Aardwolf
Well-Known Member
From a US perspective, I’ve felt that if blue jays and northern cardinals were exotic, they’d be Crown Jewels of bird houses and aviaries
Zoo/Aquarium Hot Takes
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Well no, but more often than not a good portion of the animal collection is tropical.
Pleistocene891
Well-Known Member
Terror Birds were extinct by the early pleistocene. The only known North American terror bird, Titanis, went extinct roughly 1.9 million years ago, probably due to climate change. Titanis did not coexist with many of the animals you just listed.Well, a white Southwestern Speckled rattlesnake from Yuma county is a spectacular snake. So is a freshly shed juvenile river jack from Uganda. Suum cuique, indeed.
...even though I think that more people would go on safari in North America if the local prehistoric megafauna was still alive. American Lions & Giant Short-Faced Bears & Sabertooth "Tigers", oh my.Let alone giant ground sloths, glyptodons, Terror birds, giant beavers/camels/horses, mammoths, mastodons, teratorns, dire wolves...
Actually, there are now several known records from the late Pleistocene of Uruguay, admittedly of smaller taxa than genera such as Titanis and Phorusrhacos.
Of the other megafauna cited by Batto, the only ones which did not co-exist with Titanis, assuming it did not survive beyond the latest known date, were American Lion, Steppe Mammoth (which was contemporary with the last Titanis but hadn't reached North America yet), and the true Dire Wolf - although in this latter case, members of their lineage will have co-existed with the genus.
So the vast majority of the megafauna species cited *did* coexist with the North American Terror Bird!
Pleistocene891
Well-Known Member
It's highly likely that Batto thought of Smilodon Fatalis when mentioning saber tooth cat. But Titanis coexisted with Smilidon Gracilis, an animal the size of just a jaguar. Although yeah, the other species did exist with Titanis. Had a dumb brain fart.
Nope, he did not...
"Just" a jaguar
Other options extant in late-Pliocene and early-Pleistocene North America include Megantereon, Metailurus, Dinofelis and Xenosmilus - the latter of these was the second-largest of all saber-toothed cats, being exceeded only by Smilodon populator of South America.
Pleistocene891
Well-Known Member
I stand correctedNope, he did not...
AndyJ08
Well-Known Member
Unpopular opinion: I’m not a huge fan of the AZA. Some rare and endangered species such as Lion Tailed Macaques and Dusky Leaf Monkeys are being “phased out” for other species. Oftentimes it feels as if endangered, but more popular animals such as Red Pandas and African Penguins are being seen more and more at zoos, especially AZA facilities. However, I’m not saying that I hate the AZA, I just feel like some of their Species Survival Programs are flawed.
I feel like many, if not most of us on here agree with this
I feel like many, if not most of us on here agree with this
While I won't say there isn't anything to critique or quibble over when it comes to SSPs and TAG priorities, it's worth noting that a lot goes into the process of selecting program species that the general public doesn't necessarily see. It's almost never as simple as "Animal A is common but popular so program, Animal B is endangered but obscure so no program." Lots of factors are weighed: captive population, space availability, competition with similar species, genetics, conservation value, education or research value, popularity, husbandry expertise, ease of breeding, captive populations in other regions, government regulations... I could go on.
Again, that's not to say every decision made is necessarily perfect or unanimously agreed with... but IMO it's hard to know what to criticize when you don't have all the information. Food for thought
Aardwolf
Well-Known Member
I feel like folks on here ascribe way too much power to AZA, especially in terms of collection planning.
For example, lion-tailed macaques aren't disappearing from zoos because the TAG told zoos to stop working them them. It's the opposite. The TAG has decided to move on from that species because so many zoos decided that they didn't want to work with that species anymore (mostly for reasons which rhyme with "burpees"). The reimagined SSP program is meant to reflect the reality that it's the zoos, not the AZA, which is actually deciding what species are present within the collections.
Are there things that I wish were different? Absolutely. I wish there was more cohesive, collaborative collection planning across the region. In some ways things might be better - certainly more efficient - if there was a central authority planning out all AZA member collections. Instead we have 200-odd members each going off and doing their own thing.
