Can the Vaquita porpoise be saved ?

carlos55 said:
Alerta... quedan 10 ejemplares de vaquita marina
Very sad news, the latest estimate is that there are only 10 vaquitas left, of which 3 are juveniles.
Click to expand...
Why and how come the Mexican authorities let it sink so low. If the vaquita goes extinct and it seems more likely now then ever we have their inaction and the criminally negligent fisheries industry to blame. What will we tell our grandchildren, ay?
 
The current Mexican government has done very little to defend the Vaquita. The environment is simply not. A priority for the current administration. The Sea Shepard inicident where a local fisherman was killed did not help. There may be a couple of vaquitas not registered,maybe 3 or 4. More international pressure on the current Mexican government is still needed.
Here is a article in English that gives information on the situation.
Groups urge pressure on Mexico to save tiny vaquita porpoise
 
carlos55 said:
The current Mexican government has done very little to defend the Vaquita. The environment is simply not. A priority for the current administration. The Sea Shepard inicident where a local fisherman was killed did not help. There may be a couple of vaquitas not registered,maybe 3 or 4. More international pressure on the current Mexican government is still needed.
Here is a article in English that gives information on the situation.
Groups urge pressure on Mexico to save tiny vaquita porpoise
Click to expand...

I think the sea shepherd incident was really a nail in the coffin for the species and if we are honest this group will have to take at least some of the moral responsibility for the extinction of the species.
 
carlos55 said:
I agree OC, the Sea Shepherd incident with the death of the local fisherman , turned a strong and vocal part of the local population of San Felipe against vaquita conservation and was used by opportunistic politicians to criticize the project.
Click to expand...

Yes I totally agree but I really don't think that Sea Shepherd are going to take any responsibility for this.
 
carlos55 said:
I agree OC, the Sea Shepherd incident with the death of the local fisherman , turned a strong and vocal part of the local population of San Felipe against vaquita conservation and was used by opportunistic politicians to criticize the project.
Click to expand...
Considering how many vaquitas have been illegally and wilfully killed by local fishermen and criminal networks in Mexico in the pursuit of dollars and personal gain, I just remain somewhat indignant at a travesty of justice and unashamed for what we all know to be a local poaching and killing spree of this iconic and critically endangered dolphin species. No one has been held accountable till date, not in the current Socialist government's term nor any Mexican government gone before it. To put the failure of any conservation efforts only squarely at the door of Sea Shepherd (for all personal misgivings I hold and have towards some of their antics and actions) organisation is shutting our eyes to the reality of this Vaquita Theatre of Pain by local design.

Now Mexico, of course, is not the only region where fisheries industries are responsible for fi(ni)shing off local fish and other marine stocks. The North Sea and Eastern Atlantic being a prime hunting ground for European fisheries (as is the Nova Scotia Western Atlantic for Arctic cod and Western Africa for anchovies and a host of other species for the European markets. Not to mention factory fishing by Russian and PR China fleets. But there is no taking away how this may be viewed in decades to come when people will remember how, where and when.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Considering how many vaquitas have been illegally and wilfully killed by local fishermen and criminal networks in Mexico in the pursuit of dollars and personal gain, I just remain somewhat indignant at a travesty of justice and unashamed for what we all know to be a local poaching and killing spree of this iconic and critically endangered dolphin species. No one has been held accountable till date, not in the current Socialist government's term nor any Mexican government gone before it. To put the failure of any conservation efforts only squarely at the door of Sea Shepherd (for all personal misgivings I hold and have towards some of their antics and actions) organisation is shutting our eyes to the reality of this Vaquita Theatre of Pain by local design.

Now Mexico, of course, is not the only region where fisheries industries are responsible for fi(ni)shing off local fish and other marine stocks. The North Sea and Eastern Atlantic being a prime hunting ground for European fisheries (as is the Nova Scotia Western Atlantic for Arctic cod and Western Africa for anchovies and a host of other species for the European markets. Not to mention factory fishing by Russian and PR China fleets. But there is no taking away how this may be viewed in decades to come when people will remember how, where and when.
Click to expand...

Ok, but I think the broader issues of security bear mentioning when it comes to this matter.

A significant problem over recent decades is that the North-Western states of Mexico on the Pacific coast have become battlegrounds / hotbeds of insurgency in everything but name with the drug-war and battles between drug cartels (the most powerful of which originated in this region).

Of course along with this violence and instability comes endemic levels of corruption which permeate the political establishment and turn areas of whole states of the country into narco-economies.

I'm not absolving the Mexican government of their inaction and indifference towards the plight of the vaquita but like many conflict zones of the world the conservation of biodiversity takes a back seat during times of national emergencies and I believe that to some extent this may have happened with this species.

Sea shepherd on the other hand have come into this very complex situation (and yes this wouldn't have happened had there been actual boots on the ground) and screwed things up and made things 100 times worse for the species basically at the last hour with their hippy "tactics" and so in my opinion they need to take responsibility for having played a part in this.
 
