What? I thought that all fish in zoos, while not all specimen, but at least all species were bred and not wild caught or restocked from the private trade
ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2022
- Thread starter Red Footed Tortoise
- Start date
Was just poking my nose around past projects and developments put forward by ZSL and came across this Masterplan from back in 2012. Would be interesting to know just how much of it still applies and if any of these things are still in the pipeline. Apologies if it's already been posted but as I hadn't seen it before, I was intrigued (it is the document under 'London Zoo Masterplan').
https://idoxpa.westminster.gov.uk/o...s.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=M7O36SRP01R00
In an effort to try and decrypt the somewhat drawling font, I understood the following:
The North Bank
The Snowdon was intended, for a decade at least, to be for Colobus and Turacos. Further East would be an 'Asian Swamp' area for 'Red-crowned cranes, Chinese water deer and muntjac', and further down still a 'Northern Forest' area with '[impossible to discern], Snowy owl, Arctic fox (?) and Ravens'.
Into Africa + Clore etc.
Into Africa meant to stay the same for '10+ years', while the In with the Lemurs area was going to be an Outback Aviary type exhibit.
Current entrance area, Gorillas, Tigers etc.
The current entrance was set to be demolished and make way for a Pygmy hippo exhibit next to the gorillas. It seems they were largely undecided on the Mappins, perhaps becoming part of the 'Wild Indonesia' area. Wild Indonesia was intended to be largely what that area is today, with gibbons, bearded pigs (babirusa now) komodo dragons etc.
Barclay Court and environs, down to Blackburn and BUGS
This area was going to be the new entrance, with major shifts to allow ticket booths etc. Where the Galapagos tortoise exhibit is currently was intended to be a play area. Part of where the penguin exhibit is currently was intended for an Indian Swamp exhibit with cranes and some other taxa (indiscernible), which then morphs into a South American area, with a large Humboldt penguin, Inca tern, Black necked swan etc aviary, followed by an Anteater and Rhea exhibit, Capybaras and capuchins and finally the existing squirrel monkeys. The LOTL aviary was meant for Indian peafowl and Indian vultures if I understand correctly.
So a fairly ambitious plan in places, and wish some parts of it had gone ahead. The Asian Swamp and Northern forest areas sound delightful and not too expensive to develop but I don't think it would have been particularly profitable or popular with visitors. The entrance and South American areas would probably have been the biggest changes - the entrance change makes geographical sense in that it would be closer to not only the car park but also the tube station, as well as making the Barclay Court the main focal point of the zoo, which I think would be beneficial as the current entrance is perhaps not suited to its role. The South American area is one of those things that they followed through in a sort of '20%' manner - macaws, squirrel monkeys, the anteaters (now gone) as well as the penguin area.
Hopefully this hasn't been posted previously, or at least not so recently that most members haven't seen it before - I just found it interesting.
https://idoxpa.westminster.gov.uk/o...s.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=M7O36SRP01R00
In an effort to try and decrypt the somewhat drawling font, I understood the following:
The North Bank
The Snowdon was intended, for a decade at least, to be for Colobus and Turacos. Further East would be an 'Asian Swamp' area for 'Red-crowned cranes, Chinese water deer and muntjac', and further down still a 'Northern Forest' area with '[impossible to discern], Snowy owl, Arctic fox (?) and Ravens'.
Into Africa + Clore etc.
Into Africa meant to stay the same for '10+ years', while the In with the Lemurs area was going to be an Outback Aviary type exhibit.
Current entrance area, Gorillas, Tigers etc.
The current entrance was set to be demolished and make way for a Pygmy hippo exhibit next to the gorillas. It seems they were largely undecided on the Mappins, perhaps becoming part of the 'Wild Indonesia' area. Wild Indonesia was intended to be largely what that area is today, with gibbons, bearded pigs (babirusa now) komodo dragons etc.
Barclay Court and environs, down to Blackburn and BUGS
This area was going to be the new entrance, with major shifts to allow ticket booths etc. Where the Galapagos tortoise exhibit is currently was intended to be a play area. Part of where the penguin exhibit is currently was intended for an Indian Swamp exhibit with cranes and some other taxa (indiscernible), which then morphs into a South American area, with a large Humboldt penguin, Inca tern, Black necked swan etc aviary, followed by an Anteater and Rhea exhibit, Capybaras and capuchins and finally the existing squirrel monkeys. The LOTL aviary was meant for Indian peafowl and Indian vultures if I understand correctly.
