Zoochat Cup Group H: Chester vs Prague

Chester vs Prague: Carnivores


  • Total voters
    45
  • Poll closed .
Then please stop.

The single over-arching rule that matters more than anything is that you vote purely based on the category under discussion, and your post above suggests you are not currently following that rule.

Oh right....

I didn't understand that because on one of the matches you did say 'keep in mind that this match matters a lot' or something like that.

That certainly doesn't change my opinion however. Before I was leaning towards Prague 3-0 but now I am staying on 2-1.

But you didn't state that Prague "...point blank is the best zoo in Europe..." without ever having been there. Voting on which is arguably a better zoo for carnivores is very different from what @amur leopard was stating.

Nope I said that.

....and contradicts his initial claims that

It doesn't actually because I only found out how much this match mattered well after the match begun...
 
I have supplied every single photograph in this thread
As well as a truly unnecessary number of ellipses, bland arguments, and unfounded assertions, which for the last several matches have made the cup threads quite a bit of a chore for all parties involved. Your unwillingness to carry out an argument (and instead make confusing and sometimes incorrect posts with little context) is quite unlikely to win any votes in favor of the zoo you are advocating for.
 
Erm, yes, I know. That's what was so ridiculous...

Oh right I see what you meant.

Let me put it this way: most zoochatters, when they are children, start off with a preconceived idea of what is the best zoo in the world without actually having been there. There is an element of objectivity to everything: most people on this site would probably say San Diego is the best zoo in the world while many of us, in fact probably even most of us, haven't been there. Do you see what I mean?
 
OK I agree that the polar bear enclosure is poor but it is being redone into a massive exhibit, so....

It has been fundamentally established that future plans are not eligible for consideration. Judging from the plans however, the new exhibit will be a massive improvement, but not massive in and of itself...

So these (I'm guessing) are the 'quite poor' enclosures. I would not even say that it approaches poor, although my benchmark may well be lower than yours @lintworm.
The top exhibit for jaguarundis is well-planted, with lots of space and many places to hide. It is a good exhibit. The entrance to the oncilla exhibit viewing tunnel is shown in the second photo. I couldn't find a picture showing the actual exhibit, but from the small view we have of it, I imagine it is similar-ish to the jaguarundi exhibit and same with the tayras in the third photo. Then, the leopard cats. While the exhibit may look slightly shabby, the enclosure itself is suitable and good. There is plenty of height to the enclosure, allowing the cats to climb as they would in the wild. Therefore, the bad exhibits aren't actually bad at all really...

The jaguarundi and oncilla exhibits are both thoroughly average. They could be larger, but are well-furnished etc. I don't think they are bad, but they are not winning any prizes either. The Palawan leopard cat exhibit is all indoors, but is probably about as big as other small cat exhibits. It is fundamentally unimpressive.

This is a small section of the coati exhibit, which is lushly planted, with lots of natural climbing opportunities as well as viewing opportunities for visitors. This makes it a very good exhibit for a species often overlooked in zoos.

I agree, this is a good exhibit.

The second photo shows the extent of the exhibit properly, while the first shows a small section. It is a spacious and well-proportioned exhibit with a slide, clear water and a long range of viewing windows. A good exhibit on the whole.

This exhibit is certainly above average for Europe, but sadly that says more about Europe than it does about Prague.

This immense exhibit for bush dogs is outstanding compared to the exhibits this species is normally housed in. Very spacious and impressive.

The size is nice, otherwise there is not a huge amount to say.

Meanwhile, the otter exhibit is also very large and well-suited to the species. It also has large viewing windows.

I agree again, it's a good exhibit.

And lastly, probably the best and most striking red panda exhibit I have ever seen, it reflects the red panda's mountainous home, while being based around Nepalese trees and the dense foliage reflets the thick tops of the trees of the Nepalese mountain forests in which they live. the photo only shows part of the enclosure. The exhibit is also built on a natural slant, which also allows visitors to view from above and below.

If this is the case you need to see far more red panda exhibits. This is a perfectly good, but still fundamentally unremarkable enclosure.


I have not.

However, I do plan to visit in a few years' time after the San Diego and Monterey trip and Berlin, Leipzig, Chester and a few other places. I have however visited Chester before, and after looking through the whole Prague gallery I can assure you that I do know what the enclosures look like.

From your comments I am not at all sure that you do understand the enclosures, since you are routinely overestimating their size

OK Prague is one of the only zoos in the world with brown hyenas, and they don't house them in meagre accommodation either. This immense exhibit is basically devoted to the species. They have isolation areas, connecting areas and containment areas. It is truly immense.