For example, lion-tailed macaques aren't disappearing from zoos because the TAG told zoos to stop working them them. It's the opposite. The TAG has decided to move on from that species because so many zoos decided that they didn't want to work with that species anymore (mostly for reasons which rhyme with "burpees"). The reimagined SSP program is meant to reflect the reality that it's the zoos, not the AZA, which is actually deciding what species are present within the collections.
Are there things that I wish were different? Absolutely. I wish there was more cohesive, collaborative collection planning across the region. In some ways things might be better - certainly more efficient - if there was a central authority planning out all AZA member collections. Instead we have 200-odd members each going off and doing their own thing.
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Please take the time to learn why African penguins are more common in zoos. It's not just because they're easier to keep in much of North America due to liking warmer temperatures. This is something I posted in a thread earlier this year:
In addition to the 90% species decline since 1900, there was a 23% decline just from 2019-2021. The functionally extinct estimate in 2018 was for 2035 if nothing was done.
This decimation has been caused by a number of human-related things. They only live in a few areas now, right on major shipping routes, meaning oil spills. The Suez canal briefly being blocked last year, causing ships to go around Africa, likely caused an increase in deaths, for example. Ships tend to get fueled at sea - there's floating "gas stations", basically - which increases the chances of spills and brings them closer to the penguin populations. Spills and the massive amounts of commercial fishing are decimating the populations of what the penguins eat, additionally; this is probably the biggest cause of death for the species. Many are starving to death.
Diseases like avian flu have been a problem, too. They don't kill a lot of birds, but at this point anything causing multiple deaths is a concern.
African penguins live in large colonies, so the big decrease in colony size means more predation by other species, it's harder for them to find food because there's less birds going out in search of it, etc.
A lot is being done to try and save them! SANCCOB (SANCCOB | S A Foundation for the Conservation of Coastal Birds – SANCCOB saves African penguins and other threatened seabirds) is leading the way. With the help of Maryland Zoo, they've created artificial nests, which saves penguins the energy it takes to build them and gives them homes. African penguins make their nests out of guano, which humans have been harvesting for use as fertilizer. That, on top of there being a lot less penguins to generate the poop needed for nest making, resulted in a decrease in eggs being laid. These artificial nests were tested over and over to find a design that the penguins like best for nesting.
SANCCOB has several locations set up in South Africa for rescuing penguins from spills and other things. They have tons of stations within the permanent locations, and can take over warehouses if need be for major spills. It's not a matter of just cleaning the birds, either. Getting the oil off means the birds are no longer waterproof, so the birds have to be kept until their proper feathers come back, then get them adjusted to water again. This can take months per bird! They have trained "penguin rangers" who continually monitor colonies and elsewhere for any injured or oil covered birds (small spills often don't get reported), which are then brought in.
Much of the destruction has been to the South African populations, meaning the group in Namibia now makes up about 1/3 the total population. Until recently, there was nothing whatsoever being done to protect these birds! Jess Phillips, who is in charge of the colony at Maryland, teamed up with SANCCOB to find a suitable location site and set up an organization there. The site has multiple buildings, allowing for a few people to live there full time, along with housing visitors, providing veterinary care, etc. This means all colonies are now being monitored and cared for.
Jess has spent a lot of time over there, training people and helping set up things (plus helping save birds, of course). He's been training AZA people and putting together lists of those who can go over and help when the next major disaster occurs. Many of the keepers at Maryland have visited South Africa to help with the hands-on work. Even the zoo's general curator, Mike McClure, has gone over and worked on things like putting tracking tags on birds. Jess has also spent a heck of a time organizing fundraising, getting grants, and doing other things to raise money for SANCCOB.
I highly recommend visiting Maryland Zoo if you're interested in the conservation of these birds. Their exhibit is fantastic and there's plenty of signage about them, along with a few fairly cheap hands-on things you can do, like tossing them fish.
I probably should have looked up some links before typing all of that up instead of after, haha, but here's some anyway:
AZA feature article from last month - Waddle We Do Without Penguins?
