ZSL Whipsnade Zoo Whipsnade's Elephants 2022

Jambo said:
It can't be Donna as the video was shot in 2008, and the calf looks bigger than Leelee so it has to be Euan. The females are Kaylee and Lucha.

And re. Beth, that would be Elizabeth. Beth is short for Elizabeth, so it's likely a nickname used by keepers instead of using Elizabeth which is a rather lengthy name and can be a mouthful. I assume her other name will be something else, not Beth (that is if she has one).
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@Jambo Beth is a fairly obscure name for Elizabeth. I would have thought the Keepers call her Liz or Lizzie. I have heard the name Elizabeth shortened to Beth. In my opinion if the Whipsnade Keepers wanted a short name,they would call her Liz. I don’t know your opinion but I think it would be easier to say Liz.
 
dillotest0 said:
Perhaps this was also part the reason the direct contact + elephant walks were ceased altogether?
Or was this before that
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The incident @The Hedgehog refers to Azizah crushing a keepers arm after knocking him against a tree in 2009. Protected contact was brought in a while after this incident and remains in place to this date.
The Hedgehog said:
@Jambo Beth is a fairly obscure name for Elizabeth. I would have thought the Keepers call her Liz or Lizzie. I have heard the name Elizabeth shortened to Beth. In my opinion if the Whipsnade Keepers wanted a short name,they would call her Liz. I don’t know your opinion but I think it would be easier to say Liz.
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Beth is the last four letters of Elizabeth. It’s a predictable nickname and for that reason, she would have an alternate house name that the public wouldn’t readily guess/use.
 
dillotest0 said:
Perhaps this was also part the reason the direct contact + elephant walks were ceased altogether?
Or was this before that
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@dillotest0 the direct contact was stopped a few years prior to Mya’s departure. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mya’s behaviour instigated the transition to protected contact. I think Mya should have left as soon as Whipsnade discovered her personally. Since Mya’s departure the heard have been more settled and cohesive. I wouldn’t blame the Elephants for being weary of Mya. If I was a Keeper at Whipsnade, I would have been terrified. An,aggressive,domineering and antisocial Elephant is not good.
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Jambo I hope Whipsnade can nurture a Family Herd. Jambo do you know how Whipsnade can avoid a split herd,as they had while Mya lived there. This situation was far from ideal. The best thing that happened to Whipsnade’s Elephant herd was the departure of Mya. Mya caused nothing but problems not only for the herd but for the Keepers. She had to live separate in a herd with Karishma and Elizabeth. Secondly due to her aggressive and domineering personality she broke the heard and their bond. The reason the heard was split initially was because Mya loathed Kaylee. Mya wasn’t just aggressive towards the Elephants but too keepers. Mya was the Elephant that killed a Keeper at London Zoo. Don’t quote me,but I believe at Whipsnade Mya broke a Keepers arm. The result was that Mya didn’t walk with the keepers through the Zoo. Finally the keepers didn’t deem it safe to have direct contact with Mya.
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They shouldn't have to split the herd; that is, unless the herd gets too big, which will, of course happen eventually if breeding is successful and they don't experience the misfortune they've experienced in the past.

Mya was a dominant female in Whipsnade's herd, and often competed with Kaylee for dominance. But, she always had the support of her best friend, Azizah, who was the matriarch. Following Azizah's death though, Mya began to be 'bullied' pretty much by Kaylee, Lucha, Donna ect. Thus was the reason for her move.

Also, I don't think Mya was responsible for the keeper's death. I believe it was Gita but I may be wrong.
 
The next time someone is at Whipsnade,can they please find out Elizabeth’s house name for me. This is if she indeed has one.
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Jambo Beth is a fairly obscure name for Elizabeth. I would have thought the Keepers call her Liz or Lizzie. I have heard the name Elizabeth shortened to Beth. In my opinion if the Whipsnade Keepers wanted a short name,they would call her Liz. I don’t know your opinion but I think it would be easier to say Liz.
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Beth is the last four letters of Elizabeth, so it's a simple nicknameo_O

The Hedgehog said:
@dillotest0 the direct contact was stopped a few years prior to Mya’s departure. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mya’s behaviour instigated the transition to protected contact. I think Mya should have left as soon as Whipsnade discovered her personally. Since Mya’s departure the heard have been more settled and cohesive. I wouldn’t blame the Elephants for being weary of Mya. If I was a Keeper at Whipsnade, I would have been terrified. An,aggressive,domineering and antisocial Elephant is not good.
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Most english zoos (and even worldwide) moved away from free contact around that time. Just too much of a risk for keepers safety; keep in mind, these animals are very large animals.

I don't think they moved to protected contact because of Mya. She always had the support of Azizah as i've said, so she wasn't an issue beforehand. Of course a dominant female's going to challenge another female. It's nature. Mya wasn't an overtly aggressive female, so I don't know where you got that from.

Those statements you make are out of context. Mya is not a monster.
 
Jambo said:
They shouldn't have to split the herd; that is, unless the herd gets too big, which will, of course happen eventually if breeding is successful and they don't experience the misfortune they've experienced in the past.