Last edited:
carlos55 said:
A Mexican expert states that recovery of the vaquita is most likely to fail because it’s habitat is filled with illegal nets
Poco se puede hacer por la vaquita marina; el Alto Golfo de California, lleno de redes ilegales: experto
Click to expand...
To me, that sounds like an excuse to sit down and do nothing. Really, I am not being picky for a fight, but to throw the towel like it is no use when the fat lady has not sung is just way off for any conservation minded individual or the serious scientist. Are people to damn scarred to take on the criminal network and high crime achievers (I know how things are going and done in Mexico with drug wars and all, but this is just insane).
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
To me, that sounds like an excuse to sit down and do nothing. Really, I am not being picky for a fight, but to throw the towel like it is no use when the fat lady has not sung is just way off for any conservation minded individual or the serious scientist. Are people to damn scarred to take on the criminal network and high crime achievers (I know how things are going and done in Mexico with drug wars and all, but this is just insane).
Click to expand...

I'm not saying the towel should be thrown in, not at all, I think the fight to save a species should continue to the bitter end but you simply have to bear in mind that in this part of the world / Latin America being a conservationist and being militant about conservation can be a death sentence.

For example in Mexico in 2020 there were three prominent conservationists / environmentalists who were assassinated by shooting and bludgeoning and then drowing to death respectively (a much lower amount than conservationists killed in Brazil and Colombia but still comparatively high by the standards of other countries).

Being a conservationist anywhere in the world often entails coming up against established and vested power structures and challenging / opposing these but the difference is that in a country like Mexico these political and economic structures usually have very close ties to very dangerous organized crime networks.

In Mexico if you do not play the game carefully and get in the way of profit by opposing political decisions, organized wildlife crime or standing in the way of mining or a landgrab for the cultivation of plants for narcotics like opium you will likely end dead and very possibly dying an excruciating death to boot (same as Colombia, Brazil and much of Central America).
 
Last edited:
Kifaru Bwana said:
To me, that sounds like an excuse to sit down and do nothing. Really, I am not being picky for a fight, but to throw the towel like it is no use when the fat lady has not sung is just way off for any conservation minded individual or the serious scientist. Are people to damn scarred to take on the criminal network and high crime achievers (I know how things are going and done in Mexico with drug wars and all, but this is just insane).
Click to expand...

Also lets not forget that one of the principal causes of the decline of the vaquita is these animals being caught in gill nets due to the Chinese demand for the totoaba fish and its gall bladder which sells for $20,000 on the black market in the far East.

The demand for the fish is met by the Sinaloa cartel who basically have a narco-economy within this region of the country and who in addition to drugs traffick totoaba fish to Chinese organized crime Triad gangs in Asia.

There were apparently several back room meetings going on between Mexican officials and the drug cartels to try to implement a ban on the use of gillnets but it just didn't work out (unsuprising really when the government is at war with them).

As with nearly every situation in conservation the problem with conserving the vaquita is one rooted in socio-economics and the fact that the fishing communities were so dirt poor that fishing with gillnets for totoaba to supply the trade to the Chinese was far more lucrative thanks to the presence of the cartels.

The Mexican government should have tackled the issue at the grassroots community level by improving economic opportunities and local infastructure but how can you do something as intricate and costly (in terms of money and time) as that in the middle of an insurgency / war that has already cost the lives of 60,000 people in the country ?

How can you disincentivize this kind of activity when there is no existing alternative livelihood or infastructure and when there are drug cartels both armed to the teeth and offering much better money / economic incentives to these poverty stricken communities?

Yes, of course, the fishing communities and the Mexican government must take a huge share of the blame for the probable extinction of this species, that is obvious and beyond any doubt or argument so I'm not going to suggest that they should be absolved.

However, the blame must also be equally shared by the idiotic hippy activists of "sea shepherd", the Sinaloa drug cartel, the Chinese consumers of totoaba and the Americans too (for consuming the cocaine that the cartels traffick and for NAFTA which f***** up the economic situation for these rural communities across the North of the country).
 
Last edited:
Estimado, @OC and @carlos55, I feel and get what you are both thinking and feeling. I am willfully aware of the security situation and the threats conservationists (and this is actually a global phenomenon and not just Latino Americas per se) are under from adverse forces or those opposed to environmental conservation.

Having said that: I was merely being observant of why a conservationist would offer a quote "well too many nets around for them to survive" was a little bit thin on the ground. I am not sure how much of that is based on just the title quote that sticks, but sometimes newspaper features can be a bit diffuse on that (call it bias, sensationalism .... annoying this may be to us readers).

We - and I do count myself also among conservationists, allthough unfortunately not active in the profession at this time - as conservation minded individuals can probably think of a good few strategies to even try on this iconic species and bring back the vaquita back from the brink - as the situation is 2 past midnight admittedly ....), even if that means a last ditch effort captive-breeding and a vaquita and marine reserve away from the San Felipe area.

I really do hope that added and continued pressure from outside interests, respected conservation organisations (not Sea Shepherd, but the likes of IUCN and affiliated scientific groups) and US and other administrations' involvement on the issues on/with the Mexican Government will swing them into action mode to save the vaquita and also engage the local people in a responsible manner (I am yet convinced most people want to do good, just there are a few bad apples about spoiling the scene and atmosphere).
 