Maryland Zoo blog post - To Save a Species | The Maryland Zoo
African Penguin SAFE (Saving Animals From Extinction) website - https://www.africanpenguinsafe.org/
SANCCOB overview about the species and what they're doing - Save The African Penguin – SANCCOB | S A Foundation for the Conservation of Coastal Birds
Website for the nest project, where you can sponsor one for $50 - https://www.savingpenguins.org/
AndyJ08
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the info! I wasn’t saying that I dislike African Penguins, but I just feel as if zoos often focus on species that draw a crowd other than obscure species that aren’t as well-known.
Sometimes that focus is for a reason, though. And while penguins overall may be popular animals, African penguins are pretty unknown; the general public doesn't know they can live in Africa (or Australia/NZ, or the Galapagos). They think all penguins live in Antarctica (or at the north pole...). Since they're thought of as animals that only live in super cold, desolate areas, they also don't know how threatened they are by human activity.
I have learned over a long time that the correct assumption is usually that animals that are not commonplace in zoos are not animals that would ever thrive under human care in the first place. Pretty much every animal you could conceivably question having a lack of presence is explained by either a lack of institutional interest, lack of sustainable breeding due to the previous and therefore availability, limited space, or some specialized needs that can't be met in human care. We are lucky to have an organization in the AZA that can manage all of this for us instead of seeing zoos take animals from the wild that will die in mere days as was once the norm.
Aardwolf
Well-Known Member
I will say, on the subject of penguins, that I wish that there was a little more diversity in representation, which is also the position of the Penguin TAG. Long before they really became endangered, Africans were so popular because they could be comfortably kept outside for much of the year, not succumb to disease as readily as cold-weather penguins (@TinoPup alluded to Maryland Zoo's successful program with African penguins - that was accompanied by unsuccessful attempts to keep rockhoppers and Adelie's in the old penguin exhibit as well). Plus, with so many zoos having African geographic areas, African penguins make sense.
If a zoo a) doesn't have geographic-themed limitations and - more importantly - b) has an indoor, climate-controlled exhibit, I wish that a few more would consider switching species. The great thing about colonial birds like penguins, puffins, and flamingos is that you only need a few holders to have a sustainable populations, unlike cranes or raptors, where each zoo basically keeps one pair. This is one of those times that I feel like if AZA had the power to say, "NO AFRICANS FOR YOU, you get Humboldts, or Magellanics, or gentoos," it might work better for sustainability
If a zoo a) doesn't have geographic-themed limitations and - more importantly - b) has an indoor, climate-controlled exhibit, I wish that a few more would consider switching species. The great thing about colonial birds like penguins, puffins, and flamingos is that you only need a few holders to have a sustainable populations, unlike cranes or raptors, where each zoo basically keeps one pair. This is one of those times that I feel like if AZA had the power to say, "NO AFRICANS FOR YOU, you get Humboldts, or Magellanics, or gentoos," it might work better for sustainability
Yeah, I want to say the current African Penguin population is something like 1,000 birds or a crazy high number like that. That population could be sustainable with a few hundred birds less. Even with no changes to the exhibits, it'd be great to see more zoos with Humboldts or Magellanics instead, as those species are also weather tolerant. Furthermore, both South American penguin species, while not endangered, aren't devoid of threats either (including some of the same threats- like human use of guano). There's still a conservation education element to be had with other penguin species, and zoos with other penguins can still contribute to African Penguin conservation.
Aardwolf
Well-Known Member
I remember back in the day when people were grumbling about how the Africans were sucking all of the oxygen out of the room when it was the Humboldt penguin that was the bird everyone felt was in the most need to conservation attention. All of that changed when the Treasure sank in 2000 and it seemed like every African penguin in the wild was covered in oil. That's when the narrative started to shift
Maryland keeps 100. Their large colony size is important for learning about wild birds, because in the wild they live in huge groups. Small groups in the wild aren't sustainable, they're much less likely to breed, can't find enough food, etc. Having the big group let them do things like testing out different man-made nests to see how the birds responded.