So a fairly ambitious plan in places, and wish some parts of it had gone ahead. The Asian Swamp and Northern forest areas sound delightful and not too expensive to develop but I don't think it would have been particularly profitable or popular with visitors. The entrance and South American areas would probably have been the biggest changes - the entrance change makes geographical sense in that it would be closer to not only the car park but also the tube station, as well as making the Barclay Court the main focal point of the zoo, which I think would be beneficial as the current entrance is perhaps not suited to its role. The South American area is one of those things that they followed through in a sort of '20%' manner - macaws, squirrel monkeys, the anteaters (now gone) as well as the penguin area.
Hopefully this hasn't been posted previously, or at least not so recently that most members haven't seen it before - I just found it interesting.
Charles
Well-Known Member
You never know, the bit nearby monkey valley may still become an Asian swamp area
Sadly when it comes to Fish a lot is still caught straight from the wild. A lot of species don't even have any or barely success with breeding in captivity and its more economical to still do wild captures.
That seems very anti-conservation...
Sadly, I, along with most aquaria owners, will tell you that, unless you are extremely skilled and insanely lucky, not many are self sustainable.
Many species are hurt by wild collecting, but some fish we see as exotic are as common as minnows in the UK.
Someone was only last week telling me about the massive number of Bettas he saw, "just swimming in ditches", while on holiday.
There is a new masterplan for both sites, which will be shared more widely later this year. It is a different vision lets say
Point taken. Depending on the number, that’d be like seeing hundreds or even thousands of dollars just lying in a ditch in New Zealand.
Many people in these places are quite poor and do make a living collecting tropical fish which would be in their own interest to look after the streams and forests where the fish live,these people could try and seek out some other way to survive like logging or some other destructive way perhaps this is the lesser of the two evils
I say this as someone who is a huge fan of the zoo... Has London Zoo ever followed through on a master plan? Genuine question, I always hear master plans for it referred to in a rueful, past-tense of what could have been!There is a new masterplan for both sites, which will be shared more widely later this year. It is a different vision lets say
Not entirely, but it is clear that at least a decent part of the masterplan linked upthread was followed through on. The masterplan is generally a guideline of what direction the zoo wants to go in and what exhibits could be fit in around the zoo, rather than necessarily a statement of absolute intent. Between a project being mentioned on the masterplan and the construction for that project commencing, numerous discussions take place evaluating profitability, costs, potential sources of revenue, advertising and of course physical feasibility. Hence all of what you see in a masterplan is very unlikely to become reality because it is more of a 'wishlist' per se.
Good to hear, thanks for the explanation!
Kalaw
Well-Known Member
Well, I just visited London today.
It was a really fun visit. I have never seen the tamanduas, fruit bats, sunbirds (of both species!) or galagos so active!
However there were two reasons behind my visit.
The first of these was to see the Pygmy Slow Loris, who arrived in the March of this year, after my last visit, and are a species that often evades me in zoos, much to my annoyance. I had hoped that his would finally be my chance to see them, and indeed it was, and they were very active! While in Night Life, I noticed that the first enclosure, signed for Malagasy Giant Jumping Rats, was instead home to an unsigned Grey Slender Loris. I am not sure if the jumping rats were in there or not (although if they were, then this was my first visit not seeing any).
The Monkey Valley was the other of these reasons, and sadly I didn't get to see it. For the first and last two hours of the day, the enclosure was closed to let the monkeys get some rest, which I was not aware of prior to my visit. In fairness to the zoo, the second closure was warned about on their website, but they have no excuse for the first closure. For the remainder of the day, when it was open, we were turned away because of some issue with the door. Teething problems, I suppose. It wasn't the zoo's fault by any means, but it was a bit of a shame.
A few other notes from my visit:
- It is interesting to read about the bird collection upthread, as I did notice on my visit that the Blackburn Pavilion looked better-stocked than it has at any other point in my lifetime. Additionally, several birds were making use of the outdoor areas, and I am fairly certain that every outdoor aviary barring that for the Wrinkled Hornbill had at least one bird using it. When I next visit, most of my day will probably be spent there ensuring that I see all the birds very well and get photos of them.
- Common Emerald Doves were a nice addition to Bird Safari amidst all the ibis and storks.
- Good progress is being made on the new Reptile & Amphibian House. Many vivariums in the old building are empty with signage stating that they have moved out, with a caption below mentioning the new house. I look forward to seeing it!
- Sulawesi Crested Macaques now roam the former colobus enclosure.
- The remaining North bank of the river is still fenced off, and something new is being built.