Last edited:
Kifaru Bwana said:
Estimado, @OC and @carlos55, I feel and get what you are both thinking and feeling. I am willfully aware of the security situation and the threats conservationists (and this is actually a global phenomenon and not just Latino Americas per se) are under from adverse forces or those opposed to environmental conservation.

Having said that: I was merely being observant of why a conservationist would offer a quote "well too many nets around for them to survive" was a little bit thin on the ground. I am not sure how much of that is based on just the title quote that sticks, but sometimes newspaper features can be a bit diffuse on that (call it bias, sensationalism .... annoying this may be to us readers).

We - and I do count myself also among conservationists, allthough unfortunately not active in the profession at this time - as conservation minded individuals can probably think of a good few strategies to even try on this iconic species and bring back the vaquita back from the brink - as the situation is 2 past midnight admittedly ....), even if that means last effort captive-breeding and a vaquita and marine reserve away from the San Felipe area.

I really do hope that added and continued pressure from outside interests, respected conservation organisations (not Sea Shepherd, but the likes of IUCN and affiliated scientific groups) and US and other administrations' involvement on the issues on/with the Mexican Government will swing them into action mode to save the vaquita and also engage the local people in a responsible manner (I am yet convinced most people want to do good, just there are a few bad apples about spoiling the scene and atmosphere).
Click to expand...

Don't worry @Kifaru Bwana, I'm not offended or anything like that and I know that you did not mean anything offhand with that remark.

This is an interesting topic but I'll have to reply to it a bit later today but will post a comment a little later.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Estimado, @OC and @carlos55, I feel and get what you are both thinking and feeling. I am willfully aware of the security situation and the threats conservationists (and this is actually a global phenomenon and not just Latino Americas per se) are under from adverse forces or those opposed to environmental conservation.

Having said that: I was merely being observant of why a conservationist would offer a quote "well too many nets around for them to survive" was a little bit thin on the ground. I am not sure how much of that is based on just the title quote that sticks, but sometimes newspaper features can be a bit diffuse on that (call it bias, sensationalism .... annoying this may be to us readers).

We - and I do count myself also among conservationists, allthough unfortunately not active in the profession at this time - as conservation minded individuals can probably think of a good few strategies to even try on this iconic species and bring back the vaquita back from the brink - as the situation is 2 past midnight admittedly ....), even if that means a last ditch effort captive-breeding and a vaquita and marine reserve away from the San Felipe area.

I really do hope that added and continued pressure from outside interests, respected conservation organisations (not Sea Shepherd, but the likes of IUCN and affiliated scientific groups) and US and other administrations' involvement on the issues on/with the Mexican Government will swing them into action mode to save the vaquita and also engage the local people in a responsible manner (I am yet convinced most people want to do good, just there are a few bad apples about spoiling the scene and atmosphere).
Click to expand...

I didn't really get a sense of fatalism from the article and the way it was written by Angelica but rather an attitude of cynicism and frustration expressed by the writer and the CBD scientist interviewed Alejandro Olivera.

The cynicism seems to be directed at the failed efforts of the Mexican government to address the driver of the decline of the species and is warranted in my opinion because up to the present none of the strategies mentioned have met with any success due to difficulty of implementation, logistics and oversight.

I would like to think that this will galvanise action too and again I would never suggest to "throw in the towel" but I do think that the odds against this species are now very high and it will require a huge effort and coming at such a very difficult and troubled time so it would sadly not suprise me if this is ultimately unsuccessful.

The vaquita as far as I can see is tragically a victim of geopolitics: China's rising geopolitical power being felt in the region manifesting as Chinese consumption of endangered species or impact on these and the United States and its own geopolitical power with its long hold over Mexico, the failed state of the Mexican government and political and economic destablization (and consumption of cocaine) resulting in poverty, non existent social infastructure and cartel "narconomics".
 
Last edited:
Dassie rat said:
There was an episode about the vaquita on 'Crossing Continents' today (Crossing Continents - Saving the Vaquita - BBC Sounds). Some people think the vaquita is mythical and that conservationists are helping oil prospectors.
Click to expand...

I hadn't heard about the oil prospector / conservation conspiracy theory but I do think that it speaks volumes about the fears and paranoia that many communities have in Mexico and other areas of Latin America of neocolonialism and economic exploitation.

It really isn't that unusual or uncommon that there are often suspicions about the motives of conservationists (or other disciplines like archeologists, geologists, paleontologists, botanists etc) felt by rural and particularly indigenous communities.

These fears are not helped by either the recent history where multi-national corporations have arrived in areas and screwed things up for people or the fact that some conservationists either do not bother to engage with local communities or don't do so for long enough to build up trust.

For example, I remember speaking to a conservationist who worked in Bolivia who was kidnapped and held for several hours at gun point by an indigenous community who believed him and his colleagues to be prospecting for a mining company.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top