It is NOT truly immense. It is a normal hyaena exhibit, with exciting inhabitants.

This massive cheetah exhibit is very suitable for the species. Probably one of the best enclosures for the species in the world apart from Beauval's.

It would never occur to me to describe this exhibit as one of the best in the world. But it is large, and the elevation is hopefully enjoyed by visitors and cats.

This is another large enclosure and lots of places to hide (for Asiatic lions) I know you can't see the enclosure very well, but it is good in other photos.

It's an exhibit with a large moat. It is not a large exhibit.

An average enclosure for Javan leopards. Could do with a little more space but enough places to hide.

This is exactly the same size as the neighbouring jaguarundi exhibit. It is woefully undersized for a big cat, and along with Berlin TP's offering allows Pairi Daiza to say they have the best Javan leopard exhibit on the continent.

This is the Malayan tiger exhibit and I genuinely think it is a good enclosure. It has cover, it has a massive pool for these water-loving cats and it is far enough away to give the cats some privacy.

Like the lion exhibit, this has a large moat, and not all that much land.

This is a massive exhibit for maned wolves. Very nice exhibit overall, representing the Pampas well.

I agree it is a good exhibit. I think it's probably fair to say it represents Czech woodland more than it does the Pantanal.

The Siberian tiger exhibit is also very nice, simulating the Russian taiga. Although you can't really see the exhibit, it is large and spacious.

To be honest, I wouldn't like to comment too definitively on the size of this exhibit, since I skipped it on my most recent trip (I've therefore only seen it twice in the flesh). But again, I think words like average are far more suitable than anything more superlative.

3 subspecies of tiger, 2 of leopard, brown hyenas... what more can you ask for?

This is the question isn't it? Against Chester, the answer is great exhibitry. I like Prague more than I like Chester, and on several categories it would have a chance to really wipe the floor here, but carnivores is its Achilles heel. The Cat House would be 'fine' in most zoos in Europe, but not Prague, and certainly not Chester. It's a similar picture across the collection; so little of what Prague offers is exceptional, whereas Chester has a few thoroughly outstanding enclosures and an average that is far higher than Prague's. I don't really have an issue with people preferring Prague's collection over Chester's style, it's a personal choice and many of Prague's weaknesses are not disqualifying. However, they shouldn't do so based on your analysis. It's quite hard sometimes to have reasonable communication online; I genuinely don't want to attack you. But I think you are wrong about these exhibits and I think you are equally wrong to think you could form these opinions based just on photos from the gallery. When I haven't visited a zoo I will always rely primarily on the testimony of those who have, especially those I trust. No doubt some will think my personal analysis is too harsh, just as some will find it too kind, but what they won't dispute is that I have spent several minutes at each exhibit over several visits, and that typically I will have walked the entire accessible perimeter and enjoyed all possible vantage points.
 
Last edited:
Perhaps someone with a working knowledge of Chester could provide exhibit photos, so that those of us who haven't visited either can make visual comparisons? Multiple people have posted that Prague's enclosures don't measure up to Chester's, but it would be nice to actually see it.
 
OK here are a few:

chester fossa.jpg

(Fossa)

chester indoor lion.jpg

(Asiatic lion indoor viewing)

chester jaguar.jpg

(Jaguar)

chester lion.jpg

(Asiatic lion)

chester sumatran tiger.jpg

(Sumatran tiger)

chester sun bear.jpg

(Sun bear)

chster otter.jpg

(Giant otter)
 

Attachments

  • chester fossa.jpg
    chester fossa.jpg
    187.2 KB · Views: 44
  • chester indoor lion.jpg
    chester indoor lion.jpg
    156.7 KB · Views: 48
  • chester jaguar.jpg
    chester jaguar.jpg
    144.9 KB · Views: 47
  • chester lion.jpg
    chester lion.jpg
    212.7 KB · Views: 47
  • chester sumatran tiger.jpg
    chester sumatran tiger.jpg
    184.4 KB · Views: 48
  • chester sun bear.jpg
    chester sun bear.jpg
    181 KB · Views: 48
  • chster otter.jpg
    chster otter.jpg
    158.7 KB · Views: 48
The giant otter, sun bear and spectacled bear plus Jaguar House at Chester are very good, probably fossa too but I'm not sure anything else is so great that it gets Chester a win or even a point - Bush dogs, tigers acceptable, old lion enclosure too, haven't seen new one. African wild dogs OK.
Most of these are not enough to beat Prague's massively better collection but that's my opinion!
 