A few questions:
- Does anybody know the reason behind turning Meet the Monkeys into a dead end?
- According to an article I found online (World's Largest Colobus Monkey Walk-Through Comes To London), there were plans to mix the colobus with African Grey Parrots, other primates, and 'forest antelope' in the future. Are these plans still possibilities?
It was a really fun visit. I have never seen the tamanduas, fruit bats, sunbirds (of both species!) or galagos so active!
However there were two reasons behind my visit.
The first of these was to see the Pygmy Slow Loris, who arrived in the March of this year, after my last visit, and are a species that often evades me in zoos, much to my annoyance. I had hoped that his would finally be my chance to see them, and indeed it was, and they were very active! While in Night Life, I noticed that the first enclosure, signed for Malagasy Giant Jumping Rats, was instead home to an unsigned Grey Slender Loris. I am not sure if the jumping rats were in there or not (although if they were, then this was my first visit not seeing any).
The Monkey Valley was the other of these reasons, and sadly I didn't get to see it. For the first and last two hours of the day, the enclosure was closed to let the monkeys get some rest, which I was not aware of prior to my visit. In fairness to the zoo, the second closure was warned about on their website, but they have no excuse for the first closure. For the remainder of the day, when it was open, we were turned away because of some issue with the door. Teething problems, I suppose. It wasn't the zoo's fault by any means, but it was a bit of a shame.
A few other notes from my visit:
- It is interesting to read about the bird collection upthread, as I did notice on my visit that the Blackburn Pavilion looked better-stocked than it has at any other point in my lifetime. Additionally, several birds were making use of the outdoor areas, and I am fairly certain that every outdoor aviary barring that for the Wrinkled Hornbill had at least one bird using it. When I next visit, most of my day will probably be spent there ensuring that I see all the birds very well and get photos of them.
- Common Emerald Doves were a nice addition to Bird Safari amidst all the ibis and storks.
- Good progress is being made on the new Reptile & Amphibian House. Many vivariums in the old building are empty with signage stating that they have moved out, with a caption below mentioning the new house. I look forward to seeing it!
- Sulawesi Crested Macaques now roam the former colobus enclosure.
- The remaining North bank of the river is still fenced off, and something new is being built.
A few questions:
- Does anybody know the reason behind turning Meet the Monkeys into a dead end?
- According to an article I found online (World's Largest Colobus Monkey Walk-Through Comes To London), there were plans to mix the colobus with African Grey Parrots, other primates, and 'forest antelope' in the future. Are these plans still possibilities?
Glad you enjoyed your visit, @Kalaw .
Meet the Monkeys being a dead end has foxed me for some time, seems slightly silly. My thought would be it may have become tricky for the keepers to keep an eye on people coming in from both directions, but there may be a more cogent reason.
Nothing seems to be joining the colobus for the foreseeable, sadly. They make a better exhibit at the moment than I thought they were going to, admittedly, but a few grey parrots would bring it to life. On that note, it has seemed like a misstep to me, the last few times I've been, that there are no birds or lizards in the new tortoise house. It seems like an exhibit that needs a bit of extra pizzazz.
There are still Jumping rats in that exhibit, although typically I now only see them first thing in the morning.
They Blackburn pavilion is indeed looking quite a lot better - having said that some of the indoor aviaries in the entrance room could do with a bit of work; not sure whether that is actually possible but…
As for the outdoor aviaries, I think it really does depend on the time. Generally if the lorikeets are lit most other birds tend to be too.
Visited quickly today - absolutely massive crowds, as you'd expect on a sunny Summer holiday Saturday - I'd be surprised if they were taking any less than a million on days like these as there were easily 25,000 people around the place.
My main intention was to enter the Snowdon but the queue to do so was absolutely immense - the line extended right down the bridge to the entrance of the African area...
The colobus did appear to be using the tall poles and seemed quite active so fingers crossed they'll keep it up.
Tigers were nice and showy towards the end of the day, with the cubs having hidden in the bushes at the back of the enclosure but coming out intermittently after some coaxing from mum. Will post some photos in due course.
My main intention was to enter the Snowdon but the queue to do so was absolutely immense - the line extended right down the bridge to the entrance of the African area...
The colobus did appear to be using the tall poles and seemed quite active so fingers crossed they'll keep it up
. Tigers were nice and showy towards the end of the day, with the cubs having hidden in the bushes at the back of the enclosure but coming out intermittently after some coaxing from mum. Will post some photos in due course.
It's being turned into a Museum.