Mya was a dominant female in Whipsnade's herd, and often competed with Kaylee for dominance. But, she always had the support of her best friend, Azizah, who was the matriarch. Following Azizah's death though, Mya began to be 'bullied' pretty much by Kaylee, Lucha, Donna ect. Thus was the reason for her move.

Also, I don't think Mya was responsible for the keeper's death. I believe it was Gita but I may be wrong.
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@Jambo I thought Kaylee was and always has been the matriarch. Too my knowledge it was Mya doing the bullying. I thought Mya was segregated from Donna,Kaylee and Lucha for their own protection.
Regarding the Keeper death at London Zoo there is some confusion. Some articles state that Mya was the killer and others state that it was Mya. Apparently the Elephant that was responsible for the attack purposely did so. From Mya’s behaviour at Whipsnade I would say she did the attack. I think Mya should have been euthanised. I know other Elephants have been euthanised due to aggression. If Whipsnade didn’t split the herd when they did,I think an Elephant would have been killed by Mya.
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Jambo I thought Kaylee was and always has been the matriarch. Too my knowledge it was Mya doing the bullying. I thought Mya was segregated from Donna,Kaylee and Lucha for their own protection.
Regarding the Keeper death at London Zoo there is some confusion. Some articles state that Mya was the killer and others state that it was Mya. Apparently the Elephant that was responsible for the attack purposely did so. From Mya’s behaviour at Whipsnade I would say she did the attack. I think Mya should have been euthanised. I know other Elephants have been euthanised due to aggression. If Whipsnade didn’t split the herd when they did,I think an Elephant would have been killed by Mya.
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Their was conflict between the two, with both wanting to be the matriarch and neither accepting the other. Mya was a very dominant cow.

Most sources state Mya killed the keeper. However, that alone is not reason to euthanise her when protected contact is an option; nor is her inability to integrate into a herd.

Elephants are complex animals and they’re dealing with the fall out being thrown together with unfamiliar animals and expected to live cohesively (an unfair expectation). Zoos have an ethical obligation to meet the welfare needs of all elephants in their care; while working towards mirroring the natural social order (matrilineal herds) to ensure best practices are followed.
 
Panthera1981 said:
What most viewers overlook is the effect her departure has on Azizah as she’s loaded onto the truck. Very much a ‘blink and you’ll miss it’ moment. I never looked at Azizah the same way again after that.
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What was Azizah's reaction to the departure that viewers would have missed?

I remember at the time that the 'public' explanation for Thi's departure was extreme nervousness but of course that may only have emphasised her selection as the one chosen to leave.
 
@Pertinax why did one Elephant have to leave London Zoo? It couldn’t have been for financial reasons,if it was all 4 would have left.Incidentally Thai’s move was the best scenario. Without Thai’s move to Chester we wouldn’t have Sundara (Thai’s Granddaughter),Indali (Thai’s Great-granddaughter),Anjan (Thai’s Son) and Riva (Thai’s Granddaughter). Thai also has an elder Son called Assam who departed Chester in 2004.
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Pertinax why did one Elephant have to leave London Zoo? It couldn’t have been for financial reasons,if it was all 4 would have left.
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Just think about it....getting rid of one Elephant reduces feeding(and veterinary and labour) cost. To a cash-strapped zoo every saving like that would be important without removing elephants altogether- which did come later of course.
 
Pertinax said:
What was Azizah's reaction to the departure that viewers would have missed?

I remember at the time that the 'public' explanation for Thi's departure was extreme nervousness but of course that may only have emphasised her selection as the one chosen to leave.
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Azizah was known to sway from side-to-side when stressed, as a result of trauma after being taken from her mother when young. This action became more aggressive (and upsetting to the uninformed visitor) the more she became stressed. A common trigger at Whipsnade was when she became separated from the rest of the herd, particularly her calves. You see it briefly during the Thi sequence.

On a separate note, I’ve recently read some truly disturbing and disgusting comments and aspersions regarding Mya and her history made by certain individuals on this forum. Maybe engage your brain before you start writing a comment. You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Pertinax why did one Elephant have to leave London Zoo? It couldn’t have been for financial reasons,if it was all 4 would have left.
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Jambo said:
Yes, it could've been financial reasons; elephants are expensive to keep, so keeping three rather than four is a major difference.
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@Panthera1981 mentioned this on the previous page. It was part of the zoo’s cost cutting measures.

In addition to the reasons listed by @Pertinax, it freed up space in the Casson Pavilion. When the elephants arrived, the youngest were juveniles. As they matured, they needed more space and expanding the exhibit wasn’t an option.
 
@Panthera1981 why are you sticking up for Mya. Mya was aggressive,domineering and unpredictable. The Whipsnade herd was divided because of her. I bet the Elephants are thriving now their one unit.
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Panthera1981 why are you sticking up for Mya. Mya was aggressive,domineering and unpredictable. The Whipsnade herd was divided because of her. I bet the Elephants are thriving now their one unit.
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He’s defending her because you’re making uninformed and unfair assumptions and being unnecessarily negative. If you don’t have anything constructive to contribute, it’s probably best if you leave the discussion there.

Only those who work with Mya know her best and are qualified to say what’s right or wrong with regards to how she should be managed. It’s disrespectful to all involved to make statements to the effect that she should be euthanised.
 
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