I checked the Historic England website before writing my post
ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2019
- Thread starter Crowthorne
- Start date
Sometimes I wonder if supporting London Zoo is similar to supporting a low-tier football team. There are occasional highs, but so many terrible, terrible lows. It would be easier, and probably better for my stress levels, to switch allegiance to a more successful zoo such as Chester, but I'm so invested in London I wouldn't dream of doing so (I used to know a Watford FC supporter, and that was how they described supporting that particular team).
I do think London could make some relatively 'easy' modifications and additions in the short-term, such as bringing in some noisier and/or active animals to add to the ambiance (my choice would be a pinniped or giant otters, maybe bush dogs. Inca terns would also be a nice choice, and probably easy to source). However, London does seem to be increasingly stagnating, as much as I hate to admit it. So much of it needs so much work, even just basic maintenance as mentioned above re: the outdoor tamarin and marmoset enclosures. That's basic horticulture and enclosure maintenance. The Casson is basically dead space, especially since the inside was closed off. I used to think it would be an excellent building for a zoo museum, and they should have made more of the fact you could walk around inside some of the old rhino stalls, and still see the scratches on the doors from their horns!
I'm not entirely sure what direction London is going in now. It really lost something for me when they got rid of (I nearly wrote 'destroyed') the Big Cat Terraces, and replaced them with LotL. As much as I don't hate LotL as much as some, parts of it really leave me feeling cold and angry. London feels quite empty sometimes, and that is sad. Compared to my recent visit to Dudley (with all its flaws in mind) where you could in places turn 360 degrees and see an enclosure in each direction, most of which were simple but effective, yet took the history of the zoo and its buildings into careful consideration.
London has good points, and I love the Clore/Moonlight World, the Cotton Terraces, the Blackburn Pavillion, Penguin Beach and the Parrot aviaries, and the few remaining parts of the Sobell Pavillion, and the Reptile House if I'm in a herpetological mood, but these are generally the only places I linger.
I do think London could make some relatively 'easy' modifications and additions in the short-term, such as bringing in some noisier and/or active animals to add to the ambiance (my choice would be a pinniped or giant otters, maybe bush dogs. Inca terns would also be a nice choice, and probably easy to source). However, London does seem to be increasingly stagnating, as much as I hate to admit it. So much of it needs so much work, even just basic maintenance as mentioned above re: the outdoor tamarin and marmoset enclosures. That's basic horticulture and enclosure maintenance. The Casson is basically dead space, especially since the inside was closed off. I used to think it would be an excellent building for a zoo museum, and they should have made more of the fact you could walk around inside some of the old rhino stalls, and still see the scratches on the doors from their horns!
I'm not entirely sure what direction London is going in now. It really lost something for me when they got rid of (I nearly wrote 'destroyed') the Big Cat Terraces, and replaced them with LotL. As much as I don't hate LotL as much as some, parts of it really leave me feeling cold and angry. London feels quite empty sometimes, and that is sad. Compared to my recent visit to Dudley (with all its flaws in mind) where you could in places turn 360 degrees and see an enclosure in each direction, most of which were simple but effective, yet took the history of the zoo and its buildings into careful consideration.
London has good points, and I love the Clore/Moonlight World, the Cotton Terraces, the Blackburn Pavillion, Penguin Beach and the Parrot aviaries, and the few remaining parts of the Sobell Pavillion, and the Reptile House if I'm in a herpetological mood, but these are generally the only places I linger.
Some really strong and honest comments by Crowthorne which match my feelings for London Zoo. On my visits I sometimes feel that I've walked into a "closing down sale" The whole area around the Casson House area needs to be uplifted. 2 bearded pigs, 1 tiger, a tapir ( if you are lucky) 2 muntjac and 2 camels hardly inspire regular visitors.
I wish I knew the current thinking with Senior Management as regards the animal collection, baffled and a little bit sad
I wish I knew the current thinking with Senior Management as regards the animal collection, baffled and a little bit sad
Am I right in thinking that Ellish came from Ireland and is she a hybrid? Very sad news keepers must be devastated
Update I've just read an old post that says all 3 are hybrids
Very sad news, glad I got to see them all together last weekend
@gentle lemur: Sorry for the slow reply, but thanks for your thoughtful response.
To steal an Aaron Sorkin-ism, this is like comparing driving to the shops with going to the moon. The Casson and especially the Mappins are on a different scale to the challenges Bristol faced. When we consider like-for-like, London has renovated its historic structures just as well as Bristol. The Blackburn Pavilion is brilliant. The Terrace Restaurant is tasteful. The Giraffe House is pure magic. We’ll see whether the much larger Snowdon Aviary project is also successful, but I don’t think “Bristol did something well, so London can do something vast” is a fair argument.