Seriously, this is not even a contest on species, it is an absolute hammering! Chester is a great all round zoo, the best in the UK, but for carnivores ( which is what we are focusing on) is it really better than Prague? I would suggest this should not be about loyalty or hype(for those that are voting based on Chester's reputation) on carnivores Prague should win by a landslide. I love Chester but on Carnivores it loses!
Notei I am English and have been to Chester 15-20 times, it is a great zoo, just don't believe it should be anywhere near winning this contest!
 
Last edited:
The fossa, giant otter, and jaguar habitats look absolutely amazing; however, besides those I'm having trouble seeing a lot of difference between Chester and Prague's enclosures. I can't find any photo showing the entirety of Prague's maligned polar bear or cat enclosures, so it's hard to know how much to factor that in. Maybe somebody who has seen Prague can elaborate on specifically how Chester comes out ahead enough to beat a nearly 2-1 species gap in favor of Prague?
 
The fossa, giant otter, and jaguar habitats look absolutely amazing; however, besides those I'm having trouble seeing a lot of difference between Chester and Prague's enclosures. I can't find any photo showing the entirety of Prague's maligned polar bear or cat enclosures, so it's hard to know how much to factor that in. Maybe somebody who has seen Prague can elaborate on specifically how Chester comes out ahead enough to beat a nearly 2-1 species gap in favor of Prague?
Quite simply, as someone who has been to Chester multiple times, it should not be beating Prague on carnivores!
 
But you are saying this as someone who hasn't been to Prague!
As I said before, I think there are probably better zoos in the UK than Chester for carnivores, its collection doesn't come close to Pragues and though a few enclosures are better, it isn't enough to save it from a hammering! Easy win for Prague!
I think you will find not everyone voting for Chester has been there more than once, if at all?!
 
Quite simply, as someone who has been to Chester multiple times, it should not be beating Prague on carnivores!

And I'm making my 2-1 Chester vote as someone who a) has been to both collections, and within the last 6 weeks at that b) openly acknowledges Prague is the best zoo he has been to, and one of only 2-3 to beat Chester in my affections :p

The fossa, giant otter, and jaguar habitats look absolutely amazing; however, besides those I'm having trouble seeing a lot of difference between Chester and Prague's enclosures. I can't find any photo showing the entirety of Prague's maligned polar bear or cat enclosures, so it's hard to know how much to factor that in. Maybe somebody who has seen Prague can elaborate on specifically how Chester comes out ahead enough to beat a nearly 2-1 species gap in favor of Prague?

Working on such a post now - for now it's worth noting the previously-posted image of the polar bear exhibit does show it all.
 
First things first....

Which ones are offshow from Chester? This could be very significant...

Grandidiers Vontsira
Narrow striped Boky
Javan Mongoose
Scottish Wildcat

Although all four of these species are indeed offshow, I would be inclined to argue that the latter two at least are still very much relevant in terms of the discussion at hand.

Firstly, let us take the Small Indian Mongoose; these are indeed offshow at the present time, as they are still undergoing quarantine, but their future exhibit *is* onshow and in fact photographs depicting it have already been posted within this thread, as the indoor exhibit for the Asiatic Lions will also serve as the enclosure for the mongooses.

full


Secondly, the Scottish Wildcats should definitely be taken into consideration, given the fact that - as previously mentioned upthread - they are offshow precisely because of the measures which have been put in place to ensure that they are exposed to as little human interaction as possible and hence that the animals bred in the facility are suitable for reintroduction into the wild. This therefore has a strong bearing on the matter of the conservation work undertaken by Chester. Moreover, although the breeding facilities are offshow, their location *is* visible from Flag Lane (the public bridleway which bisects the zoo) if one knows where to look - from what little can be seen, and the size of the enclosure which can be deduced, they appear to be spacious and thickly vegetated.
 
As I said before, I think there are probably better zoos in the UK than Chester for carnivores, its collection doesn't come close to Pragues and though a few enclosures are better, it isn't enough to save it from a hammering! Easy win for Prague!
I think you will find not everyone voting for Chester has been there more than once, if at all?!

I think part of the art of this game is accepting that others don’t necessarily place the same emphasis on the same factors as oneself does, and that sometimes that means a result doesn't go the way you think it should. You can disagree with a majority verdict - I think I do more often than not! - but I'm not sure what is gained by repeatedly objecting to people not giving certain factors the same weight you do.
 
Back
Top