guarantee which beasts will be visible, active, doing interesting things, on any given visit. Yesterday, the binturongs were snoozing. Today, the kusimanse are not to be seen. Tomorrow, the striped hyaena are invisible. But, if there is a large collection, then something will be active, something will be showing itself. If all of your animal eggs are in one basket - as with London's tigers - then, if the tigers are inactive (as they often are) then you are simply left with an empty-looking tiger exhibit.

This last point seems, to me, to be the crucial one. If the tiger thing had, as part of its general area, an aviary of south-east Asian birds, some rodent displays, a binturong or two, maybe those who weren't lucky enough to see the tigers in action might see the other things. To be fair, the gorilla and lion areas do have other species, which is good (although in each case it has been done rather crack-handedly).

London Zoo is doing well, with visitor numbers as high as for many years. But they cannot afford complacency. It is remarkable to see that Colchester Zoo now receives more than 900,000 visitors a year - and it is notable that at Colchester one is pretty much guaranteed to see things...
 
I must disagree with all the LOTL negativity, I've heard several family proclaim genuine amazement going around it. Furthermore I would make the case that its the only exhibit in the country (willing to be proven wrong) that seriously looks at the complex and growing issues surrounding large-predator human interaction. Where else in the UK does a zoo attempt to tackle tricky and complex concepts, something I'd like to see more of*

IMO London zoo has been incredibly brave, they could have just produced an enclosure for lions, but here they've had the guts to go after a big concept and deliver it with chutzpah.

*(except for the dwarf mongoose...lol)
 
Great post Sooty! Agree so much with all your points. I think that you have hit the nail on the head with your last point:

5. Any zoo visitor knows that they cannot guarantee which beasts will be visible, active, doing interesting things, on any given visit. Yesterday, the binturongs were snoozing. Today, the kusimanse are not to be seen. Tomorrow, the striped hyaena are invisible. But, if there is a large collection, then something will be active, something will be showing itself. If all of your animal eggs are in one basket - as with London's tigers - then, if the tigers are inactive (as they often are) then you are simply left with an empty-looking tiger exhibit.

An exhibit with a single main-attraction species (like the lions, gorillas., tigers) does tend to fall down if the animals are resting, hiding, etc. Just a few side-displays really could balance out the main display; this has been done quite well in LOTL with the langurs, mongoose, vultures (biogeography notwithstanding), but in other areas the lack of visible/active animals is probably quite off-putting or disappointing for the general visitor.
 
This last point seems, to me, to be the crucial one. If the tiger thing had, as part of its general area, an aviary of south-east Asian birds, some rodent displays, a binturong or two, maybe those who weren't lucky enough to see the tigers in action might see the other things. To be fair, the gorilla and lion areas do have other species, which is good (although in each case it has been done rather crack-handedly).

I think, to an extent, the tapirs and the bearded pigs (and the anoas when they were there) are intended as supplementary species. I thoroughly agree that this doesn't really work, though, and an aviary or a monkey species would have been far better.
 
Considering the Bearded Pigs are liable to disappear within the next year or two, they won't act as a supplementary species for long I fear.
 
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