Again, I think you’re being too hard on London. B.U.G.S., in my opinion, is the best zoo exhibit in the UK. It’s architecturally striking, innovative, genuinely educational, and exciting to boot (spider walk-through!). I wish the rest of the zoo were built in its image. Bug (sic) World is also very nice and the behind-the-scenes work is stellar, but parts are a bit tatty and I don’t understand why you think it’s a better display.
Bristol wins on gorillas, I agree, but aren’t we forgetting about lions? Whatever your gripes with Land of Lions, you’d be hard-pressed to argue Bristol’s enclosure comes close. London also has very pleasant exhibits for tigers, penguins, squirrel monkeys, pygmy hippos, etc. And the oft-heard argument that Bristol’s developments are more tasteful was debunked when they added a high-ropes course and crashed airplane.
London does need filling out, but they recently added gibbons and Bristol could have more exhibits, too (e.g. your suggestion of replacing Smarty Plants). In general, I agree that ZSL should make smaller projects and general maintenance a higher priority.
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Ultimately, I think London and Bristol have similar strengths and weaknesses, hence my initial objection. Strengths: a rich and evident history, sensible collection planning, a commitment to displaying taxonomic diversity, and very successful conservation/research programs. Weaknesses: limited acreage, wasted space, small all-indoor exhibits, and tack. London also has its architectural white elephants; I hope you’re right and they can switch from a weakness to a strength.
To steal an Aaron Sorkin-ism, this is like comparing driving to the shops with going to the moon. The Casson and especially the Mappins are on a different scale to the challenges Bristol faced. When we consider like-for-like, London has renovated its historic structures just as well as Bristol. The Blackburn Pavilion is brilliant. The Terrace Restaurant is tasteful. The Giraffe House is pure magic. We’ll see whether the much larger Snowdon Aviary project is also successful, but I don’t think “Bristol did something well, so London can do something vast” is a fair argument.
Again, I think you’re being too hard on London. B.U.G.S., in my opinion, is the best zoo exhibit in the UK. It’s architecturally striking, innovative, genuinely educational, and exciting to boot (spider walk-through!). I wish the rest of the zoo were built in its image. Bug (sic) World is also very nice and the behind-the-scenes work is stellar, but parts are a bit tatty and I don’t understand why you think it’s a better display.
Bristol wins on gorillas, I agree, but aren’t we forgetting about lions? Whatever your gripes with Land of Lions, you’d be hard-pressed to argue Bristol’s enclosure comes close. London also has very pleasant exhibits for tigers, penguins, squirrel monkeys, pygmy hippos, etc. And the oft-heard argument that Bristol’s developments are more tasteful was debunked when they added a high-ropes course and crashed airplane.
London does need filling out, but they recently added gibbons and Bristol could have more exhibits, too (e.g. your suggestion of replacing Smarty Plants). In general, I agree that ZSL should make smaller projects and general maintenance a higher priority.
***
Ultimately, I think London and Bristol have similar strengths and weaknesses, hence my initial objection. Strengths: a rich and evident history, sensible collection planning, a commitment to displaying taxonomic diversity, and very successful conservation/research programs. Weaknesses: limited acreage, wasted space, small all-indoor exhibits, and tack. London also has its architectural white elephants; I hope you’re right and they can switch from a weakness to a strength.
Minor point - bringing a species back after it temporarily left during building work doesn't exactly count as an "addition" in my opinion
@Giant Panda I think we do agree about many things and that we can agree to differ about some others. As I said before, London certainly faces bigger problems than Bristol has had to face, but that does not mean that they ought not to consider similar solutions.
I was going to praise the Blackburn Pavilion in my previous post, but I decided not to make it even longer than it was: the renovation was bold and stylish and well done - unfortunately it is another of the areas of the zoo which is now starting to look unkempt and unloved.
I disagree with you about the lion exhibits too, Bristol's is far from perfect, but I think 'Land of the Lions' is an extravagant waste of space and money, which has only made the lions harder to see.
I think my I would summarise my point as 'London has to solve several vast problems. ZSL could learn from the way that Bristol has solved some of theirs.'
I was going to praise the Blackburn Pavilion in my previous post, but I decided not to make it even longer than it was: the renovation was bold and stylish and well done - unfortunately it is another of the areas of the zoo which is now starting to look unkempt and unloved.
I can only go part of the way with you here. B.U.G.S is an exciting building and it has some very good exhibits. I quite agree about the spider walk-through. But it has some poor ones too: the tall 'Toblerone' corner prisms just don't work and the smaller exhibits are quite hard to see, if the zoo is at all busy they are often ignored. And why are there always several exhibits out of use? I do hope the renewed marine section will be at least as good as the reef tanks in the Aquarium. I prefer Bug World because the I think the average exhibit size is larger so it's easier to see the creatures and I think some of the species are more interesting too.
I disagree with you about the lion exhibits too, Bristol's is far from perfect, but I think 'Land of the Lions' is an extravagant waste of space and money, which has only made the lions harder to see.
Neither do I.
I think my I would summarise my point as 'London has to solve several vast problems. ZSL could learn from the way that Bristol has solved some of theirs.'
In February I carried out a detailed survey of the aquarium (Bartlett Society may publish an abridged version), sadly I was too late to include the Tropical Hall. There were 25 displays, nearly all very good and mostly freshwater. The new aquarium at Whipsnade will have ten aquariums and some of those do not fit current biotopes. I much prefer freshwater displays but hope the high quality we have seen in the aquarium recently transfers to marine displays in 'BUGS' and that skilled aquarists have not lost their jobs. I think a few aquariums may appear elsewhere in the zoo; rainforest look out for example had no piranha in February and only the cavefish display in the old moonlight world/ nightlife exhibit.
Does anyone know if this has yet happened? She is only a middle aged animal and having been named and featured for adoption etc. this will be a harsh loss.
volvox
Well-Known Member
Yes, Ellish was euthanised last Friday evening, the 19th, as she took a turn for the worst.
The two new otters, hopefully a breeding pair, have arrived and are on show.
There is a new summer activity for children on the main lawn – "zoo it yourself" – they can dress up and try making little enclosures for different sorts of animals – there are dumpers to drive and bales of hay and plants and loads of other stuff – it looks great fun, educational, and it's free! (unlike some diversions we can name).
The rebuilt animal adventure area will open next Wednesday so that'll help cheer up that side of the zoo.
The squirrel monkey walkthrough is still a great attraction – three newish babies and lots of activity and undergrowth has been cleared so everything is easier to see.
Just trying to be positive!!
That is sad, although having seen her several times since she arrived, I always thought she looked a little odd. Very unscientific, I know, but perhaps her genes were too mixed up to have had a longer and more comfortable life.
I too think it is worth being optimistic, most zoo goers do not go seeking the same experience as most of us on here do and for a family day out, London is still offering a good day at a price comparable to other London attractions. I dislike the Land of the Lions intensely but last time, I ignored the whole street part at the back, entered through the front, facing the old part of the enclosure and actually thought it worked well (obviously it helped that the lions were on the platforms and not tucked in that corner); Tiger Territory is good, although the opportunities for seeing a tapir remain poor, Penguin Beach works well, the Reptile House remains good, Rainforest Look-out has been improved and in general, the Cotton Terraces achieve what they are supposed to (some grass for the zebra would be good, though). The Blackburn Pavillion; one of my favourite places was a little disappointing last time I was there, I am sure there were many more birds when it opened and the aquarium is a great loss. Gorilla Kingdom doesn't work but unless they start employing animal management techniques I suspect we would disapprove of they are stuck with a not so good remodelling of an area that never worked that well. But all in, still a number of good exhibits with others such as Meet the Monkeys, which, as you say, can be enjoyable. I'm not a fan of the 'Children's Zoo' concept but it is good that it will be up an running rather than derelict. Maybe with the aquarium gone some serious thought will now go into the Mappin Terraces. I think we need to accept that the peaks will only ever de decorative but the much levelled off lower sections surely can be made secure for some interesting species and if they manage that it would be a game changer that I fear a Colobus walkthrout cannot be unless there are also some very easy to see other interesting species in there!
I do not know whether zoochatters can handle the arrival of a rarity to Marwell anymore...
At the zoo now looking in on the newly reopened part of the childrens zoo. From an animals perspective disappointingly little has changed. The yellow mongoose and porcupine enclosures are as they were with the exception of meerkats replacing the rock hyrax which I'm disappointed to see haven't returned. The aardvark enclosure has been torn down remembered by by a bearded up window in the mock rock opposite the mongoose. In its approximate place is an astroturf lawn and a plastic tree.
robert everett
Well-Known Member
I’m sure it will be good for the kids even tho we lost some species
I've been pleasantly surprised on recent visits to London Zoo (May-July 2019) that the gorillas have been venturing into the outdoor area more in small groups when previously they were generally sitting around indoors looking bored.
In the Rainforest life the sloths were mobile (for sloths) and the fruit bats are active in the last 30mins before closing time, but I had the impression there are fewer tamarins around compared to a few years ago. Does anyone know if some died or were transferred elsewhere?
In the Rainforest life the sloths were mobile (for sloths) and the fruit bats are active in the last 30mins before closing time, but I had the impression there are fewer tamarins around compared to a few years ago. Does anyone know if some died or were transferred elsewhere?
robert everett
Well-Known Member
Does anyone think London will try and find a replacement giraffe since one of the girls passed away? Or phase out giraffes